Perdita, a few questions?

[Odin1981]

Hey all just joined the forum and recently started playing malifaux.

I currently own a executioner, the perdita box, 3 stalkers, and samuel, and the perdita totem. I plan on picking up abuela when my game store gets the november shipment.

I am mainly interested in finding out what are our more difficult matchups. I have played about 4 games so far a threeway against pandora and laeviticus, a game against seamus, one against the victoria's, and a game against pandora.

Since I haven't fought alot of the crew's yet I was just hoping for some pointers and insight from some players with more experiance than I have.

And to any who reply i would like to thank you for the time and insight.

[nilus]

Perdita is a top tier master, so you won't have the long learning curve other players might.

Difficult matches I have with her

1) Lilith. She is just as fast, just as hard to hit and hits just as hard as the Ortegas. Plus many of Perdita's family are neutralized when stuck in Melee.

2) Pandora. Perdita is probably one of the best Masters to fight Pandora with, but Pandora also strips a lot of Pedita's abilities away. So it can be tricky

3) Leveticus. A well run Levi crew is hard beat. If they are smart they keep the Waifs hidden and the old man up in your face causing damage. It can be a bitch to kill him for good

Tactics and suggestions

1) Learn to use Companion and Family. New players tend to use it way to much. Its a great ability but every time you use to activate all your models you essential give your opponent the same ability. When I run the family I generally don't keep them close enough to activate them all in one long chain, instead I keep them in kill teams of two or three models that can activate all at once if needed to really get the job done

2) Learn and love the obey spell. Its okay to use it on your enemy to get a free hit in, but with Ortegas it really shines when you cast it on your own guys. Remember that Companion is announced at the start of all the models activations that turn. So you can companion a model thats within 6" of the family and then use your three obeys(1 from Perdita, one from the totem, and one from Abuale) to get that model basically to the other side of the board.

This is great to drop a Papa Loco bomb. As well as putting a model in a good position to take out Levis Waifs(or other hiding models...like Guild Austigers)

3) Watch out for Strategies that require models on the board. Guild in general does not have a lot of healing or summoning ability. So when your guys die, they die. So best to try to avoid Strategies like Reconnoiter that require lots of models on the board at the end of turn 6.

[Alondir]

welcome to Malifaux , and perdita is a nice master to start with,

iv played alot against people using perdita, and all i can say is; sit back and enjoy the breeze as the air fill with bullets.

Alpha striking is one of the most deadly things about your crew been able to all activate can be a god send if you've got a lot that needs killing in a shot space of time. (just be weary if u do this ur open for the rest of the turn) so make sure theres nothing to retaliate with.

Obey, everything, the best target for this is ur own models (looks at nino) cos u dont need to worry about the risist duels (you can choose to fail wp duels) Perdita has it, the totem through magical extention has it, an granny has it, that 5ap from nino.

Always use in my sites.

and thats enough to make vets cry, cos if uv got any crows ur murder there hand (good for start of the turn), or masks and u get even more shots, and at cb 9 ur goin to be hitting it

Perdita can drop models soooo fast, and she can be a speed deamon when she want use this to get her into a good position early on,

Heros gambit is amazing if uv got a poor hand(consider using here near the start if thats the case)

and well i cba writing more but im sure alot of Dita players will have a lot of input so ur not going to be short on tactics,

Gl have fun, and enjoy ur stay in Malifaux

[Odin1981]

Thank you nilus for the reply. I was wondering a little bit more about lilith if you don't mind?

I would assume that matchup could be most difficult just from reading her teams stats and stuff . Never having played against her yet I would guess that the matchup is somewhere around 35-65 to 40-60 lilith's favour.

Yeah I'm not complaining at all about companion but when I played the seamus crew i saw the negatives of companion. The player activated a belle and seamus and they were stranded by themselfs plus they moved away from my executioner to my triangle team of death (santiago, nino and perdita).

