Starting Nicodem

[Dynomime]

I'm starting up a nicodem crew and here's what I've got so far.

Nicodem

Mortemer

3 punk zombies

canine remains

killjoy

What else should i pick up to make a good crew?

My thinkin so far is start with nic on the field with mortemer, canines and killjoy, let the canines go off and die use those bodies plus whatever mort digs up to make the bulk of my fighting force.

And i had a question, the way i understand it i can pay 2ss for some canine remains send it off to die then use the corpse to summon a 5ss punk zombie? or am i wrong?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Yup. A corpse counter is a corpse counter is a corpse counter.

And if you're looking for a Killjoy vessel, I hear a lot of good things about Necropunks.

[ItchyDani3l]

I'm starting up a nicodem crew And i had a question, the way i understand it i can pay 2ss for some canine remains send it off to die then use the corpse to summon a 5ss punk zombie? or am i wrong?

You can do this, but it's hard to pull off.

You need to right cards and you have to do it early in the game.

Go ahead if you really feel you can do it.

[Dynomime]

I've got a really loose grasp on the rules so far (first game is tomorrow)

what do you mean right cards? I thought summoning was just throw away a counter, pass a casting test, and then I've got a new zombie.

so is the crew I've got drawn up so far gonna fall flat you think?

What would you change? any and all advice is appreciated

[M_Ruckuss]

I've got a really loose grasp on the rules so far (first game is tomorrow)

what do you mean right cards? I thought summoning was just throw away a counter, pass a casting test, and then I've got a new zombie.

so is the crew I've got drawn up so far gonna fall flat you think?

What would you change? any and all advice is appreciated

You have the starting box crew, which is designed to work well. I always hear good things about the punk zombies. When used correctly they carve stuff up, creating corpse counters nicodem then uses to summon stuff. I have no clue about killjoy, but you will be laughing if you can summon a rogue necromancy (book 2) they are awesome

[TimeLapse]

I never pay for a punk zombie i always summen them, for me I do like the K-9 2ss trade for a 5ss zombie tactic. It seems to work well for me so far. On key model(s) I would get is Crooked men they are vary helpful the more you use them the more your like them. I personaly like bete noir more then killjoy, less points and just as effective in my mind but thats due to the fact that I hate the kill joy model, its just creepy. =P.

I would (and do) run the following at 25SS

Nico

Mroty

3 k-9 rems

2 crooked men

Grave sprit

The crooked men have some good range ablities and are good starters in your unit, they also have some great triggers. there range spell that drops AoEs are great. Also they have high df vs ranged attacks add that to bolster undead and you have a really hard to hit undead guy.

I attach the sprit to nico, armor 2 is awesome to have.

The way I play nico is to think of resorce managment, you have X courpes tokens, that can turn into higher SS cost models.

Punk zombies are great in close combat but they do not have effective long range attacks, thats why i start with the Crooked men and summen the zombies.

REmember when you summen you can summen them anywhere within range (i think its with in 10 inches im not sure i dont have the book on me at the moment) so always summen them as close to combat as you can.

He takes some getting used to, I thought he was the worst master in the game nexted to markus until i started playing him now he is my favorite.

Hope this helps,

Andrew Haught

Edited December 29, 2010 by TimeLapse

[ProdigalPunk]

I've got a really loose grasp on the rules so far (first game is tomorrow)

what do you mean right cards? I thought summoning was just throw away a counter, pass a casting test, and then I've got a new zombie.

so is the crew I've got drawn up so far gonna fall flat you think?

What would you change? any and all advice is appreciated

By right cards he just means high crows so that the spell goes off. I tend to blow a ss on the cast too to make sure that it goes off.

I personally like the Vulture with Nico, as it is fast and can allow him to grab counters from the comfort of behind the battle front.

[Sandwich]

My advice is simple.

Vultures make life real easy.

Never forget (0)Arise!.

(1)Decay is real fancy.

