tattyted Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 new to Malifaux - got both the rule books and a few minis(Zoraida, Pandora and Sonnia boxes, teddy, doppleganger, executioner and convict gunslinger). What am struggling with is the vast amount of errata, corrections, v2 cards (I have checked and have a v2 Candy card but all the rest are unmarked so assume V1) and clarifications that seem to be floating around. I note in particular LInk which seems to change every time I look. The total number of pages dealing with these seems to be more than the actual number of rules pages in the rule books (if you discount the fluff)! Several questions - where can i find a definitive set of corrections covering all the errata and card changes? (ie one that I can print off and use for the next few games without argumenrts about changes). I may be missing something but at moment I seem to be jumping about between threads which seem to contradict each other. If the promised revised set of rules is going to be available to download then is it also going to come with any kind of guarantee that the rules as they are written will remain in force for a bit longer? Having paid out a lot of money for both books and now worrying that I could have learnt the mechanics for free. Finally WTF with the replacement cards? I have to first off post at my expense my cards to America, then buy an international reply coupon which lets Wyrd send me replaecements free of postage to them? again -am I missing something here? I am sorry that this post goes against the generally positive feel fo the Wyrd site, but not feeling very impressed. Brilliant game but so much hastle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Well as far as the replacement cards, its because things have been updated! Updates happen my friend and you should not get angry over them. Wyrd is a new company and still growing out all it's limbs so the first release of everything is going to have flaws. They at least were good enough to us to release these updated V2 cards. Now if you look around on the forums you will notice there are several posts that give you all the information you need. This is the V2 Card thread INCLUDING Pdfs of the updated cards. If it is not here, it does not have a major update or has not been released yet: http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17608 Second you have the Stickied Errata and Extra Errata threads here: http://wyrd-games.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=59 These two together give you everything you need to play with the changes and updates to the game at this moment. Really this is ALL you have to worry about. The current version of the rules have been in place for over a year, going on a year and a half, maybe longer. That's not bad at all for V1 of a game from a new company. Especially a game as complex as Malifaux. So I think they did rather well with that. The new Rules Manual will be in play for the foreseeable future. No one can guarantee you anything because well... I at least have no figured out how to see into the future =) Wyrd may have though... they are weird. But I am sure Wyrd is doing their absolute best to try and make this Rules Manual the golden record for a while to come. They are certainly not happy with the way things came out, thats why they are trying to fix things. So please, don't think they don't care about them because they most certainly do. They have never done us (the players) wrong and strive to fix any mistakes which happen. They are one of the best on the spot companies I have ever dealt with. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask ;D Edited January 18, 2011 by karn987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I guess my best advice to you would be to play the game and just enjoy it. You do not need every piece of updates and errata and FAQ to play the game and have fun. Play on whatever level your local groups and LGS choose to play at. If you guys want to use it all, then you will have to dig a bit to find every scrap of rulings and updates, but thats your choice. I heavily recommend just sticking to the V2 updates, Errata, FaQ, and the Extra Errata. Thats honestly not that much and after a few games, you will have it all down no problems I'm sure =) But play to have fun and don't stress about the rest. To many people let themselves get wrapped up in it all. Just play to have fun, enjoy the game, and don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Don't bother too much about the FAQ, I don't think it really contains any new rulings. Also half of the Erratas are superceeded by the V2 cards, ie. only use the changes to the core rules. The upcoming rule handbook will make the rest of the errata redundant aswell. There have been a -few- changes to some of the Book2 profiles, but just go by what the actual cards says, I think all the changes have been caught in them before they were printed, so there's no problems unless you proxy alot. Soeh.. Core Rules - Book1 + Errata (Book2 contains expanded encounter system which can be used instead of the one in Book1 and the rules for Henchmen/RoE - the extra errata thread contains only 3 entries that are still relevant and can easily be added to the errata) Models - V2 cards (or for Book2 models just the cards as there's no V2 for those) If you encounter a problem with the rules interactions just make a quick decision and stop by the forum afterwards and ask so you'll know how it works in the future. Which is quite manageable if you ask me (and considerable less references than your typical GW game which'll take about 3 different books and a pdf for each of them). Edit: And... Paying for shipping to get new cards is the least thing you can do, no? Wyrd pays for the cards and the man-hours it takes on their part. Edited January 18, 2011 by Wodschow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattyted Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 karn many thanks for prompt response. I am sorry I sounded 'hacked off' but it was frustration that caused it. Malifaux is brilliant - in fact i would go as far as genius and I really, really love it, but just had to sound off. Maybe I could refine my points to a couple of pleas firstly - leave LINK alone! ( trouble I have is that when you say the rules have been in place for over a year and a half -yes the basic mechanics have but the actual detail?) second - even if I follow your link to the errata - that narrows it down, but I still have to read 2 threads - the official faq and errata, then the extra errata items and even then I am not sure because I read threads in other sections - resolved rules and then Rising Powers