Gremlins Vs. McMourning

[Underbheit]

I've been having a hell of a time with LBD's Resurrectionists, mainly McMourning. Once that fool gets into combat range I get owned. He dissects me and then cascades with triggers.

I tried picking him off from afar but my gremlins shoot for $hit. In fact, Teeth is the only one who has a CB higher than 4, so it's really hard to hit him with any one.

Here's what I have to work with:

-Teeth

-2 Hog Whisperer

-5 piglets

-2 Warthogs

-8 Gremlins

Any help would be greatly appreciated.:question:

[zombied00d]

Seriously?

Pick a different faction.

Since they changed the creature type on Skeeters to Vermin, they can no longer safely cast "Pull my finger" which is really the only prayer gremlins have of reliably putting damage on the Rezzers thanks to "Hard to Wound."

Pigs are just not good enough in CC to overcome H2W and regeneration given their low CB skills (and terrible willpower as well) and you no longer have reliable card draw so cheating fate is pretty much out of the question.

So yeah, that's about it.

Welcome to the land of gimp casters and joke factions.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Seriously?

Pick a different faction.

Since they changed the creature type on Skeeters to Vermin, they can no longer safely cast "Pull my finger" which is really the only prayer gremlins have of reliably putting damage on the Rezzers thanks to "Hard to Wound."

Pigs are just not good enough in CC to overcome H2W and regeneration given their low CB skills (and terrible willpower as well) and you no longer have reliable card draw so cheating fate is pretty much out of the question.

So yeah, that's about it.

Welcome to the land of gimp casters and joke factions.

He's asking for help, not for snide remarks.

As to your mis-interpretation of the rules in another thread I'll repost the rule from the book here to solidify the Mosquito rule:

Page 25 of the rulebook:

# Pulse: Represents an instantaneous circular range of effect around a target, extending from the target’s base edge. It immediately affects all models, except the model using this effect, within the effect’s number range, in inches. All Pulse effects are immediate unless otherwise indicated in the description.

[zombied00d]

I understand that he's asking for help, but under the current environment, there's not a great deal that gremlins can do to "hard to wound" models without direct damage numbers Because odds are good that against most undead models they're at -2 to damage flips thanks to low combat scores.

So that gives the gremlins largely one option, the skeeters casting "Pull my Finger"

The problem with that however is that as you move more than one skeeter into range to hit opposing models with the pulse effect you start tripping over your own models which, at 1 HP each thanks to the ravenous rule means that when you cast PMF you'll likely be scrubbing your own Skeeters. Which means that even if your opponent had deemed them unworthy of taking the time to kill, he no longer has to because you'll be doing the job for him.

You can make a triangle between the target of the pulse and the skeeters allowing you more than 3 inches at the base of it so you're skeeters don't kill one another, however then you'll only be able to hit the target model two times for a total of four damage. Which is aces if you're trying to kill gremlins, no doubt, but it's not that great for anything over 2 points a pop.

So, it puts you back in the position of killing your own models, as existed pre-errata, however, now you get even less miles out of it. Oh, and each time you kill a model (in this case) you're providing your opponent more resources.

So by all means, correct my misunderstanding of the rules on this one.

[Underbheit]

Great, so I take it "Pull My Finger" is the best bet for wounding Rezzers.

Now i just need to get my self some skeeters.

Thanks for the useful advise.

[TheBugKing]

zomboed00d. Please keep the tone a bit more respectful.

There are a lot of things you can do in this situation including killing your own stuff. That is not always a bad thing. Also, killing the opposing master isn't always the necessary thing to do. Belles only have 8 wounds so two PMF from skeeters cuts their health in half. It's pretty easy to position two skeeters so that the pulses don't overlap. Especially with the skeeters Wk.

Keep one in the rear to make more skeeters. Rinse repeat.

[Monkey]

really the best plan is to send waves of cheap units on 1/2 wounds towards the undead to chomp though to make more units from. Even at 2 damage a burst we are needing 4 skeeters to drop a bell. ( assuming the undead are not all sat in a ring waiting on a skeeter to turn up) I cant see that as a game winner. The skeeters will be dropping fast. with in 3" of the opponents crew on 3 wounds. the gremlins holding no more cards than the opposition so will have to use luck to cheat the duels. we will also be needing to hold a few good cards back to cheat on pmf to even get he damage off we need over a 10 to cast.

Im also guessing that you would be using Teeth to chain generate gremlins to get sacked for new skeeters and more cards. you will be running with a hand of 7.

had another look to drop a bell we would generate enough corpse counters to let Mc mourning to summon another flesh construct

Edited November 17, 2009 by Monkey
sorting out typos

[zombied00d]

Yeah, see that was kind of the point I was trying to make. Between our low wp saves keeping us out of melee against terrifying models and the fact that we have pretty much NO answer for hard to wound we're in a bad way against the Rezzers.