Perch is abusive.

Being able to paralyze things, backed with a 7 Ca is real, real fancy.

[Mach_5]

I run him much like TimeLapse, though I'll often have a rotten belle thrown in the mix too. They are also excellent at range.

(0)Arise is important, but (0)Bolster Undead is his bread and butter!

Try hitting a juicy enemy living minion with Decay or a crooked man's cave in, then following it up with Mortimer companioning all your canines; each canine can (1)Charge wounded living models, at Cb 6 with Nico's Bolster, and their ability that gives -2Df to opponents facing multiple dogs to boot, they will tear pretty much anything apart:

So first dog (1)charges (Cb6 vs Df at dmg), then (1) strike for its second action.

2nd dog (1)charges (Cb6 vs Df-2 at dmg), then (1) strike follow up...etc

[Q'iq'el]

I'm starting up a nicodem crew and here's what I've got so far.

Nicodem

Mortemer

3 punk zombies

canine remains

killjoy

What else should i pick up to make a good crew?

My thinkin so far is start with nic on the field with mortemer, canines and killjoy, let the canines go off and die use those bodies plus whatever mort digs up to make the bulk of my fighting force.

And i had a question, the way i understand it i can pay 2ss for some canine remains send it off to die then use the corpse to summon a 5ss punk zombie? or am i wrong?

You need:

3~6x Mindless Zombies

2x Vulture

Necropunks, Canine Remains and Killjoy are *quite optional*. If anything, Necropunks tend to work better for Nico than Canine Remains.

Bête Noire is on a *highly recommended* list for Nico. She works much better than Killjoy in his team.

For some missions you may take one of the new hard hitters (the Dead Rider or Undead Necromancy) and it never hurts to have a Flesh Constructs or Two to summon, should the need arise.

Crooked Men are also a very solid addition to any Nico crew. Rather than summon them, replace a Punk Zombie or Two - you will have a ranged capability early on, you will be able to conduct some area-denial operations and perhaps leave a guard or two on crucial objectives (with their Shafted marks lying around). As Crooked Men or the opponents die, you'll summon Punk Zombies in their place.

As for making Punk Zombies out of Canine Remains... this is something a lot of players try and then abandon, in my experience. At first the marvelous summoning abilities of Nicodem tend to attract attention, later on you discover he does much better if you play him as a buffer and use reanimation merely to bring back your lost crew.

You need high :crows cards to pull Reanimate off. These high cards could be used on Decay or Rigor Mortis and win you the game, but instead you merely summoned a minion you could've bought just as well. Considering that your Control Hand will be average most of the time, it isn't really wise to buy a list based on early-game Control Card usage.

Experienced players try to use first turn or two to get rid of bad cards and build up some really good hand for a deadly combo in the later turns. By having to summon your Punk Zombies, you basically deny yourself the opportunity.

Price of a minion is not only limitation, it is also the equivalent of AP and Cards you need to spend to get it otherwise. While my Nicodem will be killing enemies and healing Zombies he brought with him (thus weakening the opponent before the ultimate confrontation), and moving as fast as he can towards objectives (he is very slow for a master), your will be stuck back trying to raise minions desperately - a recipe to get him singled out and killed, or to be too late to grab objectives, at least.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Q'iq'el

[Mach_5]

Heck, if you had enough canines you could take down a master this way, as he'll eventually run out of soulstones and cards to cheat with.

[Mach_5]

For the record, I buy canine remains to summon punk zombies or whatever else is required at the time... but I don't waste time killing them off myself or using any decent first-turn cards to do so early on. They can be very useful minions in their own right, especially for 2ss, and once they die in turn 2 or 3 I'll have the cards to turn them into punk zombies or worse...

[Jonas Albrecht]

I'm of a mind that its better to start with what you want and need, rather than re-purposing Canine Remains. Nicodem's Might Undead Army takes time to get rolling, and while you can bring them all back with Arise, you're not going to get a lot done with just Mindless Zee's on the board.

