Blank Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Alright. I apologize. I mis-read Bad Juju. He is summoned 7" away from an enemy. But none the less, I agree with Wodschow and Karn. To help everyone understand, look, Juju has to be at least 7" away from an enemy model right? That's puts the distance between you and an enemy at 7"? Fair enough, but when you measure your distance on Landslide, mathematically, you will not have touched the enemy's base. You would need like, 1/10 of an inch to reach their model, maybe not even that. I apologize if that makes it very technical but we are talking about killing a players core master in one turn. I'd be pretty precise. Also, say you do hit them. As ice said, most Levi players will somehow create 2 waifs. For this exact reason. One waif makes the game for the Levi player way to risky. These are, of course, just my personal opinions. Nothing personal towards anyone. I'm just trying to defend Levi so my friend who has Bad Juju can't wipe me out in one turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 That's what I mean, If you are at least 7" away you ARE 7" away, from said model. So mathematically 7" inch range should be just exactly enough to hit someone who is at least 7" away. For example, my model has a 8" charge range and a 1" melee range, and your model is exactly 9" away should I not be able to mathematically hit them? So juju gets placed AT LEAST 7" away. His 4" walk plus his 3" pulse is AT LEAST 7", or all the math I learned in my life was for nothing. Cause the last time I checked 4+3=7 not 6.99999 forever. But I'm done thrashing this post with nonsense. Sorry to the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 7 = 6.9999(forever) you can prove that mathematically On a more serious note: If you are 7" away from something they are not within 7" as they have to be per the measuring rules on page 13, and you can never move 4" straight towards two models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemantis99 Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Point is, you can't hit both. Hell, give me a day, ill draw a few diagrams, just to work it out. You can hit one model with landslide, that I agree with. If I'm 7 away, move 7, I'm back where i started. problem is, with 2 models, you're not moving directly towards both, you're approaching on a diagonal, which increases your distance according go the pyth theorem. Basically, the farther apart the two enemy models are on a straight line, assuming youre directly between them in a triangle shape, the longer the minimum equal distance you can attain between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvatarForm Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Mathematically, and with a diagram, this IS possible, but not the best case scenario for dealing with Levi, nor is it a LEVI BREAKER... sorry. EDIT: To add to this, it requires anumber of things. -Levi and Waif deployed parallel to the board edge. This way Waif is not obscuring Levi so that Juju can be summoned between them, approximately 7" from both, but 5.12" from the line directly between them. -Your opponent (Levi) being an utter retard. Edited September 13, 2010 by AvatarForm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 That exactly what I'm saying, it is situational. If the waif is summoned, it is in a 6" aura technically around Levi. Somewhere in that aria, Levi and the waif are exactly parallel with each other. So measuring from both models andtmaking sure your exactly 7" away from both, placing juju in between them 7" away, you are still 7" away from both of them on an angle. So walking directly towards the middle of them will put 3" between you and both of them. I'm a Levi player too, and like I said it is situational. I would hate for someone to do this to me. But there are thing players will have to do to get around things. Like for this, place models closer to Levi so when juju is deployed 7" away he can't get to the waif, there are easy ways to get around this, I just wanted to enlighten the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Wow.. You might want to read this. And consider this: The distance between Juju and Leveticus after Jujus move will be more than 3" unless you move directly towards Leveticus. You cannot move directly towards Leveticus AND his Waif at the same time. Even IF you move 4" straight at Leveticus you will not get any part of his base to be within 3". So he will NOT be in range of the pulse. Edited September 13, 2010 by Wodschow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 That exactly what I'm saying, it is situational. If the waif is summoned, it is in a 6" aura technically around Levi. Somewhere in that aria, Levi and the waif are exactly parallel with each other. So measuring from both models andtmaking sure your exactly 7" away from both, placing juju in between them 7" away, you are still 7" away from both of them on an angle. So walking directly towards the middle of them will put 3" between you and both of them. Your math is uterly wrong. As it was stated a few times by others. You have to move directly towards one model to hurt him with landslide. But nobody else will be in that aura since you can only deploy at least 7" away from any enemy model. So if you move on the line between Levy and the Waif 4", then you will be more than 3" away from both. Just place it on board and measure, you will see! Anyway 1-2 cleverly placed models will deny you to place the Juju within 7" of either Levi or the Waif. So you won't get even one of them. Sorry man, but your Levi destroying strategy is not working at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Here is a diagram. More to come There's tons of things that stops this but there's proof. Edited September 13, 2010 by Iamwyrd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Like I said.. Read the wiki entry on triangle inequality. The distance you have marked as 3" will always be more than 3".