AvatarForm Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I was given my first Finecast mini on Saturday, the Dark Eldar Succubus: It took over an hour of cleaning up the very annoying mould lines and for this reason Im not sold on the resin already. It isnt terrible, but the right shoe had bubbles on the back and inside ankle. Bubbles are also present on the right arm; on some of the skulls on the trophy rack; and in other less-noticable areas. Im just glad these are easily apparent and not over important details. I would enjoy anyone PMing me how to fill these easily, as I think they are too small for GSing. This is also a very brittle resin. Not as brittle as some, but the flexing does not prevent tears which lead to breakages, as I discovered with the tassle on the spear. Im not hating them, but I do not see this as the revolution GW are pretending it is... Now for your entertainment: [ame] [/ame] *Pics to come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) For the small bubbles I suggest superglue (liquid, not gel). A very small drop should fill in the gap and strengthen it a bit too. Flash is probably the matter of cleaning technique. New material requires new approaches and I'm not sure if scraping (as GW suggests) is the best there is. I'm not going to waste scarce resources on experiments, but I bet someone will soon come out with something bright - unlike with metal, you can use heat or chemical substances to deal with the flash too. I think the love-hate relations (love of the game, hate for the high prices GW is asking for it) of Warhammer fans with GW is obscuring the obvious here. And the obvious is that this is something new and it will take some time for the teething pains to end. After GW figures it out, smaller manufacturers will take a dip too. There's no doubt this is the way of the future. If you look at it objectively, the detail is sharper than on metal minis (you can already notice it with really small detail - nipples, rings on fingers, ear rings etc.) and it will get better in future designs. The shock-resistance is matter of adjustments and so is the casting process, while the freedom of conversion and the ease of preparation beats metal in every way. Personally I don't like metal minis at all. Malifaux is my favorite game, but if Wyrd announced a switch to metal or a process similar to finecast (obviously after the quirks are ironed out), I'd be a much happier person. Edited June 20, 2011 by Q'iq'el Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvatarForm Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 For the small bubbles I suggest superglue (liquid, not gel). A very small drop should fill in the gap and strengthen it a bit too. Flash is probably the matter of cleaning technique. New material requires new approaches and I'm not sure if scraping (as GW suggests) is the best there is. Thanks for the tip, though the superglue will not fix bubbles that have taken a bite out of details. These will need to be re-sculpted, which Im glad is minimal on this cast and that I did not actually pay the AUD$26 for this. I think I will use a Miliputt and water wash to fill these though (thanks DarkAlleycat). I have been using the scraping technique recommended by GW... Im thinking I may need to find a fine wet/dry sandpaper for future. As to this material, it does not cut very well and is flexible like rubber in certain scenarios. Yes, the details are sharper. I am just glad none were obscured or destroyed by flaws, as the bubbles are on open surfaces, not details. In fact, if I do not fix the boot, I may just obscure it with foliage on the base. I like metal minis for 2 reasons. I can tell what is flash and what is an intentional part of the sculpt. Finecast has too many injection points and some appear on parts of the model that you would never expect. Also, unlike metals, the grid of moulds means that the9 blisters on the same shelf could have injection points on differing surfaces from eachother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borzag Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Mate, ask the boys on Oz Painters about how to do up a milliput wash. That should kill the bubbles without obscuring the detail, and is still sandable. Also, apparently cheapie scouring pads can kill mold lines on plastic (saw this at Turelio's the other day).... maybe worth trying on FineCa$t? Doubt that'll help on edges, but on any built up ridged areas (knuckles, odd spots in the leg armour etc) that might be worth looking at. Borzag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) As to this material, it does not cut very well and is flexible like rubber in certain scenarios. Yup, I have a Japanese made Zoid mini (not the machine, but the the spirit powering it) from like 10 years ago made of very similar stuff (rubery and flexible). If it is the same or similar stuff as GW uses, then there are 2 things that are absolutely amazing about this stuff (and I guess this is the main reason for my optimism as far as this material goes): - It is incredible how resistant this stuff is to abuse. The Zoid mini has been around my desk and shelves and in some cluttered boxes and not even the spindly wings have broken off. - The paint sticks to it better than any other material I have seen mini made of. Unless you coat it with varnish (which can crack and makes paint less elastic I think), there's no chance of paint chipping. But I can't be sure if it is the same stuff or not. The touch and feel are