[Mach_5]

So what we're saying is there's lots of ways to run Nicodem effectively!

[Jonas Albrecht]

So what we're saying is there's lots of ways to run Nicodem effectively!

Absolutely. There's a lot more to him than just summoning and casting Decay.

[Q'iq'el]

So what we're saying is there's lots of ways to run Nicodem effectively!

Of course. You just need to take into consideration all the factors and the initial SS price is not everything.

For one, master's AP are worth much more than regular AP. You have only limited number of APs for the game, but people regularily fail to see it as a resource. During 6 turn game Nicodem will conduct only up to 18 actions (6 of these being from casting expert so of limited use). It's less than the soulstone pool of his own crew.

Another resource are high cards. The high card you spend on rising the Punk Zombies in turn 3 or 4 may be a high card that lets you pull Severe damage Decay and one-shot some important model.

So if you buy a Punk Zombie from get go, you spend 5 SS.

If you summon it from Canine remains, you spend 2SS, 1AP, 1 high card. Both APs and high cards are actually harder to come by than 3 SS of the price difference.

Of course there are scenarios where you need speed Nicodem usually doesn't have and both Necropunks and Canine Remains may be a solid investment for those cases. Personally I prefer the former, but that's a matter of personal preferences.

Either way, as long as Canine Remains have a purpose you take them for, they are an excellent choice. If they are there just to bring the Punk Zombies later on, you may be cheating yourself out of resources that are far more valuable than the 3 Soulstones you initially save.

[tadaka]

A dog can be nice to kill off and often worth takeing for that reason. It can be effective to kill a model of your own if you have a trick in mind. If you are killing your own model just to try and get a few more ss you are probably waisting your action points and cards. Do it to reach a goal greater then just getting 3ss advantage.

Few solid reasons to take a dog just to kill it.

Set list tournaments. If you are in a set list tournamant and you take a early dog this will give you options once the game starts to bring out some thing that may work very well vs the other crew.

This can let you bring out a zombie hooker vs low WP crews. Crooked men vs close combat heavy crews. Necropunks are a great option vs slower crews to jump around and pick off objectives.

You know the other side well and can plan on them hitting nico with a first turn alpha strike. In this case makeing a zombie or 2 to protect you can be a good idea.

Burning activations. Some times you need to wear the other side out before you charge in. Killing a cheap dog and makeing another model to also burn an activation on can be a good option if your current plan needs to wait a few activations for the other player runs out. This is often the case when the other side is playing just a couple of expensive models.

Edited December 30, 2010 by tadaka

[TimeLapse]

Well as you can see there are lots of ways to play Nico, Though I only play him the way I do and find it works for me.

As for figuring out numbers and worrying about not geting high cards because you are saveing crows for summening, I have this to say, First off, resser minnions dont do much damage on there charts in fact they are not really ment to, they wear you down with alot of weak hits till you die, thats just how they work, so not having high cards in your deck is not a big worry for me when playing him.

There are two major camps when i comes to totems, I never run the valture, For one its ablity to get Corpse counters is good but the dogs have a weaker way of doing the same thing so its not that good, It cant really cast spells on its own via the Magical extension due to the fact the valture has no suite.

For me its the grave spirit all the way, it has 3CA of crows, and it is quite handy for casting "the fog" as well as giving amour 2 to Nicodem. Its a spirit so it can take more damage then the valture and it costs only 1ss so its dirt cheap.

when Useing the grave sprit I tend to make a three man tag team that sits back and pumps out minions (Compainion Mortamer to Nico via zombie companion and then the totem), Dont forget that now you can cheat mortamers exhume spell you can make corpse counters. I never count on my oppent's models for corpse counters and count any that i get from them as a bonus.