resolved rules spring to mind, and they refer to errata and then to corrected errata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattyted Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 woodschow Yet again I grovel in apologies............... I could have sworn that the thread said cards would be replaced for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 The whole Link thing was a complex issue and has been corrected. Just take it as is for now and it should not be changed again it looks. =) As for the other part.... you gotta just read man. So what if it's 2 threads? Thats not even much to read or keep track of. As for rulings etc in other threads, just look at the ones that relate to your models. Big things will hit the Extra Errata thread, like the fix for Superior Undead. So you can mostly just ignore those if you don't want to read through a lot of stuff. Btw the Cards are 100% free to replace =) But the shipping is a whole different part that they really can't help. Im sure they are already out a bunch of money just for the free cards. If you have a Henchmen in your area, talk to them. They have a way to help you out if they read their forum section ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattyted Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 wrote a whole big response on this then got told I was locked out- whole thing deleted. basically-to quote; As for the other part.... you gotta just read man. So what if it's 2 threads? Thats not even much to read or keep track of. As for rulings etc in other threads, just look at the ones that relate to your models. Big things will hit the Extra Errata thread, like the fix for Superior Undead. So you can mostly just ignore those if you don't want to read through a lot of stuff. YES - I get that! Read through the threads- then read through the other thread, then read through the other threads, then have your opponent quote a thread which you havent read . Thats what we have to do! why stop at 2 threads, or 3 or 4. Which is the definitive thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Well obviously in an ideal world there shouldn't be any threads that you'd have to read through at all. Mistakes happen however and when they're found I think it's better that they're actually corrected and not just left there for what seems an eternity (like in several other game systems). People also continously happen to stumble across new rule interactions though and wish to have those clarified. My suggestion to you: Don't bother with erratas/rules discussion forum at all. No offense meant, but if you think it's too much to check the forums once in a while, then just don't. Play with the rules in the books and on the cards. You encounter a problem - you solve it amongst yourselves agreeing on what seems most fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 wrote a whole big response on this then got told I was locked out- whole thing deleted. basically-to quote; As for the other part.... you gotta just read man. So what if it's 2 threads? Thats not even much to read or keep track of. As for rulings etc in other threads, just look at the ones that relate to your models. Big things will hit the Extra Errata thread, like the fix for Superior Undead. So you can mostly just ignore those if you don't want to read through a lot of stuff. YES - I get that! Read through the threads- then read through the other thread, then read through the other threads, then have your opponent quote a thread which you havent read . Thats what we have to do! why stop at 2 threads, or 3 or 4. Which is the definitive thread? There is not one. But the ones that I have listed and Woodschow has to, will give you all the core stuff that you need. You can stop there and be 100% fine. Or you could keep going and read more and more. It all depends on how much time you want to invest and when you want to stop and find the game fun. Thats the key man, stop when you find the game FUN. If looking all this up is no fun for you (which it seems to be) then just stick with the core material and wait for major changes like the Rules Manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 wrote a whole big response on this then got told I was locked out- whole thing deleted. basically-to quote; As for the other part.... you gotta just read man. So what if it's 2 threads? Thats not even much to read or keep track of. As for rulings etc in other threads, just look at the ones that relate to your models. Big things will hit the Extra Errata thread, like the fix for Superior Undead. So you can mostly just ignore those if you don't want to read through a lot of stuff. YES - I get that! Read through the threads- then read through the other thread, then read through the other threads, then have your opponent quote a thread which you havent read . Thats what we have to do! why stop at 2 threads, or 3 or 4. Which is the definitive thread? Errata in threads is annoying. It should be in one place. But things are the way they are. If it helps any, I have bitched enough for the both of us on the subject. However, the new rules manual will fix that. And as for the V2 cards, I'm printing them out, cutting them out, and pasting them on my old cards. I'm not even going to bother with shipping, and I live in the states. But, of course, I do work in an elementary school, so I am highly proficient with paste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Laughing Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 And as for the V2 cards, I'm printing them out, cutting them out, and pasting them on my old cards. I'm not even going to bother with shipping, and I live in the states. But, of course, I do work in an elementary school, so I am highly proficient with paste. Sounds like an extra credit project for your students... