got talked into purchasing show girls and...

[grey]

my local game store talked me into purchasing the show girls for my 2nd faction. i am a new player with a handful of games in with the witch hunter box set. i have taken to the guild for the style of minis and the fluff. i am just not sure after reading tactics on the show girls whether they are for me or not.

i am looking for someone to identify their typical tactics and to help define them for me . thanks!

i might just have to paint them and let them look pretty in my display shelve. please help the noob!

i am totally diggn malifaux and its inhabitants...:abduct:

[Ratty]

Showgirls are a really interesting crew. They are what is referred to as a finesse crew. Though the individual models may not look like they have the hitting power of other crews, Colette can create soulstones and turn them into doves with clever manoeuvring you can use these to pass the effect of Use Soulstones to other models allowing your crew to hit like a freight train if you have set things up right. The crew also is very manoeuvrable. Overall they are a tricky crew to use but they are worth playing around with and are less blunt than the Guild.

[Jonas Albrecht]

A Finesse Crew is a good way to describe them. I refer to them as an Objective Crew. You have some muscle, but you should be trying to get your Strategy/Schemes finished.

[MrNybbles]

@ Jonas Albrecht: That is an excellent and concise description.

The Showgirls crew are a jack of all trades and masters of none.

They can perform melee attacks, but not as well as Lilith's crew. They can make ranged attacks, but not as well as Perdita's crew.

They work really well taking objectives. Check the Showgirls Tactica on what Schemes they are good at.

Typically what I do is go after objective markers when my Strategy or Scheme has them.

Cassandra, Coryphee, Coryphee Duet, and (when insignificant models can take objectives) Mechanical Doves can quickly move in and grab objectives. This probably doesn't need any explanation.

Quite often I also kill my opponent's Master because it hurts my opponent if he has slaughter, or because the Master is the biggest threat to me. (So far I have killed Lilith, both Victorias, and Perdita).

In this scenario I usually spend the first turn moving my one Dove into position, wait for my opponent to activate all his models, and move another Showgirl as close to my opponent as possible without being in danger. I can then have Colette discard 2 control cards to gain a Soulstone, reactivate, discard 2 more control cards to gain a Soulstone, then turn the Soulstone into a second Dove.

For the second turn I wait for my opponent's master to activate, then I send in the two doves to attack with Magician's Duel, swap in Colette into position, she also attacks with Magician's Duel as much as she can, reactivates, and attacks with Magician's Duel again, creates a third Dove which attacks with Magician's Duel after her activation ends, and if needed Colette can use her last action to swap places with Coryphee, Coryphee Duet, or Cassandra who then attack again.

The first time around they never see the Mechanical Doves as a threat. The second time around they will be very wary of the Doves. Fear the Doves!

Colette can cast Disappearing Act to get any big and nasty non-Master out of the way (though some major caveats with The Dreamer crew who can unbury what you bury). Triggering Mannequin Replacement is always a bonus.

Cassandra is a magnet for people trying to kill her. She should usually activate first and use Southern Charm to help protect her. Sultry also makes her Harmless though my opponents have always been willing to go through the extra effort and control cards to try and kill her.

Still, she is good at taking objectives, has some decent attacks, and with Coryphee or especially Coryphee Duet she can inflict some major damage.

Colette's crew tends to do well when you keep them behind cover. Try and keep any of your models from being ganged up on, and if you want something dead, gang up on it.

There are a lot of odds and ends to the Showgirls. Cassandra and Coryphee Duet can gain Soulstones for healing enemy models. This probably works best when you want to keep Leveticus from killing himself.

The Performers have Lure. Does Pandora have an annoying Woe in base contact with her? Does the Dreamer have a non-Immune to Influence Nightmare within 3" of him? Why not Lure away those problematic minions!

For the most part Colette, Cassandra, Coryphee, and the Mechanical Doves will attack in melee. Colette has an armor-piercing spell, but it costs a Soulstone and how often are you going to have a shot at a heavily armored model? I haven't seen this much.

Remember, Colette, Cassandra, and Coryphee Duet have easy access to Use Soulstone which can be used to make their melee attacks much more likely to hit, and with better twists of fate (:+twist). This is probably one reason why they have only average Dg stats.

He who sets the terms of the conflict shall win the conflict.

Colette's Illusionist talent is great for getting the right models into position. Remember, if you Link a Mannequin to another Showgirl then you can swap with the Mannequin who is still linked. This is useful for swapping with the linked Showgirl and getting the Mannequin to move over for free. Cassandra and Coryphee's Dance Partner are also good for instant ganging up on an enemy.

Okay, I seem to just be rambling on now. Was this helpful? Any follow-up questions?

[swordsman82]

The show girls are all about tricks and countering other master's powerhouse moves. The biggest power they have is letting everyone use soulstones, and every model being able to paralyze.