When I do this tag team I tend to activate them after one of my dogs moved, then I activate the team, I start with morty, he compainons then he casts exhume now i try to cast fresh meat on the moved dog. Then the grave spirt goes he links trys to cast fog. then its nicos turn, if he got a corpse counter from exhume he will atempt a reanimator. If not he will move, cast fog if not cast yet or Rigor mortis.

On a side note everyone talks about how good decay is or reanimator but the vary best spell Nico has is Rigor mortis. When I first played him i came from playing perdita and thought well this guy is terrable since he does not and can not kill models himself really. But then I found the joys of Paralyzing my opponets armies and found that if they cant move they cant hurt me.

Thats also why I like Crooked men, There melee attacks can Paralyze also casting shafted under a model that is paralyzed and has yet to activate is a nasty trick.

Mortimer aslo can paralyze a model.

There great becaue most armies dont have acess to models that can paralyze but in a nico army you can have alot of them and it is awesome.

A note on necro punks, I own them and I never bring them unless im playing a mission that has an objective token that i can pick up, then I bring one.

for any other game necro punks are two weak and costly at 3ss to be effective, they are fast witch is nice but they can esaly move out of boster undead range and support from there slow moving freinds that they are exposed and die. I like the models but for there cost and what they do they have a vary limited use.

I may put bells in my list I just havnt bought them yet so i havent put them in. But I love my crooked man guys too much, it would be hard for me to take some out.

The only models i would start with that cost more the 4ss are the following,

Bete Noire (More paralzing awesomeness)

and The undead rider

Both are worth it in there own right and you can summen them. And they both become monsters when bolstered.

On a side note, I only need to use Arise once per game if at all in fact in the last 25+ games I played with Nico I only used it once in 4 or 5 games in total. but I find having hard to wound 1, the ablity to heal himeself and armour 2 keeps him alive and well for a long time.

There was one game VS the alp horde that i used boster undead every turn since all the mindless zombies would die instantly as soon as they actived, but it keep me alive to tie out the game in the end.

On another side note its good to start the game with at lest 4 or 5 SS on nico, this is so that you can stone a cheated cast to pull off Reanimator, I have been know to cheat with a 2 of crows and SS for the extra card to pull this spell off and in that cast it worked I pulled a 7 and it made it barely but it went off and I got myself a Rogue Necromancy.

Also never forget that you get to draw a card for each corpes counter you use in casting Reanimator so a Rogue Necromancy nets you 4 card draws. By drawing like this I did have a game where I cast Reanimator 4 times (3 by Nico and one from the grave spirit, I wonder if I could ever do that again =P) I of course got good draws and used 2SS but it was worth it. I summed 4 punk Zombies, and yes it was awesome. I also bostered undead because im that cool.

So You could play it safe and hire your punk zombies if you want but where is the fun in that?

The thing about punk Zombies is that they are slow, and you could just summen them closer =P for cheaper.

Dogs are great models to get Corpes counters in the game but they also tie units up, they can charge things forceing them to kill the dog so that they can move, buying you more time to make things, also how will they kill the dog if they are paralyed? mahahahaahaha! Sorry...

So I kinda rambled there a bit but there is, I hope, some thoughts that would be useful to you and hopefuly gives you some food for thought.

Cheers and have fun with the most flexable master in the game.

-Andrew

Edited December 30, 2010 by TimeLapse

[Mach_5]

+1 what TimeLapse said!

The only models i would start with that cost more the 4ss are the following,

Bete Noire (More paralzing awesomeness)

and The undead rider

...can't be summoned you mean.

Try a belle sometimes, lure is awesome for anyone, and everything is better with bolster undead goin.

[Q'iq'el]

@TimeLapse

I'm not sure what do you mean by using Canine Remains to get Corpse Counters, but if you mean using (all)Search, then remember it has been fixed to work only for Scavengers - you cannot get Corpse Counters that way anymore.

The dogs can grab counters lying around and bring them back, but that requires multiple AP. Vultures "teleport" the counters directly to the master which is less cumbersome.

