Neverborn very srtong all round

[pancake ss]

Ok with rising powers i have found neverborn more than ever are very strong in all area's. The last tourney at mealstrom all top 3 crews were Neverborn. Ok many of the crews were Neverborn but all the none Neverborn players, had hard times against a Neverborn crew. Whats people's opinions on this cheers.

[Sliver Chocobo]

The dreamer and Alp bomb is far too over powered at the moment

[Murphy'sLawyer]

My question is were the top players solid players or were they newer players that made common errors and still took the lead?

I know the Neverborn are solid but so are a number of other crews. Also the Neverborn have a number of sweet models that also make them desirable to play.

I guess what I am saying is are the Neverborn really OP or are the top tier players running them in tournaments making them seem more OP than normal?

[Ratty]

Also it is entirely possible it is due to the local Metagame.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I know right after Rising Powers came out we were running a League I was one of two Neverborn players that made it to the top rankings out of 16 players and the top four players were one from each main faction.

At least that is the way I remembered it.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Murphy'sLawyer

[magicpockets]

I placed second in this tourny and will expand on it later if it helps. few points for now though -

1) All the placed players (ukrocky, me and mythicfox) had a chat about whether neverborn were overpowered and kind of agreed that it was more down to knowing how to play them. However, when you know how to really play the models together NB do become a very powerful faction (compared to a stand and shoot or run and bash crew)

2) Mythic fox used LCB (ukrocky = collodi, me = pandora) and as far as i know he never alp bombed anyone. He beat them (and me!) with more class than that.

3) In the first maelstrom tourny the top players were all outcast crews - and that was after book two came out. Also, ukrocky won that one too but with Ophelia - maybe it's more down to the quality of the player than the crew?

4) For me, are neverborn overpowered? Yes and no, I more think they've got some tactics/synergies which experienced players know how to use that perhaps other crews lack. For example, burying madness and stitched with effect on them so the don't come off in the end close phase and are active the next time you place them (kudos to James for that gem). Using a doppleganger to copy unhealthy relationship and using two sorrows linked to her to get 4x emotional trauma in play. I've not seen so many synergies in another faction.

5) Many of the top players outside the top three were using a variety of crews and only just missed out on placing. Ant was running a VERY effective Kirai crew, Steve (newbiefromhell) was cleaning up with a Collette crew - I think it's more to do with luck on the day than a significant overpower on the part of the faction.

6) At the canterbury tourny I placed 3rd with Pandora and the top two places were none neverborn.

Yes NB are powerful, but I'm sure if the cards had gone a slightly different way or games had been drawn slightly differently that it would have been a more mixed top 3 - it's more about the experience and the skill of the player I think (I hope Craig doesn't read this ).

And for the record, I've moved to outcasts now (I'm looking at my 60ss Hamelin crew right now) and will be running them in tourny's from now on (and I think ukrocky is changing again too) - so I'm not arguing this for my own benefit Be interesting to see what happens at the next couple of events

Edited March 12, 2011 by magicpockets

[ukrocky]

Much quicker reply than mr.pockets!

Thanks for your kind words Adam but I don't really rate myself that well. As for neverborn, well they're the match up I always want to avoid. Add onto that I'm looking at my options for new crews, and, say Nicodem, I can't see how he'd beat many neverborn crews.

I think neverborn have the edge at the minute.

[Ace of Apes]

Well, I would say that anything said about overall game balance right now is - to some degree at least - conjecture, simply because the game isn't that big yet, meaning we're dealing with smaller and a bit isolated metas and a lack of tournament data.

That being said, though, I do think Neverborn have some of the strongest masters overall, and not a single one I'd say is sub-par, so I would agree that they're the strongest faction right now.

How far ahead they are I feel unable to say due to the reasons stated above, but yeah, they're really good.

(For the record, I consider myself a Neverborn player, although I don't play them as often as I used to these days thanks to Gremlins being good now and Collette being too much fun to resist.)