Gremlins:

Lackluster melee damage and unreliable ranged threats dog the Bayou gremlins against the undead, with most of the Ressurectionist models coming in at df4 or higher, with only 2 models coming in at Df3. This means that more often than not when making ranged attacks against the undead we're (more) likely to end up shooting our nearby gremlins than we are to actually hit the undead.

Even if we pull off the 2X damage trigger, by the time hard to wound comes into play the best we can hope for is a 4 point damage flip, which will seriously wound any Bayou Gremlin, and likely kill one that's been hit by Whoops!

(I say moderate because the odds of pulling severe on a -2 dmg flip are about 1.15%, true your likelyhood is much higher for light damage, but let's be optimistic shall we?)

Skeeters:

Since the errata changed their model type to vermin, skeeters are no longer immune to Pull My Finger, so they can't safely clump up to hit the same target(s) multiple times, additionally with the gutting of gremlin card draw, they can't cast "Pull my Finger" reliably anyway (31.5% or so assuming straight flip from a 54 card deck)

Pigs:

Ah the great pink hope. The highest base damage output among the gremlins thanks to pigcharge's +1 dmg and +1 flip would make them an asset against the undead, in that they offset the penalty to damage caused by Hard to wound. But the truth is the pigs' low combat values make them just as likely to miss or tie as the gremlins themselves. And furthermore the only way to reliably produce damage with the pigs is to have them outside of the friendly radius of any nearby gremlins, which cuts down on their capacity to actually behave how we need them to.

[Magno]

I lost a lot of Rezzers to a swarm of "Watch this!"

The little gremlins die, but they took out a lot of Punks and Belles along the way.

[Fool]

I've been having a hell of a time with LBD's Resurrectionists, mainly McMourning. Once that fool gets into combat range I get owned. He dissects me and then cascades with triggers.

I tried picking him off from afar but my gremlins shoot for $hit. In fact, Teeth is the only one who has a CB higher than 4, so it's really hard to hit him with any one.

Here's what I have to work with:

-Teeth

-2 Hog Whisperer

-5 piglets

-2 Warthogs

-8 Gremlins

Any help would be greatly appreciated.:question:

Play to your strategy and schemes. You usually do not have to kill all the enemies models to win the game. It seems that that is the toughest thing to learn in this game.

[Dire Hoarcat Snuggler]

In my first serious game with Lilith, I lost everything but her (i.e. 3 Tots, a Mature Neph, and the Cupid) to 3 pigs, a Warpig, a Mosquito, Somer, and a handful of Gremlins (can't recall how many that was). This was mostly due to farts and "watching that." Oh, and I suppose the pigs did slaughter the tots.

~J~

[cerealkiller195]

next to making your army after the scenario is generated..

[Monkey]

Play to your strategy and schemes. You usually do not have to kill all the enemies models to win the game. It seems that that is the toughest thing to learn in this game.

you dont have to kill all your oponants models to win but you do need to kill some. Thats the problem against undead gremlins are up againts it on that one. Every master/ faction has a play style or hook that makes them work. pandora and Wip rolls, rasputina and pure spell powered nukeage etc. Gremlins Hook was card controll and the ability to hold a large hand of cards to cheat with to give them more controll and balance out the poor quality of the units. To make shure that you get the suite that you need for triggers.

It does feel that a fix was thrown in to cover an expliot that was an open breach of the core mecanics of the rules. But this fix has broken the core dynamic of the gremlins. If any one says humph gremlins have tasted the nurf stick and are now lack luster. we get an old guard response of shut up you are not playing right.

Saying that against undead gremlins tactics are...

Dont try to kill them and just try to do scheems.

Throw 3wd units forward and hope they can kill stuff useing a small radius 2wd spell that needs them to draw over a 10 to cast ( good luck cheating as you will need to hold good cards to try to prevent the skeeters from dropping next activation then then have the undead summon more units from the corpse counters.)

[Fool]

you dont have to kill all your oponants models to win but you do need to kill some. Thats the problem against undead gremlins are up againts it on that one. Every master/ faction has a play style or hook that makes them work. pandora and Wip rolls, rasputina and pure spell powered nukeage etc. Gremlins Hook was card controll and the ability to hold a large hand of cards to cheat with to give them more controll and balance out the poor quality of the units. To make shure that you get the suite that you need for triggers.

It does feel that a fix was thrown in to cover an expliot that was an open breach of the core mecanics of the rules. But this fix has broken the core dynamic of the gremlins. If any one says humph gremlins have tasted the nurf stick and are now lack luster. we get an old guard response of shut up you are not playing right.

Saying that against undead gremlins tactics are...

Dont try to kill them and just try to do scheems.

Throw 3wd units forward and hope they can kill stuff useing a small radius 2wd spell that needs them to draw over a 10 to cast ( good luck cheating as you will need to hold good cards to try to prevent the skeeters from dropping next activation then then have the undead summon more units from the corpse counters.)