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geckilian Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Erm, when you made that diagram, surely you noticed the 3" you wrote isn't actually 3"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnam Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 In the diagram above the Bad Juju should be around 3.5" from either model if you move at the point directly between the two of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geckilian Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Seriously, draw it out exactly with a ruler and compass to show the areas you cannot be placed. He will be more than 3" away after moving 4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 I don't know how. So you are telling me that all the math, and geometry that learned in all my college and high-school careers is false. So 7" isn't 7" anymore. Juju is summoned 7" away, meaning he is 7" away. Or am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geckilian Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) He is 7" away, yes. If he moves 4" directly towards a model, he is then 3" away. However, if he moves directly towards Leveticus, he is further than 3" away from the waif, as she is in another direction. Similarly, if he moves 4" towards the waif, he is 3" away from the waif, but further than 3" away from Leveticus. What you were taught is not wrong, 4 plus 3 is indeed 7. However moving 4" towards -both- Leveticus and the waif puts him further than 3" away, as he is not moving -directly- towards them, but rather to a mid-point between them. Edit: Here is your diagram, drawn with a ruler and compass, complete with actual measurements. As the picture hopefully shows, moving down one of the 7" lines towards W(aif) or L(eveticus) would put you 3" away from that model, but further from the other. Moving to the middle leaves you more than 3" from both. Edited September 13, 2010 by Geckilian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Here is a diagram. More to come There's tons of things that stops this but there's proof. i disagree. the calculations are wrong regarding your geometry. If you actually measure it and draw the triangle out ( a 7" isosceles triangle with a 6" base); mark off a point 4" down the midline, then draw 2 vectors from the center point to the base corners, the range from the center point actually comes out to just over 3 3/4". Anybody out there with Auto-CAD that can post exact figures and diagrams? The principle here is you're starting with a 7" distance but taking a "detour" to get there. By virtue of taking any deviated path off that straight line, you will always add distance to get to the final destination. Conversely, as a Wide Receiver, I can run a directly diagonal downfield for a touchdown pass or I can run 20 yards downfield before I cut in. I will always make it there quicker if I run straight to the opposite corner... Neat thing with tabletop games, is it's easy to not quite keep track of distances edge-of-base to edge-of base, and at least in my gaming group, we tend to *-ish measurements all the time (except in tourneys where there's great swag on the line) because watching things blow up and firing off spells and triggering activations is more fun and valuable to us than being anal. Still, I think it's human nature to turn anal when your master gets pwn'd turn 1 :motz:... especially if you're a Levi player... In the end, just remember, we're not necessarily trying to prove you wrong, so much as just trying to protect ourselves and get great swag! I'd rather you be right, cause nailing multiple models at once always makes for great stories over a beer after a game.. EDIT: DOH!! Geck beat me to the punch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geckilian Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 EDIT: DOH!! Geck beat me to the punch! With my own diagram too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutcase168 Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Even if Levi and the Waif were 1" apart moving 4" on the line directly between them puts you 3.145" away from both of them. You cannot get both within 3" of Juju in one 4" move. Edit, what they said. Edited September 13, 2010 by Nutcase168 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 With my own diagram too. I drew mine out too but pics from my phone are too big to post here. Would've taken me an extra 2 minutes to upload to photobucket then link! Geckilian's the new Auto-CAD! By the way, anyone pwns my master in turn 1, you're buying the beer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geckilian Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Heh, I took the picture on my camera, linked it to the pc, resized it, uploaded to photobucket, then posted it. Photobucket can be quick if you're lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Alright so I talker to my math professor, and I'm posting in class cause she said I could. Gnam is right, I will be about 1/4 an inch away from both of them. But if I moved directly towards one, I should be able to do it because he is exactly 7" away. She said unless you are getting to the micropartical scale I should be able to achieve it. So sorry to gnam and the OP for trying to prove it wrong and discussing this on this thread. Sorry again. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berman Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Your forgetting the width of the bases. Badjuju would be 3.643in from each model at the end of the move. The figures arn't points they are 30mm and 50mm circles. You loose some of your gains as you move perpendicular to the line between levi and the waif due to base width. This is mostly due to the base being a circle rather than a square. Edited September 13, 2010 by Berman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geckilian Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 But if I moved directly towards one, I should be able to do it because he is exactly 7" away. That is true, but you'd be further than 3" from the other one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 So sorry to gnam and the OP for trying to prove it wrong and discussing this on this thread. Sorry again. Josh No need to be sorry! it gets us old geezers thinking about math again! At first blush I knew the logic wasn't quite right. The challenge was not only in figuring it out but being able to articulate it in an understandable way. All in all it was great mental stimulation... we need that every once in a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted September 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 If nothing else at least this topic has proved the principles of triangles. And that Geckilian (<3) has photo-fu. Even though I don't have (m)any plans on using Juju, this is informative should I ever find myself equidistant from Levi and a Waif (or anything else for that matter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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