Von Schill feedback thread. Please contribute.

[karn987]

So I've played a few more games, and I'm starting to find a lot of problems.

Let me make a list, real quick.

These questions stem strictly to question I ask with each game I play.

1. Why is there no companioning?

Reasoning: For a close knit group of super bad asses, I feel like I am too drawn out, and it feels like there should be Alpha strike capability. I'm talking about the whole Guard Captain companioning 3 Guild Guard. Shouldn't Von Schill, captain of the Freikorps, be able to do this as well?

2. How do you get out of melee?

Reasoning: With ultra low Df and a huge reliability on ranged, how do you get your crew out of melee from a melee beast like Lilith or Lady J? I think that the root of this problem is solely due to the fact I have no ability to move my crew as one.

3. No matter how I try to lie to myself, the Freikorpsmenn often underperform. What do you guys who have great success with them do for success?

4. Are there any mercenaries that are good to take with Von Schill?

Reasoning: I've taken the Convict Gunslinger in a few games and he really felt like Von Schill had more synergy with the Convict than he does with his own crew.

1) Rather then create another Ortega crew, they went a different way. They have a different play style then them and I think your mind is stuck in the frame that they should be like the guild. Companion was forgone to simply make a different style of model. They stand out more that way and also work well when hired by other crews alone or in pairs.

But unlike the crews with Companion, they are much much tougher. Their armor is great, providing Armor 1 and effective Armor 2 vs magic is huge. Sure their Df is on the low side of average, but thats what they are.. they are your highly skilled soldiers not your ab-human enforcers (ala Death Marshals or Witchling Stalkers). They are about different things then guild gaurd and giving them companion makes them to much of a clone.

2) Ever thought they are just not built with that ability? Look at Guild, most of the time they can't get out of melee and they dont hold a candle in most cases to Neverborn monsters. So you can't move your crew as one, most crews can't. Stop thinking about them in terms of being like the guild or not being how you want them. Think about them as they are and realize that they simply do not and will not have these things right now.

If your in melee with Lilith, well even most 12ss models are doomed to begin with so your no different really. Just Flurry and do the best you can, they are not lacking anything the majority of the models in the game don't have.

You could ask this about any crew if you really wanted and the reason is always going to be the same, its a rare ability and not what that crew is about.

3)Dumb Luck put it very well, they are a cheap way to buff out your crew and are very solid models for their points. They are not elite units and are not going to fair well 1 on 1 with say Teddy or Bette Noir, but they will hold their own in most cases. These are your grunts, they tie things up for your elites and supplementary mercs.

4) Well I believe this is the 3rd time Im saying this in this thread... Taylor and Johan are AMAZING with Von Schill because his crew lacks that big hitting model and those 2 are great solutions for it. Misaki is an amazing model and her utility is nearly never ending, give her a try.

[Sandwich]

Well, if you read the original post, I don't want a Guild Guard Clone.

But for an elite group of elite mercenaries that are supposedly lethal beneath Von Schill, they feel a little lacking.

I absolutely love the way the Freikorpsmenn look, but they have yet to live up to par to any of the other Freikorpsmen and I really would rather not have to substitute them with mercenaries in order to be competitive, even against other crews lead by other Henchmen.

I will continue to play and hopefully adapt into a much more educated position, as it could just be that in all 5 games I have played, I've been beaten by the fate deck when it comes to the Freikorpsmenn, I don't know.

Edit: Protip: Freikorpsmenn are better in melee than they are at ranged.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Sandwich

[Sandwich]

So, update.

Cannonball was actually completely correct.

It's a waiting game with them.

The Freikorpsmen performed rather well, still outshined by the Specialist and Von Schill.

Total kill count was 6/9(or 10?) models versus Pandora.

Vp - 8 to 6.

Von Schill victory.

I see exactly where I was flawed.

Feel free to add any specific tactics used or this thread can fade into obscurity.

[Sezar]

I'm pretty interested on reading how you dealt with Pandy. I guess Von Schill was the first to be activated every turn to get the +4Wp:aura, at least that's what I'd do.

What did you do offensively? Blast-happy to bypass Pandora's protection?

Last night I had another game with a pure Korps list, it was a 25ss game and I fielded the full box versus Lady J.

I played it really bad tactically speaking, and barely got a draw in the very last activation. Lessons I learned:

-- Von Schill can't stand in CC with a monster like Lady J.

-- Hard hitters are a big problem to this Crew, as even with Armour the 6Wd fall down too fast.