I am dieing to see the first person bring the dreamer/LCB against me. I wanna see my opponents face when i run Cassandra up into base contact with the Dreamer on turn 1, and not let him go anywhere. No Nightmare deep strike for you little man

[Natty]

I am dieing to see the first person bring the dreamer/LCB against me. I wanna see my opponents face when i run Cassandra up into base contact with the Dreamer on turn 1, and not let him go anywhere. No Nightmare deep strike for you little man

Sounds like a good way to get your Cassandra killed early on.

But yeah, that would slow things down a turn or two for LCB. Might be good for completing objectives.

Honestly though, most people playing the Dreamer will put him inside Terrain whenever possible. He is a spirit so he can just sit inside that tree or wall or rock and you wont be able to touch him because nothing will have LOS, and he is immune to blasts and AoE stuff.

[tadaka]

Natty they ruled a while back you cant park a sprit in a solid object.

[Wodschow]

Natty they ruled a while back you cant park a sprit in a solid object.

Could you give a reference on that?

I can only find a thread containing a ruling that is dated before the first errata. The errata says you can end your move in impassable terrain, so I'd assume this takes precedence over the ruling in that thread.

I believe it'll be mentioned in V2 though.. Hmm..

Edited November 11, 2010 by Wodschow
reworded slightly to say what I meant to say

[Natty]

Could you give a reference on that?

I can only find a thread dated before the first errata (which clearly says that you can).

I believe it'll be mentioned in V2 though.. Hmm..

Indeed. I just searched for it and couldn't find what you were talking about.

Also, if I remember correct it says right in the FAQ that spirits can end their movement in impassable terrain.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Sketch rules on it here.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9031&highlight=spirit

[Wodschow]

Sketch rules on it here.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9031&highlight=spirit

Which is a thread from before the Errata and FAQ were released..

[tadaka]

http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14431&page=2

This was as book 2 was being released.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Ah, you're right, I misread the timestamp.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Also, we should probably stop derailing this guy's Showgirls thread.

[grey]

no worries about derailing. i totally appreciate the input and i decided last night that i was going to give the girls a go.

so unless i am mistaken the models for the doves have not come out? does the box set alone with out the doves or anything else stand up in a game? having 3 doves plus the box set work?

thanks again everyone!

[Jonas Albrecht]

Doves are an important part of Colette's arsenal. So much so that I would recommend not waiting for the real model, and just head out and grab some wedding trinket doves to use it their place.

They are a fantastic way to battle your opponents masters via Magician's Duel. Also they can explode. For the cause.

[Wodschow]

http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14431&page=2

This was as book 2 was being released.

No ruling in that thread either..?

Anyway as for the purpose of the thread.

You might believe that you favor a specific playstyle, but I don't think you've played anything like the Showgirls before, and since you've gotten most of the models already there's really no reason whatsoever not to take it further than merely slapping some paint on them and have them look pretty on the shelve.

Aside from the box you should get the Corypheés and for the time being proxy some Doves and you're set - This is pretty much all you need and will want to bring for Colette - Ie. what I'm saying is that picking up the Showgirls doesn't mean you have to get 75% of the Arcanist line for her to be viable.

I'm not going to talk about tactics as others do that much better than me, but don't just read the tacticae and dismiss her, I think you'll find her playstyle intriguing and a nice alternative to sluggish Sonnia.

Also, it is my strong belief that anyone can learn to play any crew well.

[grey]

after what you guys have been saying and what more i have read on their stat cards i totally agree. i started painting them lastnight and plan to proxy the doves and get the coyphees on order this week. next week i will be playing against the dreamer and maybe if i get it together ill play the showgirls, see how it unfolds.

here's to good gaming!

:party:

[MrNybbles]

no worries about derailing. i totally appreciate the input and i decided last night that i was going to give the girls a go.

so unless i am mistaken the models for the doves have not come out? does the box set alone with out the doves or anything else stand up in a game? having 3 doves plus the box set work?

thanks again everyone!

For my Mechanical Dove proxies I have been using empty 30mm bases. Kinda cheap I know, but all my other showgirls are the actual models. Each Dove base starts with a Harmless counter and has a die on it if it has wounds. Most of my opponents will one-hit-kill those doves.

If you keep a Mechanical Dove within 3" of a Showgirl to use as a Soulstone for a Damage Reduction flip or something I suggest you be very careful of any Blast Template attacks. I really should add that to the Showgirl Tactica.

Aside from the box you should get the Corypheés and for the time being proxy some Doves and you're set - This is pretty much all you need and will want to bring for Colette - Ie. what I'm saying is that picking up the Showgirls doesn't mean you have to get 75% of the Arcanist line for her to be viable.

This is right on the money for a Scrap and just starting out.

I'm not going to talk about tactics as others do that much better than me, but don't just read the tacticae and dismiss her, I think you'll find her playstyle intriguing and a nice alternative to sluggish Sonnia..

