The Future of FLGS

[Flikfutch87]

If anything, there are too *many* game stores. In the town I grew up in of about 40,000, there are two game stores directly across the street from each other. And it's been that way for a couple of years now, so apparently both are doing well enough to stay open.

[Q'iq'el]

If game stores can make up some cash by marking up a few products in a market they can't hope to undercut, why not let them? What does it cost the miniatures company? Maybe it will drive them out of business faster, maybe not. I'm of the mind to let them run their own business. But I'm assuming there's some reason for this industry standard that I'm just not seeing...?

I think in part it is a residue of pre-internet days. Back then an unscrupulous shop owner could have easily killed the hobby in the entire region by making it too expensive. Printing the suggested retail price on the box provided a solid reference for the customer and was beneficial for the manufacturer.

I don't think most retailers would do such a suicidal thing in the internet age, but every now and then we hear stories of Space Hulk boxes being sold with 300% markup and such, so the danger isn't entirely gone either.

And I have to disagree, I don't think game stores, as a whole, are going to go anywhere. I think the networking they provide will keep some afloat.

The thing is, in the current format, the gaming stores are the sole reason for their existence. If there's no gaming store to play in, there's also no gaming community in the area. It's easy to overlook it in a big city or if you have a good gaming store, but try to look for the posts from the people who struggle to find anyone to play with in a store-less area and it'll become obvious how much hangs on the shop's ability to survive.

Since they aren't necessary to purchase the gaming goods anymore, their survival must rely on something more concrete than moral support from the gamers. It's a matter of being practical, not custom or culture.

I know the internet can replace that as well, but to an extent I think it's cultural. I wouldn't post up a twitter in hopes of attracting random people to play with. I'd want to meet them face to face first. So, while a model like that would work in Tokyo, I doubt it would do as well in the US. It would still work to some degree, of course, but I don't think enough to usurp every game store in the nation.

Ehh, it is a way out for the gaming stores, not the competitive culture bound to push out good old times. You have to reach out to people, attract them to the hobby and somehow make the profit off your gaming store. Since the sale of goods is no longer a very viable sustenance (due to internet competition), the only thing you can offer is actual gaming space*. Sure, people will have qualms about paying for it at first, so there's a need to ease their way in - offer excellent terrain, keep the prices reasonably low and make the booking system effortless and really convenient. Wouldn't hurt to borrow the leaf out of online gaming services, like Battle Net, and provide automatic matching for guaranteed games either. In other words it's pretty much up for the businesses to create profitable venues and attract people with the means of social networks. There's always some leadership involved - it's not just random posting.

And the people you meet through social networking are random only the first time you meet them. The second time you gather you are "the gaming group". Not all that much different from showing up in your FLGS for the first time, after you move to a new city. In the end we're a bunch of random people on this forum, but I bet many of us meet at the tournaments and such and don't consider themselves strangers anymore.

*There's a lot of talk on some gaming podcasts about providing a bar with the gaming space and letting people drink beer while they play (as a way to make profits). Personally I'd rather pay for the tables than play in a bar with potentially irresponsibly drunken people around.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Q'iq'el

[Justin]

I think in part it is a residue of pre-internet days. Back then an unscrupulous shop owner could have easily killed the hobby in the entire region by making it too expensive. Printing the suggested retail price on the box provided a solid reference for the customer and was beneficial for the manufacturer.

I don't think most retailers would do such a suicidal thing in the internet age, but every now and then we hear stories of Space Hulk boxes being sold with 300% markup and such, so the danger isn't entirely gone either.

I see. If it's just a vestigial practice, why not get rid of it?

Eh, Space Hulk is a rather rare item. Or, at least, it was supposed to be. I remember GW making big announcements about the limited print run. Makes people go nuts. And even if it happens, so what? I say let them make their money where they can. Might even make Wyrd miniatures (just to use them as an example) more attractive to game stores. Win win. Whatever Wyrd charges on their website will be the defacto suggested price anyway for anyone who pays attention, but it causes no harm and might be a good thing for some. (as far as I can tell)

As to the rest of your post, yeah, people are only random on the internet for the first time. And they are essentially random if you meet them in a game store as well. But logic doesn't necessarily apply to human behavior, and I think most would prefer the store. Stores also have one last edge going for them: immediate gratification. You buy a model, it's in your hands that instant. People like that, and will pay for it. And there is a culture of people who never shop online.