very similar though. I like metal minis for 2 reasons. I can tell what is flash and what is an intentional part of the sculpt. As many castrated Terror Tots will attest, metal is not a guarantee of that. Seriously though, the difficulties at telling what is the injection point and what is the design are clearly "design" problems and not material issue. Once GW gets the hang of the stuff, they'd probably go away (and the design changes to accommodate). Obviously smaller companies have no budget and no player base to conduct experiments like these, but once GW figures it out and it is more or less understood how they do it, it will be much easier for others to enter the same field. For the reasons mentioned above, I'm very hopeful of that. Edited June 20, 2011 by Q'iq'el Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvatarForm Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Mate, ask the boys on Oz Painters about how to do up a milliput wash. That should kill the bubbles without obscuring the detail, and is still sandable. Also, apparently cheapie scouring pads can kill mold lines on plastic (saw this at Turelio's the other day).... maybe worth trying on FineCa$t? Doubt that'll help on edges, but on any built up ridged areas (knuckles, odd spots in the leg armour etc) that might be worth looking at. Borzag Thanks Jose! I already asked there... no responses yet. Those scouring pads may help on my space wolves... but the finecast does not take well to cleaning... I became quite frustrated while cleaning this mini. As many castrated Terror Tots will attest, metal is not a guarantee of that. Seriously though, the difficulties at telling what is the injection point and what is the design are clearly "design" problems and not material issue. Once GW gets the hang of the stuff, they'd probably go away (and the design changes to accommodate). Obviously smaller companies have no budget and no player base to conduct experiments like these, but once GW figures it out and it is more or less understood how they do it, it will be much easier for others to enter the same field. For the reasons mentioned above, I'm very hopeful of that. I hope noone else takes up this material for their ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 That version of the downfall video is inspired, "diamonds and cocaine" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvatarForm Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Oh yeh... I accidentally copied the entire review, including the Downfall clip, into my Warseer thread and got banned for it... It wasnt meant to copy across when I posted it... le sigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Oh yeh... I accidentally copied the entire review, including the Downfall clip, into my Warseer thread and got banned for it... It wasnt meant to copy across when I posted it... le sigh Banned outright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Banned outright? There's a policy to ban outright anyone typing in "fine" and "cast" in the same post now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 That version of the downfall video is inspired, "diamonds and cocaine" indeed... diamonds and cocaine are the way forwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatnicguy Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Oh yeh... I accidentally copied the entire review, including the Downfall clip, into my Warseer thread and got banned for it... It wasnt meant to copy across when I posted it... le sigh Really!!? People need to harden up, that video was hilarious! I watched it twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 indeed... diamonds and cocaine are the way forwards Hurts if you get them confused though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pious Van Dorn Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 That is a sweet video... I wonder if Jarvis has seen it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattyted Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 To quote Q'iq'el; 'I think the love-hate relations (love of the game, hate for the high prices GW is asking for it) of Warhammer fans with GW is obscuring the obvious here. And the obvious is that this is something new and it will take some time for the teething pains to end' While I agree with you that Citadel seem to be having teething problems and hope the quality will improve, I am not sure that this argument works. Working with resin is not really something new for GW - Forge World have been turning out resin models for years. FW may be pricey but this has been worth it (relatively speaking) as the quality is consistently excellent. Certainly the scale of the operation is something new, but the problem seems to be not that production can't meet demand, but that quality control has taken a hit. I just hope they solve the problems before their reputation sinks too far. Personally, I prefer metal models. I like the reassuring weight of the model and the feeling that I have actually got something for my money. Makes it easier to justify the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvatarForm Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Really!!? People need to harden up, that video was hilarious! I watched it twice Apparently, penis jokes and other trolliing/veiled insults are allowed, but you post a video with language in it (subtitled, even) and its suddenly not-PG13... I guess NSFW now means Not Safe For