The major point in using Vultures though is (1)Eyes and Ears. Nicodem loves sitting in the middle of his undead Army, protected from melee and bolstering and healing everyone around. Eyes and Ears let him draw angles and cast spells when there are so many models around blocking his LoS.

And I don't think anyone belittles the importance of Rigor Mortis. It's just that it is a hard spell to pull out and even harder, if you spend your cards on Reanimations. In combat situations, where you don't move much, you may get to cast one Rigor Mortis every few turns, if your hand is good, but you'll get 3~4 Decays off and a Reanimate or two on the top of that. There are spells which are very good, and there are spells which are bread and butter because you can always use them. Decay is great because it both heals and damages in single cast - it lets you save cards and APs you'd have to spend on Reanimations and it dents the opponent on the way. Getting new Mindless Zombies without having to cast Arise! is a very good thing too - keeps the Bolster Undead up all the time.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Q'iq'el

[hippieshopper]

He means that they are Graverobbers and can pick up corpse counters....and they are way faster than Morty, Sebs, or slow old Nico.

I use my crows for summoning but they aren't the only high cards I get.

I don't use Vultures either, I tried them a few times and people always make them a target too early on. The Grave Spirit is probably my favorite one because tagging it with Nico surrounded by zombies makes him pretty tough.

[TimeLapse]

@Q'iq'el

Sorry i was unclear it was late when i wrote that, When talking about dogs i was not saying that they make corpes counters but to fetch them via "for you, master" action. not as good as the vultures but the can retrive corpes counters. The dogs also will die and become corpes counters so there handy. with bolster the gain a bit more life in the game with df7.

but there is the core divide of the nico players, unlike most of the other masters nico has meny ways to be played, and each way is soild in there own right.

I dont play him like others i know, but he is flexable, and it really depends on the cards you draw.

I am pro udead dogs but i never bring more then 4 in my list.

Vultures are good but they never fit my playing style, eyes and ears is okay bt CA -3 is alot to ask for my taste, making you have to a 10+ to pull off a simple decay.

but like all I said it has to do with playing style.

-Andrew

[hippieshopper]

Usually the few times I cast Decay I throw everything I have into it so CC's on offensive spells are not much to me and I can't actually remember them most of the time. I do check to make sure though.

[Q'iq'el]

I'm not sure how Vultures can be targeted early on. They are very fast, very small, fly and can land in places nobody else can enter (Perch). Any tiniest feature of terrain protects them from shooting and melée cannot access them at all.

I understand many players play with inadequate amount of terrain on their table and it may be sometimes a factor, but in case of Vultures even minimal amount is enough. After battle is joined and opponent has to deal with Nicodem's killy troops, the Vultures are practically free to swoop around and expand his LoS.

Personally I always thought Grave Spirit is somewhat meh for Nico. If you take into consideration Eyes and Ears, it is a worse caster than Vultures (at -3Ca Nico still has Ca4:crows, while GS is only 3:crows) and Armor 2 is only a secondary bonus, when the primary goal is to redirect all the attacks to Zombie Fodder anyway.

And on the top of that you get 2 Vultures.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Q'iq'el

[TimeLapse]

@Q'iq'el

well useing eyes and ears is better then the gs CA but in the end you end up useing 2AP to cast the lower ca spell.

Also if you hide the totem so that they cant be attacked by both range and melee attacks then it wouldn't be able to cast spells.

but these are the flaws i dont like.

The grave spirit has flaws itself but for only 1SS and its ablity to give nico armor 2 is a great selling point for a defencive player like myself.

also not being a viable target when linked makes it ever more the totem for me.

I see some of the plus sides to the vulture, I like the idea of hsving 2 of them, also eyes abd ears lets you still get nicos decay trigger off. and fetching CC from across the table if needed is awesome.

but its comes down to playing style, im defencive so Im drown to the Grave spirit. The vulture seems to fit more agressive players style.

-Andrew