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Sounds like an extra credit project for your students... "Mr. Lalo, what's a rotted bell?" "SHUT UP AND CUT!" ...yes. This is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattyted Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Guys thanks for the advice. I will continue to read through the forums and will try and keep up to date. Thing is I love Malifaux, I love the quirkiness and the weird combos you can set up. And I certainly ain't going to give it up. This all came about because my opponent and I can't agree on what is 'in' and what is 'out'. I think the answer to this is to change my approach and find a different opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboStele Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 This all came about because my opponent and I can't agree on what is 'in' and what is 'out'. I think the answer to this is to change my approach and find a different opponent. LOL that is one way to solve it. Just to encourage you, we ran an entire 14-week League over the course of the fall, and we did run into some of the same issues that you talked about. The key was to remind everybody that we were just there to have fun. Malifaux isn't designed to be a cut-throat, competitive game, IMO. It's supposed to be fun and entertaining. So, if you keep that in mind, I find it's easier to remember that it's not worth it to get all worked up about any minor rules issues. Honestly, outside of the 2 Rulebooks and the Errata, there are very few things that you HAVE to read on here in order to play the game. Yeah, some abilities are a bit ambiguous, but if you take a couple minutes and work through the grammar structure of the abilities, you can usually sort it out, or at least get close enough to continue playing. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oozeboss Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 However, the new rules manual will fix that. ... when it arrives. Until then, we have the situation in Oz where there is a tournament this weekend which has opted not to use v2 cards, then one on 20 Feb which has declared that it is using them. So like the OP, I find myself frustrated & bamboozled & basically not having fun (hence I haven't played a game since the v2 cards were released). Until the New Rules Manual is released, we remain in that dreaded limbo where only the Rules Lawyers thrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Bamboozled. Really? :dozingoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darguth Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Bamboozled. Really? :dozingoff This post was both helpful and comforting. :dozingoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Bamboozled transitive verb 1: to deceive by underhanded methods : dupe, hoodwink How's that for helpful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffsnog Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I would rather have to deal with errata and changes than play with broken rules for 4-12 years like some companies would have us do. I've been gaming a long time and the most valuable thing I have learned is to let odd rulings go, write them down and resolve them later. Actually it's not to play with asshats but the former seemed more diplomatic. The goal is to have fun for the most part I largely ignore wreaths as I'm an RAI kind of guy. Just remember if it's too good to be true it probably is n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCoconutMonkey6X Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I don't think we were bamboozled. My previous grievance was with the V2 cards which have now been fixed via the card redemption/pdf. Everything else now is just gravy! Having the correct figure rules was huge. But the rules book will come. I'm sure we'll get the "soon" timeframe but the fact that it was announced and even has cover artwork and such should mean that it's pretty darned close to shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apokra Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) I went and bought the books as well and really sunk my teeth into it. Did I find it shocking to realize that graverobbers couldn't search (all) for a corpse token?! Sure but you know what with my LGS I can see everyone running the ressurectionists and taking 8 dogs to simply dig, dig, dig, dig.. did I mention dig? Just to throw down 80 Mindless zombies. Sure it'd be fun to see once or twice but then it'd be the norm. What has impressed me is the fact if I have a rules question it's looked at within the week, if not sooner by the random people here. I think the reason I love this game so much is the community is more about the community then I win, you lose, SUCK IT mentality. Frankly I look forward to a league and tourny play but frankly I hope this game never gets "too big" and forgets the community. I want Malifaux to thrive but in the right direction PS. I don't know why tourny's don't currently make people print out the PDF's. It's all printable. (this is the reason I personally feel okay with all of the changes. It's not like I have to wait weeks for a updated card.) Edited January 20, 2011 by Apokra Because i'm silly and didn't finish my thought process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oozeboss Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Bamboozled transitive verb 1: to deceive by underhanded methods : dupe, hoodwink How's that for helpful? Not very, when your definition is so deliberately selective. And clearly inappropriate, as no ill intent is implied in any way. In fact, your choosing to apply this specific interpretation is basically bordering on bamboozling (pardon the pun) - as per above. However, in the context for which I originally applied it, it was as per the next part of the dictionary definition (which you chose not to mention): 2: to perplex; mystify. :nod: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Humm.. Reading through the thread again and seeing what I posted earlier karn and Griffsnog formulated what I really meant alot better than I did myself - I think I might've put it a bit too bluntly :/ Oh and also.. @XCoconutMonkey6X: I'm very glad to see that you're an optimist at last xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Guys thanks for the advice. I will continue to read through the forums and will try and keep up to date. Thing is I love Malifaux, I love the quirkiness and the weird combos you can set up. And I certainly ain't going to give it up. This all came about because my opponent and I can't agree on what is 'in' and what is 'out'. I think the answer to this is to change my approach and find a different opponent. I'm glad we could clear this up for you at least some what. Some people get really really hung up on this kind of thing, and I truly do understand why. But it always boils down to, this is a game and your playing it for fun. At some point everyone needs to realize this and just settle on a set of rules and play with them. As for what is in and what is out, we gave you everything we could without specific question. If you have any more, please ask them. People here will be quick to respond and someone will jump on the question (often within minutes if it's at the right time). Any way, enjoy Malifaux and good luck with your opponent! You should send that person to the boards and have him ask his own questions. We'll be sure to set him straight ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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