Whineseer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoeRender Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I have to say I am not a fan of fine cast , the prep time is way harder IMO . And I never had a hard time converting metal models . But I like that they charge more for a cheaper material , especially when they have not mastered the technique yet .:thumpdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatnicguy Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Apparently, penis jokes and other trolliing/veiled insults are allowed, but you post a video with language in it (subtitled, even) and its suddenly not-PG13... I guess NSFW now means Not Safe For Whineseer Ha there was penis jokes in there?! Jeez I'm so desensitized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odinsgrandson Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 I think the love-hate relations (love of the game, hate for the high prices GW is asking for it) of Warhammer fans with GW is obscuring the obvious here. And the obvious is that this is something new and it will take some time for the teething pains to end. That's true, there will be teething pains, but a lot of companies have lost huge portions of the market by thinking that all of the complaining was just teething pains. Confrontation comes to mind. For as long as I've played games, all Warhammer players have been on the verge of quitting. But it used to be that you had to leave the hobby if you didn't want to play 40k. Oh, and they're releasing a new edition of Warhammer 40,000 next year (currently rumored, but GW rumors are pretty much always true). After GW figures it out, smaller manufacturers will take a dip too. There's no doubt this is the way of the future. If you look at it objectively, the detail is sharper than on metal minis (you can already notice it with really small detail - nipples, rings on fingers, ear rings etc.) and it will get better in future designs. The shock-resistance is matter of adjustments and so is the casting process, while the freedom of conversion and the ease of preparation beats metal in every way. Personally I don't like metal minis at all. Malifaux is my favorite game, but if Wyrd announced a switch to metal or a process similar to finecast (obviously after the quirks are ironed out), I'd be a much happier person. You know, I don't have any problem at all with a switchover to resin, but I am a little offended when Andy Hall wants to tell me that this is the best miniature I've ever seen. I've painted up one finecast harlequin so far, and I haven't seen one bit of difference in quality. And I looked for it pretty hard- before, during and after I applied paint. Maybe there are other sculpts that show a difference in quality, but the one on my table was exactly the same as the metal version, plus it had a bubble in the shuriken pistol. I pulled out a beautiful resin mini from Studio McVey, and the difference in detail was enormous. Yeah, the McVeys can get a pretty amazing amount of detail out of their resin casting process. But it can't just be the casting process that give them such high standards in miniature quality. Maybe the problem is that all of their sculpts/molds were designed for the detail you get from metal, and can't do the material justice. But either way, Andy Hall's statement had no basis in reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockist Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 I've bought the Chaos Marine Raptors in Finecast. They slot into my Night Lords using the Blood Angel codex (jump packs ftw!). I'm broadly in favour of the finecast that I bought; the jump packs and armour have vaned sections which would not come out in metal or plastic the way they did and there is no way I could see these bloody things standing up in metal (soo much weight on the bases!). As for fine cast in general I don't know. I'm massively in favour of the direction GW has been going in with plastic kits, tank kits with components for all the codex options are great and £60 for vampire knights is simply stupid. Personally I am planning to finish my current projects and play them to death while I build up my crews and a nifty Menoth force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Wall Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 This weekend I picked up a box of the Wracks, as I think the sculpts look amazing. However I must say that I absolutely hate the new material. The flexability of it makes me very skeptical of the durability for game play. I had several of the syringes on their backs break as a result of them being such a fine contact point, that they broke simply by being placed in a miniature case. I am yet to paint them, but so far, I have not enjoyed the new material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotokultaxe Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Totally agree with you, Inquisitor Wall. I put together my first finecast yesterday (new liche priest) and I also was very disappointed by the material. It is far more fragile than plastic, and ther is so much flash and mold lines that the risk of damaging the model are quite high. fAnd I do not recommend filing the mold lines. Even tiny strokes and you lose a lot of detail. I don't think that I will buy other finecast models in the near future. I guess I'll wait until GW gets the "recipe" right. And I understand Wayland games for boycotting such a problematic product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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