Doctor Amos Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 But was that because or in spite of the scantily-clad personages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I was saying the art direction as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I somehow doubt Lady Justice would be the best selling box set if players didn't like the way her model looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Malifaux is hugely popular, for a game that has existed for under 2 years. The new rulebook has had far more pre-orders than expected. Honestly, I'm curious here. How does Malifaux compare to Warmachine and Infinity in terms of popularity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 That is exactly what i ran in to when I started the game I looked at lady j and thought dude she looks cool as hell. Local store was out when I went in to pick up my set tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I can only speak for my local area but I have never sceen any one play Infinity but its on the shelf. Warmahords is more popular but they have a few years on malifaux at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I can only speak for my local area but I have never sceen any one play Infinity but its on the shelf. Warmahords is more popular but they have a few years on malifaux at this point. Yeah, I honestly haven't seen anyone play Infinity either, but at the two-year mark, it seemed like Warmachine was far more widely-played than Malifaux is now. Just curious if there's any statistics backing things up one way or t'other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WUWU Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Warmachine isn't really a fair comparison though, as their entire business model is based on piggybacking off the long time success of Warhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 It's a silly comparison anyway, at least in the context we're discussing. Even if it was bigger, are you really going to argue that Malifaux's cleavage is what made that difference? Seriously? Not to mention that Warmachine had its fair share of skin. All of the Cryxian female warcasters show just as much, if not more, as the Malifaux females do. Most of the others don't, but that has more to do with the nature of the fluff and warcaster armor than anything else (and even then, they manage to have quite impressively-sized armored bras). Once Hordes comes along, there's plenty of skin to go around. I'm actually baffled that anyone would find Malifaux somehow offensive in its portrayal of women. It's a world where female figures are the equal of males in every way. Are they a bit idealized? Sure. But the idea that they should be covered up and demure is about control too. The power suits mentioned earlier did not come to be based solely on female preferences. Feminism means different things to different people - even to feminists. If you don't like the (rather modest) amount of skin shown, that's your choice. But projecting your preferences as the only possible interpretation of the game and its portrayal of women is simply wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eturns Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 My wife has no issue at all with the portrayal of the females in Malifaux, she was looking at the website when I was trying to pick my first crew and loved all the models, especially Colette, Viktoria, Miranda. She then read the book when it arrived to get a better understanding of the background and I am now under instructions to buy Colette and the showgirls as she really wants to paint them and play with them. When I was telling her about some of the comments on this thread even she commented on how the models are supported by the fluff and that yes they probably are going to be a bit sexy but what do you expect when miniatures games are played by 70% men? The easiest thing? Play with the models you want, if things offend you find a group of like minded people and start your own group with your own code of conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katcher Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Ok, ok, couldn´t resist... To compare the popularity Infinity x Malifaux around here - Malifaux is more popular, because people like the setting. So around here is more fans od victorian horror western than anime cyberpunk. Buth both comunities are growing quite fast despite the "hate" from Warhammerers aka "Another silly little game, that will die again, ywn, you should play warhammer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poko Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I can only speak for my local area but I have never sceen any one play Infinity but its on the shelf. Warmahords is more popular but they have a few years on malifaux at this point. Which in turn makes anecdotal evidence rather poor gauge of popularity. If I were to go by my local scene, I'd say Infinity is blooming, and malifaux will fold in a few months, because only a handful of people play it in comparison, and of those a few more dropped the game and think of Helldorado instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Earlier in the year Malifaux came 3rd in a poll of games people were "into" on a rather popular gaming website. below 40k and Warmachine but above Hordes and WFB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 BTw I'm a LARPer. To be absolutely honest the clothing in Malifaux is quite conservative compared to some of the outfits I've seen women choose to wear. Taby is a friend of mine who make costumes and weaponry, these are some of the costumes she has been commisioned to make for people. http://www.artyfakes.co.uk/Photo-shoots.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Cool costumes! That Barbarian Babe outfit is similar to what the girls wear around town on a friday night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Cool costumes! That Barbarian Babe outfit is similar to what the girls wear around town on a friday night! Yeah Taby is a bit of a Lambrini girl to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'm actually baffled that anyone would find Malifaux somehow offensive in its portrayal of women. It's a world where female figures are the equal of males in every way. Are they a bit idealized? Sure. But the idea that they should be covered up and demure is about control too. The power suits mentioned earlier did not come to be based solely on female preferences. The models are equal stat-wise, but that's about it. Females are shown as victims of abuse (Kirai, Rasputina, Colette, Molly) and workers in the sex trades (Kirai, Sybelle and Colette, who may have never "stooped that low" but seems to employ her girls as such). In comparison, are there any horrifically abused male characters in Malifaux (outside of the Lelu, who is another thing altogether)? Are there any former sex-trade workers? The closest you get to a male with a bad life is Hoffman, and even that is due to random luck rather than the machinations of others. The outfits are one thing--yes, they get awfully titillating for the purpose of titillation. However, in the background, while some of the female characters show themselves to be the equal to the males, there's still quite a few victims and/or whores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Entertaining thread I must admit. All comes down to personal tastes. Some of those miniatures folks are having fits over were actually developed by females and they get a collective laugh here in the office from the ladies whenever someone makes mention of them. That includes Taelor, whom originally had a full on shirt before the ladies said 'no .. try this' and we did. There isn't a disconnect between writing, artwork or miniature sculpting, as that all comes through my desk, if not outright written or sketched by myself at times. Funny enough, the dead hookers, Rotten Belles, are usually what have women coming into the booth to look over and laugh with, and nine out of ten who leave the booth