That said, the digital networking with rented game space is a cool idea and would most certainly work, I just don't think it would ever entirely kill the game store.

[Sholto]

The owner has actually told us that if it weren't for the money we bring in, he'd have never allowed Magic into the shop all those years ago.

That explains why a lot of FLGS have gone or are going to go out of business - their owners are not being sufficiently commercial. Reluctance to bring in a product line you don't like but that your customers want and will spend lots of money on is a very effective way to make your shop just the way you dreamed it would be, but also a very effective way to make your shop an ex-shop.

I have no interest in MtG, but if I ran a shop and my customers started asking if I stocked it, I would quickly become an expert on it and see how much money I could make out of it.

[shekbo]

Interesting. Here in VT, there's pretty much one game store that's really good, and they actually had enough spare cash to buy out a run down barber shop next door and turn it into a huge mini showcase/gaming room, and it seems to have done wonders for their business. They recently came under new management, though, a decision not many people really enjoyed because the previous manager was a nice guy, and the new guy seems more interested in WOW than real gaming. We're working on converting him with the allure of an excellent minis game, though... he's already addicted to painting them, and we've got our best nerds interpreting the rules for him...

[Inquisitor Wall]

I have been on both sides of this argument. Ive been purchasing miniatures both from LGS and online for years, and I ran my own game shop for a couple of years before I sold it off. The two aspects are not completely different, and to think that you can run a store without embracing the internet is never going to work. I always found that as a brick and mortar store, I had to price inventory as competitively as possible when compared to online. This meant there was no way I could carry Role-playing books and compete with Amazon, but most other companies offer a 20% discount on things, so I had a club membership where you would save 10% if you were a member. This made people more likely to buy from me because they could get the product now, and the price was not much more expensive. The brick and mortar store did have the advantage of the new player. It was easy to hook people into games and get the initial sale. After that it relies on the store to be a pleasant, enjoyable experience where people can feel comfortable. This can't be the type of store where people feel they are the only option in a 2 hour radius and expect people to just come shop there. It's all about providing a service that people will pay for. Run painting workshops, leagues, tournaments, building days. The more people involved in these things, the better business will be regardless of the internet.

[Ciaran]

I have a pretty good working relationship with both a local game store, and one where I moved from (The Bay Area in California).

Both have said that it seems to be the stores that charge for gaming space that are the ones going out of business. Those that don't embrace collectible card games are also hurting, perhaps even more. The local guy buys entire store's worth of merchandise from people that have gone under and are trying to offload their stock.

I think the business model of ONLY providing gaming space for rent is one that wouldn't work given what I've seen. Certainly not in areas that aren't HIGHLY urbanized.

The smart shop owners ARE providing a bar, stocked with sodas, other non alcoholic drinks and snacks. Since that's usually some of the highest margin, highest turn over merchandise in the store that's not a bad deal.

[Lucidicide]

The smart shop owners ARE providing a bar, stocked with sodas, other non alcoholic drinks and snacks. Since that's usually some of the highest margin, highest turn over merchandise in the store that's not a bad deal.

I personally think that this is the way to go. Providing space is very important for a FLGS. And as people sit around, providing them with snacks is big -- and you can make a lot of money off of these things.

Bars and restaurants manage to make money (not all of them, granted) and provide space and food and drink. I would definitely go to a game store that was basically a restaurant/bar with your "gift shop" of goods, but mostly tables for playing games. And I know my friends would, too.

Right now, my basement tends to win for space and pizza tends to win for food.

[chaosobscuros]

I think the business model of ONLY providing gaming space for rent is one that wouldn't work given what I've seen. Certainly not in areas that aren't HIGHLY urbanized.

The smart shop owners ARE providing a bar, stocked with sodas, other non alcoholic drinks and snacks. Since that's usually some of the highest margin, highest turn over merchandise in the store that's not a bad deal.

I also feel that cross-merchandising is currently the key to the FLGS survival. I think most stores that offer in store gaming are currently going the snack route. One big push that I have seen is into video games, both new and used.

Bars and restaurants manage to make money (not all of them, granted) and provide space and food and drink. I would definitely go to a game store that was basically a restaurant/bar with your "gift shop" of goods, but mostly tables for playing games. And I know my friends would, too.

Curious concept. Are you thinking of a pizza/deli type place where you hit the counter, then go find your gaming table? There used to be a local movie place around here that served drinks and appetizers during the show. The seating was at tables as opposed to the traditional row seating. Many a great "Rocky Horror Picture Show" was seen there.