I for the first time in my first 3 games remembered to use companion (mainly the seamus player was using it alot he had 3 belles sybelle and seamus I had the three mentioned above plus exe and nephilem. And the proc trigger gods served me well with the 7 actions I had 6 shots and one obey. I triggered trigger happy 4 times and didn't even get to get my last activation in but the belle and seamus were wiped off the table.

Not that I have alot of experiance but it would seem if the best use of companion is in batches of two or three figures to take down key targets before the opponent can react to who you are focusing down.

[Bas1]

Perdita is a top tier master, so you won't have the long learning curve other players might.

Difficult matches I have with her

1) Lilith. She is just as fast, just as hard to hit and hits just as hard as the Ortegas. Plus many of Perdita's family are neutralized when stuck in Melee.

2) Pandora. Perdita is probably one of the best Masters to fight Pandora with, but Pandora also strips a lot of Pedita's abilities away. So it can be tricky

3) Leveticus. A well run Levi crew is hard beat. If they are smart they keep the Waifs hidden and the old man up in your face causing damage. It can be a bitch to kill him for good

I just found it funny that it's the other top masters in the game that are mentioned

[TimeLapse]

I would like to add to that top list of lists keep my eye out for

4)Lord Champy bits and the dreamer, as a new player he is easly a hard master to get used to playing VS. If you have a LCB the relys on ALPS spread out so that he can only take out one model at a time, also consider bringing the gov proxy for anti alps. Alps are nasty little things that will kill you as you activate unless you pass a willpower test of 12 with the max min flip. You dont actual die you just get one wound for each alp in range and another wound for each if you make amove action or a strike. Its a nasty list for anyone to face and this is one you will have issues with, I still do.

As for LCB and the dreamer they have rules that let them drop there army on top of you and then activate, so you can really hurt yourself for useing compainion early on with them.

5) Evil twins, Perdita is a populer list since she is one of the easyest masters to master, so you will end up faceing your own army, so know your streagths, I find that Hans adds a bit of help to taking down another perdita list, With both hans and Nino you will have en edge in the range combat.

6) Colette du bois, and her fast fast fast moving crew, Mainly watch out for Coryphee and thre Duet form, they are fast and can get you into melee faster then you like, Perdita can take them fine but the rest of the famliy save francisco mostly rely on being out of combat.

7) each master is good and it really depends on the palyer you are faceing. There are some masters like Seamus and his undead bells that will suffer playing vs a high will power list like perdita.

But what I am trying to say is that all the lists in the game (Save Markus) are strong when played right, They maybe harder to learn but if yo have a player who mastered there master you will have an intresting and hard game on your hands. Lilith, Perdita and the Vikys are some of the easyest list to learn to use so they will be easyer for new players to be good with, Levy, Nicadem, Pandora on the other hand is some of the harder lists to learn so a new player will have a harder time useing him VS you with perdita. So always keep in mind that all the lists can be really good if the player playing them really understands what his stuff and your stuff does.

nilus is dead on what to fucus on mastering, When i learned to use obey right my list went to okay to awesome. It really is key, I have had Nino take out a mature Nef in the first turn thanks to a well used obey and trigger happy.

Also I have used the obey x3 trick on papa loco to grab an objective that was an inch away from my opponet deployment zone, gaining me 2VP that should have been his. and then he blew up in there face, it was wonderful.

When to compainion is key too, this is really something you learn from playing and it must feel right if you know what i mean.

One thing that I am always forgetting is spellbreaker on Perdita is awesome, You can use it to end any game effect thats on a model, things like boster undead if you cast it on Nico and other powerful ablities like arching screen. Just keep it in mind, its a great DF weapon.

Hope this helps.

-Andrew

[Odin1981]

Thanks for the reply timelapse and advice as well. So is my understanding why perdita is good pretty accurate in that because of everyone in my crew having shooting and companion and multiple obeys thats why they are so good?

I picked them up mainly cause they are kinda 180 degree's different from my 40k army I play ( I run tyranids). In that they are more quality than quantity and currently I'm a little bored with crew's/armies that are just run forward and smash face. Not that melee armies aren't fun its just a playstyle in my opinion that can get a tad bit boring to play often in that there is little to no variation in what you do game to game.

