tadaka Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 My one disappointment is that kidnap has not changed, but you cna't win them all. -Heretic That sucks kidnap is way 2 easy vs some crews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WUWU Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Wow, this is actually pretty big and a very good call, IMHO. Yep, I agree completely. Kel mentioned it in this thread: http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18774&page=2 I haven't seen the rest of the book, but this might be the biggest change in the rules. Very good call. I'm glad to be playing this game right now, and can't wait to get the new rule book. Wyrd has really got a winner going right now. Edit: Have any of the schemes changed in regards to killing your own models? Like Kill Protege for example, if your opponent declares that scheme and you kill your highest point minion, do you still deny your opponent the VP? Edited February 28, 2011 by WUWU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 That sucks kidnap is way 2 easy vs some crews. didn't someone say that things like Cophrees and models used for summoning have been cleared up in relation to Strategies and Schemes.. Still working blind as I don't have the book yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 didn't someone say that things like Cophrees and models used for summoning have been cleared up in relation to Strategies and Schemes.. Still working blind as I don't have the book yet. I am pretty sure the clarification is in slaughter only, which is worded as such: <snip for brevity> Models with no Soulstone cost who enter play by replacing another model(s) are worth the Soulstone cost of the model(s) they replaced.<snip for brevity> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Wow missed the immediate fall back rule. That is a big change althought it makes book keeping a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Wow missed the immediate fall back rule. That is a big change althought it makes book keeping a lot easier. Yup! Makes things really interesting in some cases and certainly tweaks some long establish strategies huh? ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darguth Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Wasn't climbing also changed from the old (1) action so that it can be performed as part other movements, just at a 2:1 ratio of movement? I.E. I can use a (1) Walk action as part of that action some of my movement can be spent climbing and the rest of it on normal horizontal movement across flat terrain? Or had that been changed previously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talishko Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Immediate fall back is good news. I didn't like losing 2 activations on this, also it was silly when someone was meant to fall back in the last turn and it just never happened. Now it will actually work as a strategic tool. I am pretty sure the clarification is in slaughter only, which is worded as such: I don't quite get it... So if I cut up a zombie chihuahua and make a flesh construct, will it be worth... a: 1 SS as the parts came from a 1 SS model; b: 7 SS as this would be it's original cost; c: 0 SS as it did not replace any other model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I don't quite get it... So if I cut up a zombie chihuahua and make a flesh construct, will it be worth... a: 1 SS as the parts came from a 1 SS model; b: 7 SS as this would be it's original cost; c: 0 SS as it did not replace any other model? 7 SS. The part about it costing the same as what it replaces specifically refers to times when there is no soulstone cost listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Wow missed the immediate fall back rule. That is a big change althought it makes book keeping a lot easier. And makes it less broken in general and stops pages of complaining on here. Any changes to hold out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Soooo, where can I get the book? I'm a European and I haven't seen it in the Malifaux shop initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Soooo, where can I get the book? I'm a European and I haven't seen it in the Malifaux shop initially. It's still on it's way out to a lot of LGS's here in the states so it's probably on a slow boat over to you all now (or at least I hope it is ><). Keep your eyes open for it, but probably going to be... what another week or two? Not sure usually how far Europe lags behind on releases.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talishko Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 7 SS. The part about it costing the same as what it replaces specifically refers to times when there is no soulstone cost listed. Thanks, that's clear then. I've got 3 questions regarding Mindless Dead (summonable 'free' models): 1- How many SS are they worth if they came from counters on the board? Do I have to make note of every model that dies and assign it to counters? 2- How does it work with mortimer's corps counters that he digs out? 3- what about different base sizes? a mature nephilim drops 3 corpse counters, nico raises 3 mindless dead. Are they all worth the cost of the mature neph, or third of it (if so, how do I divide)? Sorry if the questions are silly or explained in the manual, unfortunately I don't have it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks, that's clear then. I've got 3 questions regarding Mindless Dead (summonable 'free' models): 1- How many SS are they worth if they came from counters on the board? Do I have to make note of every model that dies and assign it to counters? 2- How does it work with mortimer's corps counters that he digs out? 3- what about different base sizes? a mature nephilim drops 3 corpse counters, nico raises 3 mindless dead. Are they all worth the cost of the mature neph, or third of it (if so, how do I divide)? Sorry if the questions are silly or explained in the manual, unfortunately I don't have it yet. Mindless zombies are not replacing other models, they're replacing tokens. So they wouldn't have a soulstone cost from how I'm reading the book. Relevant passage (pg 93): "Models with no Soulstone cost who enter play by replacing another model(s) are worth the Soulstone cost of the model(s) they replaced." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talishko Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Ah I see, it is irrelevant then... It will come in to effect for Empty vessel, where the killed model is replaced by mindless dead instead of leaving counters. Empty Vessel: After killing a living or Undead defender with a Cane Strike or Decay, place a number of Mindless Zombies equal to the defender’s base size in base contact with the defender before it is removed from play. Defender does not generate Corpse Counters. So last question: if I mercilessly slay Killjoy with Nicodem (yh right..) how does the point cost split to the punk zombies? Will they each be worth 11SS? Edited March 1, 2011 by Talishko typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Ah I see, it is irrelevant then... It will come in to effect for Emty vessel, where the killed model is replaced by mindless dead instead of leaving counters. And Coryphees becomind a duet. All kinds of things like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 This doesn't make any difference to empty vessel, that is not replacing the model with another one. You are placing models. I think it currently only effects Corphyee duets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talishko Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Fair enough, so much about all my speculation. Thanks for clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 What others have said. You are already getting the Slaughter points when you kill a model and hit it with Empty vessel. This was more in place to fix the problem where a Duet Cophee didn't give you any points since it was purely a summoned model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboStele Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Wow, interesting about the Falling Back. I think we had always assumed you fell back immediately anyways, haha. I'm still curious about the Elevated Terrain stuff and the Shadow. How does that work if the piece on top of the terrain is standing right at the edge? The book doesn't seem to be real clear on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 From the way I read it. The blind spot is there regardless of where the model is on the terrain. So even if you are on the edge hanging off...You still can't see below you. It might not make that much sense logically but I see if as a balance factor for sniper models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Yeah. We went round and round and round on issues like this. Ultimately we settled in on a version that has an element of realism ("How can your model on top of the building even see me while I'm against the wall?!") with ease of gameplay and mechanic remembering ("It's just a shadow that's as deep as the wall is tall"). The game still needs to be quick and fluid and playable without getting into quantum physics and geometric triangulations. Hopefully this will work. And likely not come into play a whole hell of a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darguth Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 The way I read it was that if a model was within 1" of the lip of the elevated terrain piece they ignore the "Shadow" blocking line of sight. Did I misread that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) hmm....like I said, this was discussed at pretty great length. I'll need to dig out my book to see where it ended up but this was certainly one of the discussion points.... (going to get my book....) (Oh, I see Sketch is here....hopefully he'll just answer. He's far more of an authority than me on issues like this anyway. ) NM: here's the relevent bullet: A model on top of a flat elevation may draw LoS to a target completely or partially within the shadow if the model is within 1" of the elevation's edge closest to the target Edited March 1, 2011 by nerdelemental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I haven't seen the book, but the way Darguth puts it is the way Keltheos described it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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