-- I still can't use my Librarian offensively; she's got too much work to do, and while Furious Casting she's unable to cast her Ancient Words. I wish this attack was a Spell and not a regular Weapon, both for this reason and to have a magical damage source in the Crew.

-- Removing suits on key opponents is cool, specially on Lady J. to avoid her Riposte.

-- I keep placing my Specialist on the first line of combat, so he's too quickly engaged in CC. I have to be more cautious with him.

-- Even while he was who made the draw possible, my Trapper is always underperforming. I need to field him better, but I still feel it's dumb he's got better Cb with the knife than with his rifle.

[hippieshopper]

So, update.

Cannonball was actually completely correct.

It's a waiting game with them.

The Freikorpsmen performed rather well, still outshined by the Specialist and Von Schill.

Total kill count was 6/9(or 10?) models versus Pandora.

Vp - 8 to 6.

Von Schill victory.

I see exactly where I was flawed.

Feel free to add any specific tactics used or this thread can fade into obscurity.

When did you play Pandora?

I remember the Lady J/Lucy fight...

I still plan on helping you out with the box...

if you haven't already done it.

[gunpowder saint]

When did you play Pandora

When I saw this I assumed he fought Andrew.

Andrews loss would not only explain his early arrival home,

but it would also explain why he didn't play anything besides Never Winter Nights, then slept.

[capsfan34]

So being a semi new player to Malifaux having two factions and the original rulebook and playing only three games all a year ago, I want the new book and I want V.S and the Friekorps. My question as this thread kinda answered is how come V.S does not have the Master ability. I glanced through the book yesterday at a LGS and noticed he didn't have it. So can one play a game with the V.S box set?

[Bozzy]

Easiest response is yes..vs is a henchman and thier are new rules involving henchmen in the second book..u can usem as a master or as another masters henchman..

[Buck Dog]

Von Schill is a henchman, a new category of model from book 2. Henchmen aren't as powerful as a master, but they can still lead a crew and use soulstones. You can also hire them as minions, so for instance you can have a crew lead by The Viktorias and containing Von Schill.

Henchmen also allow you to take more Special Forces minions than normal... ie, The Viktorias on their own are limited to just two Freikorp, whereas Von Schill can take as many as he wants.

[Wodschow]

I'm pretty interested on reading how you dealt with Pandy. I guess Von Schill was the first to be activated every turn to get the +4Wp:aura, at least that's what I'd do.

That would be.. futile..

Hard-Ass gives you +4Wp on Morale Duels.

Pandora hardly uses those, she just uses standard Wp-duels. (Exceptions being the somewhat uncommon Teddy and Trapped in Your Own Nightmare.)

[Sandwich]

It was against my girl.

Which is the only reason I won, paired with an almost universal Wp 6+ due to Stubborn.

Andrew would devour Von Schill, there's no doubt, I'm still learning him.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Sandwich

[Sandwich]

So, the best 35 SS crew makeup I've had work for me was actually

Von Schill - 0 Cache

Librarian

Specialist

Trapper

5x Freikorpsmenn

With two SS to spare.

If you're in a game with no beast or constructs, don't take the Trapper, go for another Freikorpsmann and the bonus SS, unless there is a lot of severe terrain OR if you're against Lilith, in which you should deploy him either with your models, or nearby.

Never use the Freikorpsmen for ranged, their gun sucks and to trigger their critical strike, you need to waste a ram, whereas with their knife, you have Cb 6, (2)Flurry and a place to throw away any extra tomes lying around.

Damage sucks all around, save for Von Schill.

Specialist is the "tank" of the crew, especially when buffed by the Librarian.

AoE damage is in the sweet spot, it's enough to make the Specialist a desireable kill, not too much to where you wanna blow all your resources on it. Aside from Von Schill and the Freikorpsmenn, the Specialist is the only other "must have" model.

While the rest of the crew is on the front line being annoying, use Von Schill to run around and complete objectives. His gun has a 12" range so there's never any reason at all for him to be up front with the rest of his crew, and you never want to use it on anything engaged with his boys in melee because they'll take care of it. (+1)Nimble, (0)Augmented Jump and a Knife on par with his Freikorpsmenn means you have NO reason ever to put him in melee, ever.

The Librarian is really a must in most games, but with super low Df anyway, her +2 Df buff won't really save you that much. What will save you, however, is (1)Healing Energy.

I never use it offensively, but I'm sure if you wanted to do so it couldn't hurt too badly.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Sandwich

[Sezar]

That would be.. futile..

Hard-Ass gives you +4Wp on Morale Duels.