Most of the feedback I get about the Tactica is positive, but unfortunately this doesn't help me figure out what needs to be improved. In the OP he wanted to know their typical tactics. The Showgirl Tactica isn't exactly laid out that way. I'm also not sure if my previous post (or which other posts here) were helpful to him or not.

I have tactics listed such as 'Colette the Almost Immortal', 'Colette the Soulstone Factory', and Triple Tomes for Colette's Mannequin Replacement, but looking back it doesn't exactly say I usually wait for my opponent to activate all his models, create Soulstones and a Dove with Colette, and move her and the Dove into position for turn 2 which may be more of what Grey is looking for.

[LoboStele]

I would also recommend the Arcanist Gunsmith or Johan as possible options for the crew. The more I play with the Showgirls, the more I end up liking to stick with the Performer/Mannequin instead, but those other two are decent options in their own ways.

[swordsman82]

If your going against the dreamer, just remember Cassandra is his assassin. 21 inch movement first turn should get you into base contact with him first turn. And since she can't be attacked with melee til turn 3, she will be able to get the first hit off on him. LCB has a low enough defense (and since you have Collette, Cassandra can use soulstones) Cassandra will wipe him off the table in no time.

[MrNybbles]

@swordsman82: Assuming terrain doesn't impede Cassandra that is an excellent idea. In fact if you get the initiative on turn one and use Companion(Showgirls) on Cassandra and Colette you could kill The Dreamer on turn one with Colette before he summons any Nightmares. The hard part is when The Dreamer is within 3" of a Nightmare you can't target him.

BTW, making a Disengaging Strike is a type of attack so it will end her Celebrity ability.

[Natty]

Can't Colette switch places with a showgirl within 18 inches?

So you could move up a showgirl, switch places with it, then switch places with a fresh showgirl, and give yourself reactivate.

Then move that fresh showgirl (who is in the place where the first showgirl ended) up even further.

Activate Colette, switch with that showgirl, then switch with Casandra.

So Casandra would start her activation 18 inches outside of her deployment zone. Even if terrain was in your way, you could basically get anywhere on the board in turn 1.

[Natty]

The hard part is when The Dreamer is within 3" of a Nightmare you can't target him.

I still believe that spirits can park inside of terrain (that link to the second thread someone posted doesn't seem to work for me so I'm not sure what it was about).

But anyone who isn't inside of terrain and doesn't have a nightmare within 3 inches deserves to have his Dreamer killed. But remember that The Dreamer's ability only works if you could have targeted that Nightmare within 3 inches. Cassandra is so maneuverable that you should be able to position her so she can attack the Dreamer, but can't attack the nearby nightmare. Of course, if there are nightmares on several sides of him then that wont work.

Be careful though, The Dreamer is sure to have 7 or 8 soulstones, and can use them to reduce wounds. Also, he is a spirit, so half damage from non-magic attacks. He may look killable with 2 defense and 3 wounds, but that goes a long way when you start burning soulstones to prevent damage.

[MrNybbles]

I still believe that spirits can park inside of terrain (that link to the second thread someone posted doesn't seem to work for me so I'm not sure what it was about)

I don't understand why this is up for debate because it was answered on page 12 of the current Malifaux FAX (Version 1, January 2010). The Dreamer is a Master and a Spirit. Did I miss a ruling that changes this or something?

CHARACTERISTICS

Spirits

Q: Can non-Spirit models move through Spirits?

A: Yes (p.21) .

Q: Can a Spirit end its movement in impassible terrain?

A: Yes (p.21).

EDIT:

Be careful though, The Dreamer is sure to have 7 or 8 soulstones, and can use them to reduce wounds. Also, he is a spirit, so half damage from non-magic attacks. He may look killable with 2 defense and 3 wounds, but that goes a long way when you start burning soulstones to prevent damage.

The Performer's Expensive Gift can still target The Dreamer (unless a Nightmare within 3" has Use Soulstones, but so far no Showgirls are actual Nightmares ) so they can help relieve him of extra Soulstones. Magician's Duel is great for killing him when he can be targeted.

Can't Colette switch places with a showgirl within 18 inches?

So you could move up a showgirl, switch places with it, then switch places with a fresh showgirl, and give yourself reactivate.

Then move that fresh showgirl (who is in the place where the first showgirl ended) up even further.

Activate Colette, switch with that showgirl, then switch with Casandra.

So Casandra would start her activation 18 inches outside of her deployment zone. Even if terrain was in your way, you could basically get anywhere on the board in turn 1.

The theory is correct, but most of the time Cassandra can move to where she needs to go without such tricks. Some terrain will reduce her movement by half (or an objective could be on top of a building or up a cliff)

Can't Colette switch places with a showgirl within 18 inches?

Yes, which has many uses including what you suggested though it usually isn't required to get wherever you need to go.

Edited November 13, 2010 by MrNybbles