[Inquisitor Wall]

I have a friend who runs a pizza shop, liquor store and gaming shop all in one. He owned the pizza/liquor shop first, then added on the gaming since it is what he likes to do. He doesnt make much off the gaming, but he has 6 tables for people to come in and play. Food and gamers does seem to work well.

[Lucidicide]

Curious concept. Are you thinking of a pizza/deli type place where you hit the counter, then go find your gaming table? There used to be a local movie place around here that served drinks and appetizers during the show. The seating was at tables as opposed to the traditional row seating. Many a great "Rocky Horror Picture Show" was seen there.

Yes sir. The Arlington Draft House in this area serves food during the show, not just appetizers, and they have beer. The Alamo Draft House in Austin, Texas does the same thing. And it is totally awesome. You just write your order on paper and stick it in this area, the waiters/waitresses see it, take it, bring your food. Near the end of the movie you get a check. Awesome.

And I think that's a great approach for gaming. My friends almost always go to 7-11 before coming over to grab some things to drink, and then we hang out and play games/order food. You even have something to do when not gaming, and makes it more fun for potential spectators.

The downside is gaming tables tend to take up more room than a normal table and tend to have fewer people at them, as well. However, just like those movie theater/food places which charge more for food, you recognize that you are getting an additional service for being there.

I just feel like people are saying FLGS can't compete on price for gaming goods. Mostly, people are saying that loyalty because of space will keep them in business. I don't think people enter the FLGS business to become rich -- they do it for love of the hobby. That doesn't mean you need a place covered with dork product, though. A themed restaurant/bar would do great, in my opinion.

[rbiddle]

I'm lucky enough to live near 2 FLGSs that are both doing pretty well still. I try my best to support both of them over online retailers, but occasionally I'll go for the online discounts.

Both FLGSs often run tournaments or leagues with a reasonable entry fee, and I think that helps offset their costs a little bit, but not much. One has started selling drinks/snacks and offering fast food runs for customers (for a fee) and that has caught on amazingly well. It's pricey @ $5-7 plus the cost of the food, but I know ALOT of the local players use the service (I've splurged for it on occasion).

[Manicmac]

I am a game store owner, my tables are FREE to use. Do I have those that never buy from me? Yes, yes I do, does it cheese me off? Yes, it does in a way. I understand the reason, we are all trying to save a buck, but you are not playing at those web sites that are offering you such a great deal, you play at my store-free.

But what gets me up to speed rapidly is when these same folks have to show everyone the "GREAT DEALS" they get on line, including me! Or run in and scan through a rule book for several minutes then put it back on the shelf. . .they want to see if they should buy it on line!

All in all I wouldn't give up my business for anything, even though I am not at the "get a pay check every week" yet.

Most of my customers are loyal, and I do what I can to get them a discount when I can. I appreciate their loyalty and tell them often, and maybe even spring for a pizza now and then.

[Lucidicide]

I am a game store owner, my tables are FREE to use. Do I have those that never buy from me? Yes, yes I do, does it cheese me off? Yes, it does in a way. I understand the reason, we are all trying to save a buck, but you are not playing at those web sites that are offering you such a great deal, you play at my store-free.

But what gets me up to speed rapidly is when these same folks have to show everyone the "GREAT DEALS" they get on line, including me! Or run in and scan through a rule book for several minutes then put it back on the shelf. . .they want to see if they should buy it on line!

All in all I wouldn't give up my business for anything, even though I am not at the "get a pay check every week" yet.

Most of my customers are loyal, and I do what I can to get them a discount when I can. I appreciate their loyalty and tell them often, and maybe even spring for a pizza now and then.

I don't think a lot of people understand what small businesses can be going through. When they tell you about those great deals, do you tell them the great deal about being able to come into a place, meet people, game, and just quick flip through a book, all free?

Do you offer the snack/drink option? What tends to make you the most money?

[nilus]

There will always be a place for a FLGS and there are some successful ones. The trick is that the owners run it like a business first and foremost.

The fact is gaming is a social activity and if you provide a clean,nice place to play you will get bodies in your store. And bodies buy things. Sure some buy online but if you build a loyal player base they will choose to shop with you. It works, you won't get rich doing it but you might make enough to feed yourself and have a roof over your head.

[Manicmac]

lucidicide, Do I tell them? sure, I do, but there is always that 10% . . .