have them in hand along with many of our other female miniatures/groups. It has been something that I've observed and marked the trend on over the last few years with some serious bemusement. I won't try to high brow or belittle anyone here in the least as everyone is most welcome to their opinion and reactions will most certainly vary. Still .. no problem you can't solve with a pile of dead hookers. :angel: Thanks for replying Nathan. It just seems a shame that when there's so many strong female characters in the fluff, they are mostly depicted in a certain way. Perhaps a little variation in the future ? Either that or start upping the count of 'strong' male ex-hookers in thongs to redress the balance I bought Rising Powers the other day, and interestingly Lord Chompy Bits may be the one to sell it to my girlfriend. Not sure what that says about her ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Well the miners have been horribly misused by both the Guild and the M&SU. Ramos is using Rasputina to attack his own followeres so he can use it against the guild. I would say that Colette has more control over her own life than a lot of the male inhabitents of Malifaux, most are indentured slaves to the guild. Hamelin was brutally killed and reanimated. Hans has had quite a bad life, same with Hoffman. I don't think you can really compare characters to modern gender roles anyway. It's a Victorian setting. I know there is a RP game system where the only female characters that can be adventurers have either got to have no male relatives or be widows, as any other female in a Victorian setting would not be socially allowed the autonomy to do so. If you look at something like League of Extrordinary Gentlemen (the graphic novel not the film) The only female character is Nina and the only reason she is allowed to do what she does is that she is already a social outcast due to her affair with a foreign gentleman. The guild masters are all empowered females. Sonnia is inteligent and ruthless, Perdita is the matriarch of a family, Lady Justice is completely above the rules. Colette might be in the sex industry but she definitely uses it as a weapon. Viktoria is a mercenary and answers to no-one. All the Neverborn masters are very strong female architypes, to be honest they are based on the most strong historical female architypes. Kirai, Molly and the Belles are very much the victim, but they are hardly the majority of characters. Edited February 24, 2011 by Ratty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poko Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 there's still quite a few victims and/or whores. The game IS set in XIX/early XX century, if there weren't any I'd say the game is anachronistic. Again, the game is set in a border town/slumcity, and women are either good housewives, powerful cutthroats and magicians, or victims, that's how it works. The men in the game, apart from the ones in power, like Ramos or Lucius, are also mostly runaway bandits, ex-miners and generally treated as shit not worth a second glance from honest people, except maybe to call the guards on the ruffians. Again, it'd be downright silly if those men were treated with respect when they're low-paid or downright convict workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat_Canis Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think that a lot of people misinterpret Colette. Yes she runs a burlesque theater, yes there might be some shady back room dances from time to time, but what she did was get women who were just whores on the street and gave them safety and a place to make money without sleeping around. There is a reason they get all the newbies on stage and kick them off when they are so drunk cause they will remember a good time and paid fore that much booze. Is she and Cassandra a sex symbol, yes they are but so are many women we watch on TV, do they give it out not that I can see. Yes this game has some more out there models with oh no some cleavage showing and bad proportions but in real life there is Sport Illustrated Swimsuit edition with Cleavage showing and bad proportions. I think this is the 2nd best game at portraying women the first being Warmachine where women are strong and appropriately dressed for the job they are doing, there are also almost just as many women as men. The ones I keep seeing up here as terrible are Colette: Strong women really doesn't show anything off, Kirai: Tragic love story she was living for what she wanted most and the mans father couldn't take it. But to have a character that controls spirits you have to have something happen. Rasputina: WTF she is the strongest women I have seen she took one of the old powers and said you mine now, then pimp slapped him. She is also dressed just fine for what she is and where she lives. For the bib boobs on models I have addressed it earlier but if you want to see more outlandish outfits just go to south beach. The guild all properly dressed for the job Criid in city business, Purdita out in the hot sun jeans and a tee-shirt, Lady-J in some leather for movement when she hunts. Archanists: Really properly dressed, Rasputina in boots and a hat but she can't feel cold. Colette she works in the theater so has to keep up appearances. Undead well all are undead so they get told what to do who cares. Neverborn: They are big monsters they do what they can/want to do and no one is saying Zoraida is a sexy and she is wearing the least clothes. Outcasts: Well one Viki wears a coat the other viki is a doppelganger who well wouldn't care. If I am wrong and you got to the end of the wall of text tell me so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Outcasts: Well one Viki wears a coat the other viki is a doppelganger who well wouldn't care. I always thought it was the other way around because the Sword Mistress is the Red Joker and the Bounty Hunter the Black Joker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat_Canis Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I always thought it was the other way around because the Sword Mistress is the Red Joker and the Bounty Hunter the Black Joker. I might be forgetting the story but there is only one Masumase(sp?) which would be the Viki with one and the gun. Also in Malifaux are neverborn good or bad luck. Plus well we don't know who is who. They very well could have just picked the 2 sword one cause it looks more the part on the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurry Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 i always thought the bounty hunter was the actual Vik because it mentions her having a sword and gun and her job earthside was as a bounty hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 The ones I keep seeing up here as terrible are Colette: Strong women really doesn't show anything off, Kirai: Tragic love story she was living for what she wanted most and the mans father couldn't take it. But to have a character that controls spirits you have to have something happen. Rasputina: WTF she is the strongest women I have seen she took one of the old powers and said you mine now, then pimp slapped him. She is also dressed just fine for what she is and where she lives. I don't see why Kirai and Colette get as much hate as either Kirai might of started off as a prostitute, but her story is more about revenge than sex, yes she was a sex worker but that just more fuel to her fire, she's angry the world has beteen her and used her in countless different ways and now it's her time to lash out aganist that world that treated her so badly Colette is not a prostitute. She has too much pride too stoop so as to do that. Also she's the biggest celebrity in Malifaux and is strong women, that has a likeable personality. Also she famous for her magic show. Yes her girl are strippers, but she's looks after them a lot. So yes sex in a part of how she is, but it's not the biggest or neather does it diffine her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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