Good catch!!

[Mazin1]

Hey all. Got my 2nd game in with Von Schills crew with Tealor. Buddy was playing Colette with the Dreaded Coryphees.

It was an attrition war to end all wars. My Armor vs his soul stone usage. I ended u winning 6-2. Von Schill

Is a monster at scenario play. I got destroy the evidence for a scheme and he was instrumental in getting 2 out of 3 evidence pieces (the Specialist got the 3rd).

Going into this game my focus was scenarios. I really didnt want to go head u with him. I kept the Coryhees busy with Tealor and the Librarian healing her when she needed it. Freikorpmen keeping Casandra busy all game.

Only 2 models died all game. I lost the Sepcialist and he lost a mannequin.

I really feel Von Schills crew is best at scenario play above all else. Especially him. He cant be locked down. I know you want to play him close to his crew but in both games I let him go off by himself to complete my objectives while the rest of the crew try to prevent your opponets crew from completing theirs. Also Thwart and Bodyguard seem to be no brainers with V.S..

[Sandwich]

That's the way I've felt.

He seems better off as a loner going for objectives while the rest of his crew lock your enemies down.

[cannonball]

Nice report Manzin1. Will keep that in mind. :-)

BTW nice clamping down on their heavy hitters. I'm sure it frustrated him no end?

[Mazin1]

Hey, Thanks. Im sure he could have bounced out of melee at any time with the Coryhees, but really he had to stay around where he was because of Reconnoiter.

The Coryhees cause another problem for him. They cost so much he didnt have much more room for much else so I had activations on my side which hurt his scheme.

After playing other games were killing is the focus its hard to sticking to a focus were you are not trying to kill everything in front of you. Cool thing is, Von Schill never made one attack the whole game.:laugh:

[hippieshopper]

That's pretty nice!

The more I hear of him, the more I want to try him out.

I suppose it's just a matter of buying him.

[Drifter]

Ever tried Hamelin with the Freikorps? I suppose everyone wearing one of the nice FK-Armorsuits is unaffected by hamelins "black death" spell. That means with the right cards you can deal three damage a turn to every enemy without hurting the good guys.

cheers,

Drifter

[Ratty]

Ever tried Hamelin with the Freikorps? I suppose everyone wearing one of the nice FK-Armorsuits is unaffected by hamelins "black death" spell. That means with the right cards you can deal three damage a turn to every enemy without hurting the good guys.

cheers,

Drifter

It would still hurt them. Black Death causes 1 Wd, so would bypass the Friekcorp armour that protects them from Damage caused by Pulses.

[Buck Dog]

It would still hurt them. Black Death causes 1 Wd, so would bypass the Friekcorp armour that protects them from Damage caused by Pulses.

Really ? I am not sure that I am following you... is it because it causes Wds rather than Damage ?

[Ratty]

Really ? I am not sure that I am following you... is it because it causes Wds rather than Damage ?

Yep Damage is different to wounds. When Damage is resolved it becomes Wounds, So something like spirit which effects damage would half any Damage that is done to you, but do nothing to Wds caused to the model.

[Buddhanutz]

I had a great game with Von shcill against Perdita and crew. Von Shcill spent most of the game using his boots and yo-yoing back and forth to shoot the crap out of Perditas family. In the third round nino had my crew pinned down. I move vonshcill up to stab fransisco to death than I jumped over to tie up Perdita and Nino. Next turn nino failed to kill Shcill and perdita moved up to kill one of my vickies. The next turn Von Shcill stabbed perditta to death (I could not shoot her do to cover), I soul stoned and killed her. During my opponents players next turn, Nino opened fire on Von Shcill (who had one wound left) and dropped him, but Von Schill used his slow to die action and shot nino, ending his young under costed life. It was a great game. My liabrarian stayed in the back healing my hunter and the specialist. One note, the librarian really burns through your fate hand.

[Sandwich]

Von Schill as an underling is no doubt a beast.

I'm honestly surprised you iced Perdita with your knife though,

Luck of the draw I suppose.

[Buddhanutz]

Yep, I threw down the red joker for damage and then fliped a moderate I believe (the only red joker that I had in my hand out of about six games---- dice like me better than cards I suppose, and dice don't like me much), this was more than enough and I think my hunter tagged her once, just for good measure. It was a blood bath. I lost both vickies. Perdita executed one of them and I drew the black joker on my damage prevention flip and I only needed to ingnore one point to live. One point! What a game.

Im mainly a warmachine/hordes man, so Im still getting used to the game, but I definetly enjoy it.