My store is a bit unique in that I am next to a pizza and grinder shop, have a Subway three doors down, a Taco Bell at the end of the plaza and Micky D's, Burger King, Arby's, Jet's pizza, KFC and Culver's all a very short distance away, almost gamers heaven! I do supply a micro wave and a fridge for pop (soda to the rest of the world) Top seller though, is water!

Hands down, so far the top selling game system in my store is GW's Warhammer 40K, followed by Wings of War, Warhammer, Zombies, Catan, and Supplies, paints, brushes, knives, glue. Malifaux is rapidly coming to the fore, no not just patronizing, it is true. It has the D&D folks and 60% of the main players girlfriends and wives wanting to, at the very least know more. My first orders are arriving soon and I expect the sales to climb after the figures are seen and held. The interest and initial orders are very high.

nilus, you are correct. I will not get rich, but I knew that going into the venture. I am lucky that I bought a store already established, and I am unlucky in that respect as well. The old owner lost interest in the hobby and business a year or so ago and it hurt him far worse than just closing the doors. that is perhaps one reason some went to the online stores. I am getting people back, slowly.

As I said, my loyal customers are fantastic, willing to try new games and products. I am also lucky in the fact I do not absolutely have to make enough off the store to eat and put a roof over my head, military pension keeps that worry away and allows me to play all day!

[n0valoco]

One 'gimmick' that my fav LGS in the Chicagoland area uses is the 'buyer's card'. Whenever you spend $100 at the store ($10 at a time) you get a $10 gift certificate. After you've filled a card ($300) you get a $25 gift certificate along with the $10 for finishing the last row. This also included secial orders as well as normal purchases. It's worked well for them for many, many years (and a fair bit of my cash). Repeat business is the key to success in retail and they defiantely have it.

Customer Loyalty programs do work, just check out Games Plus in Mt Prospect, IL.

[Lucidicide]

One 'gimmick' that my fav LGS in the Chicagoland area uses is the 'buyer's card'. Whenever you spend $100 at the store ($10 at a time) you get a $10 gift certificate. After you've filled a card ($300) you get a $25 gift certificate along with the $10 for finishing the last row. This also included secial orders as well as normal purchases. It's worked well for them for many, many years (and a fair bit of my cash). Repeat business is the key to success in retail and they defiantely have it.

Customer Loyalty programs do work, just check out Games Plus in Mt Prospect, IL.

I think that would be a good deal, awarding people in come around awesome is a good thing to do.

[Ciaran]

My LGS has a facebook page. We do a LOT through that page. The store I left in Cali used one as well. They both use them to organize events and share info, it's been a great tool.

It seems the important thing is to get people "connected," that creates loyal community over time. The same can be said about Wyrd of course. We're all more loyal than we probably would have been otherwise because of the community that we're all building together.

Just my thoughts...

[nilus]

Customer Loyalty programs do work, just check out Games Plus in Mt Prospect, IL.

Games Plus benefits from a lot of things. They got a huge store plus a huge game area. They are in a really good spot(near expressways and trains). They also have been there for 20+ years and have a very loyal and huge customer base. People as far as Indiana, St Louis and Milwaukee shop and play in tourneys there.

Plus they have me as there local henchman so that probably helps too

[hylentor]

I actually used to work for my local store before I started teaching. They survive by being a general hobby store (with an ever-growing slant towards radio control) rather than games only. It took us three years of badgering to get the owner to agree to a single gaming table, but at least it gets used somewhat regularly.

Some gaming stuff is always marked down (Magic, GW stuff), but I'm not sure if anything is going on right now - I worked for them long enough that they still give me a discount, but I'm ineligible for other sales. I'm hoping Malifaux takes off locally - I won't drive for an hour just to play a game (school is a two hour round trip, so desire to go elsewhere doesn't exist right now).

Edited May 5, 2010 by hylentor
typos pwned me

[Manicmac]

Well I am a game store. Miniatures, Role Playing and Table top. The Role Playing guys and gals are quite happy with the arrangement. They play at 11pm until 3 or 4am.

My son is in the store during these times as he is a participant, though no sales are made. If they want something they leave a note and I get it, or they come in during business hours.

I have learned and am learning what sells. Sometimes to my detriment and $$$$. But it is a learning experience and lots of fun.

I am not the only store with game tables in town. But I am the only 100% gaming store in town. Everyone knows if I am not supported enough, the doors close forever.