I hate to bring this up, but some masters get hosed by others. You bring up Pandora and WP rolls, shouldn't Perdita win that everytime then? Outcasts have 2 other masters to use. I understand that that is not a great answer, but currently it's all I got. I admit that Gremlins are tough to play, but they are gremlins. Also proxy more pigs, try different things, just about everything you have should be faster then his. Throw 5 pigs up there and have them stampide about.

[Monkey]

I hate to bring this up, but some masters get hosed by others. You bring up Pandora and WP rolls, shouldn't Perdita win that everytime then? Outcasts have 2 other masters to use.

I feel its kinda a problem when the best solution to gremlins getting hosed by and thing that's hard to wound or tough is... not to use gremlins.

every one says chuck skeeters or pigs at them but without the cards to back them up then we cant get any hits in. and the core ability for generating cards is nixed.

[Underbheit]

Thanks for the great advice, all. I do tend to focus on my schemes and strategies and that tends to work, but when I play Rezzers I get owned by Mc Mourning. Believe me, I am not seeking him out, he comes after me. He can pretty much just go for my objective and meet me there. Then he dices me to bits.

[Raintar]

Basically what you need to do is save up activations until McMourning activates and then just swarm him. You need to use Somer Teeth so that he cannot cheat and discard his hand no matter the cost. Then at that point you need to just be able to tackle him in one turn. What will make it easier is using a pig to Bowl Him over towards your units so they can all get their attacks in. Remember, all your units have at least a minimum damage of 1! You'll be able to get him down with enough attacks Df 4 on McM isn't very impressive. Once you down his 6 soulstones he should be alot easier to kill using Somer Teeths a gremlins luck ability.

McMourning is a monster but you can get him!

[DireTrollJake]

Warpigs can certainly put out enough damage to drop them. Just takes planning. 2 Warpigs and a Whisperer to give them flight and reactivate gives you some crazy threat possibilities, not to mention the ability to remove corpses and heal.

[Tyrant]

Look at my very large post a few threads down in http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7867&page=13 the Gremlin list is full of really good moves and power plays, I have yet to play McMourning besides as the first Malifaux game I ever played, but I'm sure that enough piglet charges doing 2Wd each on weak should be enough to take him down.

As a quick note, use your gremlins to waste most of your opponents moves, the Ortegas are so powerful because they can go one after the next without giving the opponent a turn, you can pull the same technique off with the gremlin, just after the opponent is out of models.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Tyrant

[Justin]

Basically what you need to do is save up activations until McMourning activates and then just swarm him. You need to use Somer Teeth so that he cannot cheat and discard his hand no matter the cost. Then at that point you need to just be able to tackle him in one turn. What will make it easier is using a pig to Bowl Him over towards your units so they can all get their attacks in. Remember, all your units have at least a minimum damage of 1! You'll be able to get him down with enough attacks Df 4 on McM isn't very impressive. Once you down his 6 soulstones he should be alot easier to kill using Somer Teeths a gremlins luck ability.

McMourning is a monster but you can get him!

Yeah, the gist of the tactics you just mentioned works very well for me. Models with low defense and a lot of wounds/hard to wound gremlins do very well against. As you said, every attack does at least one wound, and I can easily pump out 12 attacks with my crew for McMorning.

In my experience facing models with a high defense is where the gremlins break down. At least, so long as the person handling the high defense model knows how to take out gremlins.

[Wombats]

Try only taking 1 Gremlin.

A well organised Pig Charge will make them walk to you once its done...so McMourning will have trouble using all his great abilities.

Sooey can help getting them closer so their Pig Charge overshoots nicely and also to bring them back after they've done their damage.

You should be prepared to stack pigs for the correct Strategy (Slaughter, Assassinate...or for fun) or crew (Lilith in particular will have your Gremlins shooting each other to no effect).

You can even run without the Hog Whisperer if you don't need to Reactivate to yoink a treasure token.

Although it reduces your ability to Sooey them out of trouble.

I quite like Walking a Skeeter 10", calling Sooey to get all the pigs over there and then Stampeding immediately, possibly even shooting my own Skeeter to death so the front runners of my opponent's crew cop the first Pigcharge.

All makes more room for more pigs.

[Raintar]

Yeah, the gist of the tactics you just mentioned works very well for me. Models with low defense and a lot of wounds/hard to wound gremlins do very well against. As you said, every attack does at least one wound, and I can easily pump out 12 attacks with my crew for McMorning.

In my experience facing models with a high defense is where the gremlins break down. At least, so long as the person handling the high defense model knows how to take out gremlins.

Yeah the gremlins will in hell facing a Bete Noire/Nicodem undead Bolster list. Df 9 and halved damage that keeps coming back, ouch!

[Pandora]

Underbheit,

The strategy should be to take out their cards. Always put them at a regular or negative flip, and keep no cards in their hand when you are about to start shooting. Use teeth to discard their hand. Sac a gremlin or 2 to draw up, and use your superior card advantage to kick them in the soulstones. If they get up, kick them again. The point is to win the scenario. You can kill any model you need to to achieve that goal. Or you can kill none.