One question I had is are they really good because to me outside of the gremlin crew no other armies are really focused to me at least on ranged as a whole?

[DeathInc]

Perdita is good because she is easy to use. I have been playing her for a couple of years now and I've found her to be good because of the companion alpha strike, and the family's enormous damage output.

Perdita is definetely not the best master, but she is very good and balanced and her crew has their advantages and disadvantages.

[nilus]

One question I had is are they really good because to me outside of the gremlin crew no other armies are really focused to me at least on ranged as a whole?

She is definitely first tier. People chock that up to ease of play but she also is just a very nasty master(at range and in melee). Her family is also very good and she works well with just about any Guild model.

You won't have a problem with her being good, but you may have a problem with her being to good. Especially in new groups she tends to get a lot of flak for being easy to play and "unbeatable". Its not true IMHO but her learning curve is a lot less steep then most masters and it shows with a group of new players.

[Dumb Luck]

Completely overlooked Obeying your own stuff! I'm definitely after her totem now.

I'd say a rough match up would be Ophiela, because the Kin do more damage to you.

[Natty]

Perdita is good because everything about her is good. She really has no clear weaknesses. She has amazing movement, high defense, and immune to influence. She has fast and decent (not overpowered, but decent) damage.

Unless you are playing against Pandora (who ignores immune to influence), she is basically one of the Hardest masters in the game to kill.

The REAL reason that Perdita is a top tier master is all of that stuff I just said combined with the fact that Guild has some of the best and cheapest minions of any faction. Nino is basically the best minion in the game, and there are tons of other great choices for good prices too.

The other guild masters have those same choices, but they all die very very easily (I've never played Hoffman, so I'm not sure how easy he dies), and losing your master often means losing the game.

Sure, you will never do the melee damage that Lady Justice does, or the blast damage that Criid does, but you can do almost as that much damage, and stand toe to toe with basically anything in the game while you do it.

Also, don't necessarily listen to the above posters about using Obey on your own guys all the time. Yes, obey on your own guys is good, and obey on opponents guys is good, but Perdita herself is amazing, and often you will be better off just getting another attack or movement in. Of course, that obey on your totem or Abdulla should be giving Nino lots of extra actions anyway.

[Odin1981]

Yeah with nino i feel almost regretful about using him in some games. 2 players in my group are new to the game as well as me but with them just having starter boxes they are a bit limited in effective models.

The main thing with him in my humble opinion is he probably would be better balanced if he cost around 9 or 10 points but even then I don't think that would discourage guild lists from taking him (just about every guild list i've seen takes him even most lists with just him as a sole ortega member in their lists.

[TimeLapse]

Yeah I tend not to use Perdtia on new players unless they want to play vs her.

But then again most players dont have more then one army to choose from let alone my 7. I have all of the guild but vs a new player i tend to play Nicodem, Ramos, sonia Criid or the Viks.

But thats if im playing a new player, I like playing Nicodem and Ramos to show new players some of the more intresting choices in the game. I will play armies that are not geared towards what im playing and I tend to anounce what my things can and cant do so my opponet knows what to look out for in our games, if they are new that is.

But with new players the idea is to let them figure out what there army can do before you crush them with the more powerful armies in the game like Perdita and LCB.

As for Nino,

There are ways to get around Nino and I will always help players learn how to beat my own lists. but Nino is only over powered if you dont have enough terrain on the table. limit the fireing lanes by making the buildings line up so that there is no one location where you can see most of the table, make suer the gaps between the buildings dont line up so that one player can use them as a base for fire. add forests, nino can see into a forest but he might not be able to see though it.

I find that tables that have no terrain or limited terrain are the best for the shooty based armies, so clutter up the table, it wont make the perdtia and her family useless and will even it up for the non-shooting lists.

