Thoughts on Book 2 (spoilers on models)

[thaehl]

She really does seem solid, when I read her entry in the book I gained the same impression she is so fragile but all in all not a lot softer than a mature, I see plenty of potential but is it 13SS worth of potential we'll just have to test it out wont we?

[Sliver Chocobo]

In a 35 soulstone crew i'm thinking if using

Lilith

Nikam X13

Lelu X7

Litilu X7

Chreb X2 can't rember the exatic amount but i'm sure it's 2

and 2 terror tots X6

First turn will about slowly moving into play and Nikam killing the terror tot getting two blood counter (i'm sure one of her many (0) involve her taking so much many wounds to get a blood counter if not blood from stone) so i can fully mature my other terror tot

that or simply go with

Lilith

Nikam X13

Mature X 10

Chreb X2 can't rember the exatic amount but i'm sure it's 2

and 3 terror tots X9

Edit

I did come up with a better idea of

Lilith

4 terror tots

Nikam

Litilu

and a chreb

witch make either 34/35 soulstones depemding on the cost to chreb

by killing the two terror tots i can get four blood counter enough to mature a terror tot and make a Lelu out of the other

Any adivice on this would be helpful thanks

Edited August 12, 2010 by Sliver Chocobo
Added another list

[ilikepizza]

well, killing that many tots might not be necesary, after all, you can inflict four wounds on nikam for a blood ounter, providing you do this 1st turn, she should be fine, after all she does have regen, also, i'd be tempted to keep the tots alive, just because if you use her (0) action to give all nephs within 6" an extra mask, then theyll be growing on a 5 or more on any suit (so you could sprint for a 10-15 inch move then grow). also, if you inted on just killing the terror tots, dont take em,.

I'd suggest this

Lilith

3 tots

cherub

Nikam

lilitu

(btw, cherub is 2) i think that adds to 31?

that means lilith maxes out on ss, so, 1st turn goes something like this

Nikam sacrifies 4 wounds, gains 1 counter, and then does 6" mask aura thingy

Lilith does blood from stone using 4 ss and gets 2 blood counters.

That means you have 3 blood counters straight off the bat, and nikam will regen those wounds in a few turns, so you can choose to grow all the terror

tots in one go, or grow some and summon lelu.

hope that helps.

also, think of it like this, youngs cost 6 ss

terrotots cost 3

it costs 2 ss. for lilith to blood from stone, which means, with Nikam, it is now completely feasible to get young nephilim for 5ss by growing them.

I've been doing this for a while now, but Nikam is gonna make it way easier by giving out the extra mask and the plus 4 to grow/mature castings

[goblyn13]

I think you all are forgetting the Black Blood Shaman, he's the true Nephilim support model.

[Sliver Chocobo]

That is true ilikepizza, however Nikam gains blood whenever any living/Undead model is killed within 3" of her, regardless of whether she's doing the killing, so killing a terror tot + drain blood gets two blood countes for 3 soul stone, so killing four of them gets me 4 blood counters for six soulstones if i used blood from stone that would have costed me eight soulstones and to summon lelu, i need a blood counter

How thanks for the input

and goblin13, i think he costs eght i and dont have enough points to run him (we play to 35 soulstones)

Edited August 12, 2010 by Sliver Chocobo

[dgraz]

do people not find it a bit 'wyrd' (sorry, couldn't resist ) that Nikam has more synergy with nephilim than their actual master??

I'm just going to guess that this is because this book was written (obviously) after the first one so they had more time to develop ideas like alot of nikam's abilities that were mentioned.

It's also fluff-related. Many of the Neverborn took forms that would help them blend in with the human population.

[goblyn13]

First, its Nekima.

Second when you read the fluff, you'll find that Nekima and Lilith are sisters, Lilith was just a bit more conniving and manipulative with Nekima, was more blood, guts and gore.

[ilikepizza]

ok, i suppose they both make sense, however, I do think my original theory has something to do with it, being entirely honest, I'm not too bothered, I actually reckon that odds are that Lilith was made so she didn't give any huge benefits to her crew as she isn't a support master, more just a master to learn the game with and ultimately rip peoples faces off with (since rules wise you can kind of tell shes a stand alone model, as apposed to collette for instance). And, I think Nekima should be a better face tearer, after all, she is essentially like lilith mixed with a mature nephilim.

Besides, if Lilith were any better than she already is, I'm sure my local gaming club would march over to Wyrd's headquaters wielding pitch forks and torches.

