Steampunk Abomination Change

[karn987]

To answer Karns Question with Place:

You would place a Waif in Base to Base contact. Then sacrifice all Waifs in play.

We are discussing this.

More later from an official outlet.

:hmmmm: Hmmm so that would no longer consume the Waif he comes back from. So it doesn't change any of his mechanics then except he comes back in B2B with the Waif...

Glad to here their is discussion going on, now to wait patiently.. :twitch:

[TheBugKing]

And solves the "Slow from being Summoned" issue.

[jmp_mydog]

Just to put my two sense in. Levi was broken. The change to the Steampunk abominations fixed the brokenness.

This other change is a bit much. I have to agree with Karn in that it should be a place not replace effect. That forces Levi to move the waifs around and be aware of where they are.

The effects of replace really neuter him to much. Hopefully it's just a typo.

[Iamwyrd]

So that means you will always have to have two waifs on the board due to the rule change. Man that seems like a heart breaker to me, and I just bought Levi, waifs, and four steampunk adominations.

To me it just seems that they are Cuddling Levi in general. They made it so the steampunks can't attach to other cronstructs now, and now this. Man I'm kinda sad now. Guess it is time to dust off my ressers again and play them. Levi just seems harder to play than usual now. :'-(

If they would just change it to, " 'place' Levi in b2b with friendly hollow waif, sacrifice all friendly hollow waifs in play after placing Levi."

It means now I'm gonna have to bring dogs and Levi fodder just to keep him coming back. Like Karn said earlier, Levi wasn't that broken beforehand you had to figure how to play him first. Then he was challenging. It might have no been in context to that but Levi is limited also limited to what he can hire.

I might say screw the deso train and bring dogs and belles, draw the enemy closer, stay back and pick off models as they get closer so I can get corpse counters for the waifs.

Sorry if my rant offends everybody, but me just going out and purchasing all that Levi stuff then him getting the giant boot to the nuts makes me sad.

(End rant)

[Wodschow]

Wait what..? Leveticus is limited as to what he can hire?

Almost the entire Resurrectionist line, several Neverborn and Arcanist constructs and even a guild one aswell.. On top he have his own 'Leveticus only' set of models.

If he isn't already, then after Book 2 he'll certainly be the master with most options available.

[Iamwyrd]

Wait what..? Leveticus is limited as to what he can hire?

Almost the entire Resurrectionist line, several Neverborn and Arcanist constructs and even a guild one aswell.. On top he have his own 'Leveticus only' set of models.

If he isn't already, then after Book 2 he'll certainly be the master with most options available.

I probably should have finished the sentence you are talking about.

I meant to say he is limited to what he can hire and still be playable, ya he has the most choices but there are few things he can hire to make him good. The only thing he can summon is steampunks and hollow waifs, so summoning is out of the question, he has to bring what he needs. I'm not complaining, it was just a rant about stuff that lead to his errata hurting him.

[TheBugKing]

For now the Errata has been taken down.

Continue to play him as before.

Conversation will continue on this subject most likely post Gencon as the relevant parties are too tied up in Gencon preparations.

[Iamwyrd]

Hurraayyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!

For now.........:bitchslap

[karn987]

So that means you will always have to have two waifs on the board due to the rule change. Man that seems like a heart breaker to me, and I just bought Levi, waifs, and four steampunk adominations.

To me it just seems that they are Cuddling Levi in general. They made it so the steampunks can't attach to other cronstructs now, and now this. Man I'm kinda sad now. Guess it is time to dust off my ressers again and play them. Levi just seems harder to play than usual now. :'-(

If they would just change it to, " 'place' Levi in b2b with friendly hollow waif, sacrifice all friendly hollow waifs in play after placing Levi."

It means now I'm gonna have to bring dogs and Levi fodder just to keep him coming back. Like Karn said earlier, Levi wasn't that broken beforehand you had to figure how to play him first. Then he was challenging. It might have no been in context to that but Levi is limited also limited to what he can hire.

I might say screw the deso train and bring dogs and belles, draw the enemy closer, stay back and pick off models as they get closer so I can get corpse counters for the waifs.

Sorry if my rant offends everybody, but me just going out and purchasing all that Levi stuff then him getting the giant boot to the nuts makes me sad.

(End rant)

Yay the change was pulled! Levy is back to what he was. But the SPA change is there but it is a good one 100%. They needed it because of the Rider and other quick constructs. But I wish they could keep pace with the Desolation Engine and any other upcoming Levy models :/. Hopefully it makes it to the revised errata soon though.

So don't lose hope! Wyrd is a great company, they wont screw you over like some others =D They will fix it Im sure.

Edited July 11, 2010 by karn987

[Iamwyrd]

So wait, if the errata is lifted for now, does Levi get summoned again or put b2b with the waif?

[TheBugKing]

For now use his rules as written. (Unless there is printed Errata that changes something of his.)

If it hasn't had Errata issued play the model as written.

[Iamwyrd]

OK cool.

Thanks BK

[Justin]

OK cool.

Thanks BK

And as written...summoned doesn't cause slow the next turn!

:soapbox:

[Nutcase168]

Wow, go away for the weekend and a lot of discussion (but in the end no rule changes.)

I think people will still debate the slow part (namely those not playing Levi.)

As for the SPA, I fully understand why they can't keep pace with a non SPA construct. Hooded rider dragging 4 12" turn one before they activate was rather sick. But they should have some kind of 0/1 action to be able to keep pace with the DE. That way they keep up but aren't able to activate (barring burn out) until the next turn. That was the real issue, being able to activate after being dragged along.

The replacing waif idea was interesting. It forced you to choose between making a new waif or going for other stuff. But it was a little too limiting. If the intent was to make more waifs, let Levi still place with 6" of where the waif was. If the intent was to reduce the leap frogging, don't consume the waif.

[HandsomeDan]

All this errata stuff has me so confused. Just when I thought I had Levi figured out I read some of the responses in this thread and now I don't have the first clue what to do with him.

So thank you Bug King. I will just play him from his cards and just check against the PDF. Should make it all a lot easier.

[Killionaire]

The key to how Levi works really is that you need to nail all 3 Waifs+Levi at the same time. I'm fine with that. He's a strong Master, and it's a powerful ability.

However, Levi does pay for it. He has a low threat range, even with Casting Expert, and really needs to DIE each turn to optimally function. This really makes it easy for the enemy to put a wrench in his abilities, or for him to not be able to operate. But the key to Levi working, is that he is able to get two waifs quickly and keeps them for the rest of the game every turn, and that he is placed somewhere near them. His spells are potent alright, but the way that costing health changes it makes their timing extremely difficult if the enemy's on their toes and tags you for even a point or two. The melee ability virtually requires being able to remotely place near a waif, not on top of it however, given SPD3 with no charge.

As a plus side, his own person (via the waifs) are largely immune to attrition. I think that's OK, since his main synergy is with the premium-priced Desolation Engine set (IE, SPAs). But changing it so that he 'consumes' Waifs is really impractical and makes it so that the guy's just going to die. It's not hard in the slightest to kill Levi and one waif. Killing Levi and Two Waifs in a turn is a reasonable challenge, but not too much.

SPAs being allowed only to keep pace with other SPAs makes sense. That's obviously how it was intended, and prevents problematic interactions with future models.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Killionaire

[Kunanaki]

Reading this thread from start to finish made my damn heart throb. I like Leveticus, as he is right now he's fine, even with the changes to the Steampunks. If anything, don't make it so that he has to also worry about Constantly resummoning his life lines, as it becomes a headache and a half as it is making sure they stay alive, and then protecting them when he comes back.