But most players dont use enough terrain then nino becomes that much better becuase if it. So play around with useing at lest 2 times the terrain you would normaly use in a game. Dont make it one sided, on eather side, make sure that a table can be crossed both in the open and in cover, make it an even spread of terrain and you will have a better more intresting game.

[KirigakurenoHaku]

Yeah I tend not to use Perdtia on new players unless they want to play vs her.

But then again most players dont have more then one army to choose from let alone my 7. I have all of the guild but vs a new player i tend to play Nicodem, Ramos, sonia Criid or the Viks.

But thats if im playing a new player, I like playing Nicodem and Ramos to show new players some of the more intresting choices in the game. I will play armies that are not geared towards what im playing and I tend to anounce what my things can and cant do so my opponet knows what to look out for in our games, if they are new that is.

But with new players the idea is to let them figure out what there army can do before you crush them with the more powerful armies in the game like Perdita and LCB.

As for Nino,

There are ways to get around Nino and I will always help players learn how to beat my own lists. but Nino is only over powered if you dont have enough terrain on the table. limit the fireing lanes by making the buildings line up so that there is no one location where you can see most of the table, make suer the gaps between the buildings dont line up so that one player can use them as a base for fire. add forests, nino can see into a forest but he might not be able to see though it.

I find that tables that have no terrain or limited terrain are the best for the shooty based armies, so clutter up the table, it wont make the perdtia and her family useless and will even it up for the non-shooting lists.

But most players dont use enough terrain then nino becomes that much better becuase if it. So play around with useing at lest 2 times the terrain you would normaly use in a game. Dont make it one sided, on eather side, make sure that a table can be crossed both in the open and in cover, make it an even spread of terrain and you will have a better more intresting game.

Everything stated here is really omething to consider. When it comes to ranged fighters like the Ortegas, line of sight is always something that the guner is going to try to obtain, and with Niño's 16" range, be sure that you'll be spotted in any opening. Terrain is going to be your greatest ally in avoiding the kid's rounds.

[KirigakurenoHaku]

In favor of Niño, though, getting him high up on some sort of sniper's nest will give him an advantage in seeing over some obstructive terrain.

I think that a balanced table in favor of both the Ortegas and an enemy crew would be plenty of obstacle to obscure line of sight with a few elevated perches to give Niño the opportunity to fire off some rounds.

Too much obscuring terrain will give your melee models too much of an advantage without that balance of elevated positions as it will prevent the ranged gunners from being able to target anything at all before the heavy-hitting beatsticks get within an arm's reach. The elevation should create an equilibrium of ranged and close-quarters combat.

[Odin1981]

Honestly, in my humble opinion terrain isn't an issue with nino.

I'm a former marine corps grunt and I have a really good tactical sense in games I play. On tables I play the game on there is at least 2-3 pieces of terrain in every 12" X 12".

Terrain doesn't really factor at all in the games that I have been involved in. Tactics and deployment however do. The thing I have noticed though I apologise if I am speaking too focused and loosing anyone who isn't as well versed with tactics is this :

If you look closely and pay attention to the terrain itself. You can see obviously areas that are avenues of approach. After schemes and strategies are placed, announced etc. All you have to do is deploy accordingly and place your crew via crew strength's and weakness accordingly.

Yeah the terrain will block LOS in some situations. But if you deploy or move to a natural fire point. You force your opponent to either force a good portion of his/her forces to be out of commision. Moving elsewhere around other avenues taking at least 3-4 turns just jockeying position just to get at you.

Now granted, I have only been playing this game 6 weeks or so. I am nowhere as well versed as vets but in games I play against people that have even been playing awhile using top crews its not that hard to use the board to your advantage and know where to set your forces up.

Not that I am saying nino is overpowered I just get the feeling due to his 16" range and great abilities. I just find him a little too good for his point cost. If he costed maybe 9/10 points there might be a chance you actually see a guild player not playing the Ortegas but including him, he might not actually get used all the time.