@sliverchocobo-damn, thats a really soul stone efficient ay of growing, why didn't I think of that...

any way, that almost tempts me to do this list (30 ss)

Lilith-

Cherub 2

5xTerror tot 15

Nekima 13

adds up to 30 ss, do what you mentioned, (ie something like lilith bitchslaps terror tot, drains blood, nekima also drains blood). Then activate nekima, dump masks on everyones casting within 6", take 4 wounds off to get a blood counter, then sprint all the remaining tots (for a min of 10") and grow 3 of them straight off the bat.

the only problem with a crew like this is:

1, you have to buy 2 blisters of terror tots

2, you have to buy 2 blisters of young neph

3, you have to buy 2 blisters of mature neph

since this is probably the most likely list where you will end up having 2 matures on the board by the end of the game, starting from tots.

well, i give you credit sir:worship:, your tot slaying idea is genius ...and will be stolen...:suspiciou

[icemantis99]

That is true ilikepizza, however Nikam gains blood whenever any living/Undead model is killed within 3" of her, regardless of whether she's doing the killing, so killing a terror tot + drain blood gets two blood countes for 3 soul stone, so killing four of them gets me 4 blood counters for six soulstones if i used blood from stone that would have costed me eight soulstones and to summon lelu, i need a blood counter

How thanks for the input

and goblin13, i think he costs eght i and dont have enough points to run him (we play to 35 soulstones)

Unfortunately, as of Book 2, a model can no longer produce more counters/effects than it's base size (30mm=1, 40mm=2, 50mm=3) upon being killed/sacrificed.

So killing a terror tot nets you one single Blood Counter, I think.

its the "Rule of Equivalency", pg. 34 of Book 2.

[ilikepizza]

@icemantis-wait...this makes me the genius?(!):twitch:

well, i supose that makes sense, otherwise it would be a tad bent, so, i suppose my list may look more like this...

lilith

cherub

4 tots

nikam

that'll leave me on a starting total of 7ss, so, i can blood from stone once, bleed 4 wounds of nikam once, and eat another terror tot and the grow the three remaining ones.

plus, this does end up leaving lilith with a not too shabby 5 soul stones.

on a side note, i find it rather amusing that Wyrd has a smiley for canabis.

edit: actually, ive just realised that eating a tot to grow it is in no way shape or form beneficial, I may as well just start with three tots and a young nephilim, or, 3 tots and either lilitu or lelu, can someone tell me a little more about them? I'm not asking for solid stat lines etc, but stuff like saying it has a stat line similar to such and such and maybe giving some insight into a fe abilities would be cool. Its just I have to find appropriate proxies for a tourney thats gonna be happening soon, and I plan on spending alot of time painting my models (for example, lilith took me four days to paint-addmittedly, I didn't solidly paint her for four days but you catch my drift) this also means i don't need another blister of terror tots. YAY!!!!

(actually, thats a pain in the ass, cos i already gave the money to my mate yesterday to buy me more terrortots and i have no way of contacting him, balls, oh well nvm, an never have too much of a good thing)

ofc to fit lelu OR lilitu in, id have to drop the cherub, is it worth doing for that? from what ive gathered, if you have one, you can summon the other, which is very, very nice, and all in all probably worth the sacrifice.

I also like the sound o f this black blood shaman too...

Edited August 13, 2010 by ilikepizza

[icemantis99]

Nekima. Three syllables. Personally, I tried a run with her, and I had Lilith in the back slapping down 1 Tot, then growing another (Just remember to position the tots within 10" of Nekima to get the easy grow ability.) while Nekima murdered what she could out front. It let me send Young into the fray so that nekima didn't get slaughtered, and then the next turn Mature them with the Counters Nekima had picked up the round before. It's was a pretty good assembly-line, made easier by the fact that if anything tried to outposition me, Nekima just used Growth Spurt and my whole army flew across the board to reposition.

Worked out pretty well!

[ilikepizza]

sounds very much like nekima is gonna be great, and will likely push many peoples mature nephilim out the list to acomadate points for her, perhaps wyrd will use this as a reason to release nekima in november or december, after all, nekima would make a good christmas present...of course, theres cookies in it for eric and nathan if they make it happen...