[Dolomyte]

Lilith and Pandora are two of the best masters in game, plus the neverborn have alot of cool looking models, so I would imaigne they have alot of players in alot of areas.

As a faction as a whole I would think they are the most powerful, however I think Colette is probably the best master in the game currently.

[nix]

The dreamer and Alp bomb is far too over powered at the moment

Can you expand on why this is? Alps are very easy to kill even after recording slow.

[pancake ss]

What the problem at the miniute is some crews have no answer to some crews, but neverborn can handle any crew they come up against. Ok the top 3 players at the tourney new thier stuff which made it even harder, but some crews sruggle alot against a neverborn master. I think they have the pick of the best minis at the mo. Which give's them the edge, this is just my opinion. PLus i'm pants LOL.

[Amarel]

Again, just using 'local meta' but round here Neverborn are considered the most powerful, and often the least fun to play against. We used to have more Neverborn than any other Faction, but most of them have moved to other Factions now to make the games more fun for everyone (theirs words, not ours ).

The remaining Neverborn player uses Zoraida (just make sure scenario doesn't allow for too many lines of sight the length of the board) and is about to try the Dreamer. He already only plays Lelu and Lilitu in 'result counts only' games.

[Fulgrima]

It does have alot to do with the players I played Craig in the main tournament and James in the hardcore challenge and Marcus fought a good fight but was eventually out matched. As they were both great players.

I think the main thing with the Neverborn is that even their weaker choices are actually quite good which does give alot of variety with few drawbacks.

[Amarel]

I think the main thing with the Neverborn is that even their weaker choices are actually quite good which does give alot of variety with few drawbacks.

Yup, and a few really stand-out powerful models.

The Cryx of Malifaux .

[Wulfen]

My question is were the top players solid players or were they newer players that made common errors and still took the lead?

I know the Neverborn are solid but so are a number of other crews. Also the Neverborn have a number of sweet models that also make them desirable to play.

I guess what I am saying is are the Neverborn really OP or are the top tier players running them in tournaments making them seem more OP than normal?

I can tell you right now that Neverborn are just that, overpowered. I won't get into details, but there was much debate about this in another format.

Locally, we don't have many regular Neverborn players, and there's a reason for this. I love the fluff and theme of the Neverborn, but man they are just generally un-fun to play against.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I can tell you right now that Neverborn are just that, overpowered. I won't get into details, but there was much debate about this in another format.

Locally, we don't have many regular Neverborn players, and there's a reason for this. I love the fluff and theme of the Neverborn, but man they are just generally un-fun to play against.

Not sure why you quoted me or why you don't want to defend your statement like it is a fact or something but I am still going to have to see this for myself.

You and your buddies may have had some discussions but that does not mean you guys have got it right.

Neverborn are a solid faction all around, but I still have to be convinced that it is OP. I have even been thinking of combos for other faction lists, that I would like to run, that are on par with the majority of what the Neverborn can bring.

[wrabbit37]

I can tell you right now that Neverborn are just that, overpowered. I won't get into details, but there was much debate about this in another format.

Why won't you get into details and in what other format was there a debate?

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Why won't you get into details and in what other format was there a debate?

Either his friends or a 40k forum.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I will say this; The Neverborn are fully supported, unlike some masters from other factions, so even if they come out with more models there is almost no way to beat the synergy they already have. So new models, aside from dolls, will seem like wasted releases.

Now other factions have been getting SOLID models with book 2 and I expect book 3 will not disappoint anyone.

So Wulfen unless you work for a professional game testing company, or are game testing for Wryd directly, I am not sure why you think the discussion is over.

(And if you are game testing for Wyrd it maybe wise to just let it go. It is tough knowing what is going to be happening before the rest of us.)

Edited March 14, 2011 by Murphy'sLawyer

[Hookers]

meh neverborn smeverborn. 3 Wp crews and lilith, big whoop.

they are still living for the most part. the biggest thing for them was that nightmares aren't living. ... oh and you're just minding your own business... and... OMG ALPS WHY SO SLOW?! NEGATIVE FLIPS! IT HURTS!

gremlins have a hard time with them but i don't see why other factions would have an overly difficult time. in fact outcasts as a whole can deal with them fine. gremlins just don't like having to look at their Wp. ("what's the Wp on that?" "....um.... do i have to tell you?")