Granted I only have the ortegas and sonnia creed crews plus the executioner (he is just too cool both rules and looking wise to not have in my opinion). And I will most likely pick up a lucius box when he comes out and Ryle (hoffman's bro) as well but coming from playing warhammer generally anything that is always taken in maximised numbers there is generally a reason why people do.

[TreeNinja]

I have to agree with Odin1981 (fellow Leatherneck) about how the terran won't hender LoS as much as people expect and can be setup to create kill zones that will force your opponet to funnel his resources into those zones, just like constantia wire funnels your enemy into the kill zone of a machine gun nest. With Nino's range and Scout abilities he is an extreamly effective model to deploy for any crew.

[Jonas Albrecht]

We've tried a couple of things to keep the Ortegas from feeling like an uphill battle. We're mostly new players, and its helped the others get their bearings with their respective crews.

First, we took away their Critical Strikes. It's been absolutely unnecessary for them to function effectively. Second, we dropped Nino's Cb down to 6. As our group's Ortega player, I'm pretty satisfied with these changes.

[Doctor Amos]

The Ortegas, by needs, are very good at slaying the 'Borne. However, Lilith and LCB are very good at dropping strait out of the aether and ruining your gun-shootung fun. Likewise, etheral crews like Kirai can surprise you by phasing through walls or simply shrugging off your un-magiky bullets.

The Ortegas also have a wide span of movement speeds. 'Dida is fast as all get-out, but her hermanos are not. This means they get seperated easily, and a seperated family member is usually one that goes missing. Nothing can keep 'Dida alive if she's all on her own and a Teddy or Mature Nephilim decides to play with her. To say nothing of Fransisco or Santiago.

And if your opponent has any tricks that mess with your head, leave Papa at home. He's cute, and you can do fun things with him, but one Obay or Alpha and he can wipe out half your crew.

[huntroll]

We've tried a couple of things to keep the Ortegas from feeling like an uphill battle. We're mostly new players, and its helped the others get their bearings with their respective crews.

First, we took away their Critical Strikes. It's been absolutely unnecessary for them to function effectively. Second, we dropped Nino's Cb down to 6. As our group's Ortega player, I'm pretty satisfied with these changes.

Honestly I really dislike house rulings like this... The Ortegas are totally beatable, and I think only Nino and Perdita are a little bit too strong, the other family members are very easy to counter. Francisco dies to a stiff breeze, Wp-based skills screw Papa, and Santiago is useless once tied up in melee.

Sure, 'Dita is a tough nut to crack, but in my opinion new players have to play against masters like her, because it can greatly improve their gameplay. Giving them advice and letting them discover the weakpoints of the top crews is more rewarding (and challenging) than making house rules so they can win with less effort.

Btw there are a lot of masters which are more frustrating to play against if you are new to the game than Perdita. Basically all Neverborn crews, Leveticus, and most of the Book 2 masters.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Honestly I really dislike house rulings like this... The Ortegas are totally beatable, and I think only Nino and Perdita are a little bit too strong, the other family members are very easy to counter. Francisco dies to a stiff breeze, Wp-based skills screw Papa, and Santiago is useless once tied up in melee.

Sure, 'Dita is a tough nut to crack, but in my opinion new players have to play against masters like her, because it can greatly improve their gameplay. Giving them advice and letting them discover the weakpoints of the top crews is more rewarding (and challenging) than making house rules so they can win with less effort.

Btw there are a lot of masters which are more frustrating to play against if you are new to the game than Perdita. Basically all Neverborn crews, Leveticus, and most of the Book 2 masters.

This is entirely understandable, and its why its important to make sure there is a consensus in the group before implementing these rules. However, I believe that players should feel empowered to change the rules to suit the needs of their group.

And the effect is two fold. First and foremost, we addressed what we felt were imbalances, particularly in Nino's atypically high CB. This made the group enjoy playing against the Ortegas a great deal more fun.

Second was the benefit I got. By slightly dulling their razor sharp edge, I am forced to play them more tactically, which has made playing them more fun for me.

Sure, we'll have to concede to the RAW once we start eyeing tournaments, but for now, we're having a blast.