Anywho, I swear your just torturing me ice mantis damn you!

can you just give me something to work off of with lilitu and lelu, even if its just telling me how to summon the other one onto the field, I just imagine, for 7 ss, they must have some nice abilities.

ahh...you spotted my 'puzzle', I was trying to make an anagram to see if anyone could solve it and left out the e...errr..well done i guess. I did it completely on purpose:suspiciou

Edited August 13, 2010 by ilikepizza

[Sliver Chocobo]

Unfortunately, as of Book 2, a model can no longer produce more counters/effects than it's base size (30mm=1, 40mm=2, 50mm=3) upon being killed/sacrificed.

So killing a terror tot nets you one single Blood Counter, I think.

its the "Rule of Equivalency", pg. 34 of Book 2.

I'm going to need to read the exact wording on this rule, drain blood and Nekima's ability. i'm still disapointed by this:sad2:

Edit : Now thinking about it when killing a model it doesn't generate blood counters as such, but there gain through the (0) drain blood, or via Nekima's, also think of this way, there is graverobber on the table, one of my nepililm kills another model, it generates corpse conters, since it made the corpse counter it can't make any other type of counter, so does this negate drain blood altogeter?

Edited August 13, 2010 by Sliver Chocobo

[meechelley]

Unfortunately, as of Book 2, a model can no longer produce more counters/effects than it's base size (30mm=1, 40mm=2, 50mm=3) upon being killed/sacrificed.

So killing a terror tot nets you one single Blood Counter, I think.

its the "Rule of Equivalency", pg. 34 of Book 2.

Another question about this rule, so if one of my tots die with, lets say 2, counters on it.. do they not drop the 2 anymore and will only drop 1? Or am I reading it wrong and produce means any counters/effects that have not yet been materialized and the tot will still drop the 2 counters it carried?

[Sliver Chocobo]

Another question about this rule, so if one of my tots die with, lets say 2, counters on it.. do they not drop the 2 anymore and will only drop 1? Or am I reading it wrong and produce means any counters/effects that have not yet been materialized and the tot will still drop the 2 counters it carried?

Unfortunity blood countes don't work in the same way corpse and scrape counters work, when a model carry one dies so does the blood counter, it's why before book two i have never tried to activly grow or mature my nepilim

[icemantis99]

Effects are generated by closest model in range. So a model that triggered drain blood would leave 1 less corpse counter than usual.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Effects are generated by closest model in range. So a model that triggered drain blood would leave 1 less corpse counter than usual.

Nope the corpse counters drop immendity while drain blood is a (0) done after the corpse counters have been dropped

[Wodschow]

Then Nephilim are suddenly rather brutal against Ressurectionists.. Humm..

What about McMournings Dissection? And weird counters like Joss' (guess those are not affected as they are generated from strikes and not deaths).

Edit: Different people say different things now ¬_¬

Edit edit: Nekima's ability isn't a (0), right?

[wrabbit37]

Unfortunity blood countes don't work in the same way corpse and scrape counters work, when a model carry one dies so does the blood counter, it's why before book two i have never tried to activly grow or mature my nepilim

I don't think that's true - they're still counters.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11275&highlight=blood+counters

Was there another ruling to flip this one around?

[wrabbit37]

Then Nephilim are suddenly rather brutal against Ressurectionists.. Humm..

What about McMournings Dissection? And weird counters like Joss' (guess those are not affected as they are generated from strikes and not deaths).

Edit: Different people say different things now ¬_¬

Edit edit: Nekima's ability isn't a (0), right?

I put up a couple questions about the Rule of Equivelancy on the rules board. Hopefully it will get a little clarification there.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14433

[Extinction Angel]

Lelu and Lilitu function as a pair. If one is in play but not the opposite one, it starts taking Wds. But they do have mechanics to summon each other back in play.

The Lelu is combat oriented and the Lilitu is a caster. They heal each other as well and can companion regardless of distance. Both are pretty decent at their professions. Lilitu has Lure and gets a bonus to cast or channel it.

That should be a decently vague overview of how they work.

[Inquisitor Wall]

Is it just me or does the concept art for stitched together look like oogi boogi from Nightmare Before Christmas (one of my favorite movies, so Im excited).

[ilikepizza]

thanks for that extinction angel. I was wondering, do you have to have both of the models to start off with, or can you start with one but not the other and then summon the other?

[Extinction Angel]

You can start with just one of them on the table. it's easier to summon a Lelu than a Lilitu.

I had a chance today to give them a spin and WOW. I was impressed. I dropped two young Nephilim from my list for these guys and they have some nasty voodoo. At one point my Lelu was down to a couple health and within two turns was back at full health.