[ProdigalPunk]

Part of the problem is that I can do other things that are worse with other factions, but it will come off as "cheesy". Turn a 2 ss model into a 11 ss one on turn one, no problem for McM and a little help from his friends, but people will cry out.I think all Neverborns brokenness is sort of built in, so it gets overlooked.

They are also more or less the army of elites. They have very powerful high points models that can do a lot, and even though they cost a lot, you get more then what you pay for I think. The game is set up to support that style more so then hordes and middle cost models. The stratagies seem to favor the Neverborn style more then the other play styles.

Finally in my opinion Neverborn stuff seems to run cheaper then other stuff. It sort of runs opposite of other factions. I think in a vacuum some stuff might be priced right, but with all the synergy they end up being more powerful then the points would give them credit for. Look at Night Terrors vs Alps for example, and answer why they cost the same. Stitched Together probably being my biggest complaint, on paper they might seem like 5 ss, but in practice that seems a little low.

I don't think that the Neverborn are so OP that they can not be beaten, but I do think they are on the beneficial side of the bell curve on pretty much anything. The only thing I could see them lacking in is shooting, but they are either fast enough that it does not matter or they have effects that are basically fair substitutes.

[Wulfen]

Either his friends or a 40k forum.

Are we going to resort to insults? I don't play 40K, thank you very much.

I'm not going to get into this; it's a slippery slope and I have no desire for this to degrade further into some stupid flame war. Believe what you will; I have my opinions, as do you.

[wrabbit37]

Are we going to resort to insults? I don't play 40K, thank you very much.

I'm not going to get into this; it's a slippery slope and I have no desire for this to degrade further into some stupid flame war. Believe what you will; I have my opinions, as do you.

I'm sorry if I offended you (I know I wasn't the one who said the 40k thing, but I did ask you to clarify your position). I wasn't trying to frustrate you - I legitimately wanted to hear your opinion since it's clear it's a subject you've discussed before. It's not a subject that's really come up in our playgroup before, so it was surprising to me to hear someone so adament that it was true. Simply wanted your reasons is all.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Are we going to resort to insults? I don't play 40K, thank you very much.

I'm not going to get into this; it's a slippery slope and I have no desire for this to degrade further into some stupid flame war. Believe what you will; I have my opinions, as do you.

Sorry, that was suppose to be a joke because it would be funny if they were discussing other game system's game balance.

But yes we are entitled to our own opinions. As of now me and my meta tend to disagree with you. Not trying to insult, just wanted you to elaborate if there were any obvious reasons that make you think what you do.

But if you don't want to discuss it I understand. It just doesn't make for good debate.(sorry I like a good back and forth.)

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Perdita and family can take neverborn pretty easily. They usually have fewer models so it is easy to out activate. Their beat sticks usually have low defense. High WP helps a whole heck of a lot either against wp tests or the large quantity of terrifying models.

Their synergy is a lot harder to understand for players who haven't tried them. They are no way OP. Out of all the factions I feel all the masters play the most like each other than any other factions. As for Tourney settings, any faction can make an anti-neverborn crew, and they are much easier to prepare against since it is easier to have a good idea of what you are up against. You are either going to face lost of melee or lots of willpower. Zoradia is their biggest wild card and even then she has to pay a premium to use it.

Outcast faction has the most diveristy of play styles and therefore arguably the best faction in a Tourney. You have an decent summoner - levi. You have probably best shooter army, gremlins on top of being second best swarm. Best swarm and and crew control goes to Hamelin. 3rd best melee master goes to Vicks. This does make them an overpowered crew, but anyone who has mastered the outcasts will have a distinct advantage in a faction only tourney. This is balanced by their 0 ss cache.