dboeren Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I tried out Pandora for the first time last night and was very impressed. I know I'm not using all her tricks yet, but even just spamming Self Loathing and leveraging Emotional Trauma worked pretty well. I saw a three-headed saber-toothed tiger rush at her, and then break down crying and slit his wrists with his own fangs before he even got into melee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Goblyn, Ive been looking hard at the Doppleganger. With little work he can also have Lilith's 8 Df and her massive sword, albeit without the auto-:mali+fate on damage, buts range and damage exceed what it comes with... The only problem is that the doppelganger doesn't keep the abilities turn to turn, all his mimic's end at turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kealios Posted September 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Yea but it really shouldnt be hard to keep your Dop within 8" of whatever model you are trying to shadow. Besides, chances are, when the melee is swirling at the middle of the table, the opponent has some neat WP-Resist spell or ability to mimic. How fun is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 And who says you have to mimic your enemies? Imagine a doppleganger borrowing Pandora's self-loathing & casting expert. Or borrow Teddy's Bite attack and Hard to Wound 2. Frankly, I see the Doppleganger as the tool-kit model for the Neverborn faction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capcap Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Having put the doppelganger in a game I would say its strong as long as you have your master or another heavy hitter like Teddy close. One list I want to try is: Pandora: Doppelganger Teddy Kade Leaves me with 6 SS for rerolls. Well see how it does soon hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Make it a bigger game and add in the hooded rider. The Doppleganger loves that thing, too. (Wk/Cg, talents...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kealios Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) I won with Pandora last night against Perdita and the Ortegas. It was nerve wracking Just like in a game I won with her a few weeks ago against the Viks, it seems that Pandora is really an end-game Master. Pandora's supporting crew are useful but not overwhelming, typically. In a 35SS game, I took Pandy and Poltergeist, Kade, Teddy, 2 Terror Tots, a Sorrow and the Doppleganger. I had 6 SS in my cache. As in the last game, my forces were slowly picked off one by one. I had intended to turtle up and advance as a whole, since Pandora's placement is everything, but fighting a shooty army combined with the SUPER-AWESOME result of Rubble (!!) meant I got to advance nice and slow! However, as my forces dwindled, sooner or later he was forced to go after the meat and potatoes of my army...and as in the Vik game, he paid for it. She seems to do moderate in the early to mid game, where her tanks and melee guys get into position and receive their own punishment, but its in the end, when she simply cannot be ignored any longer, that she "catches up". I used Soul Stones mid-game when casting Project Emotions on targets, who were then ganged up on by both her, the Doppleganger and the Totem with Self-Loathing. Late game I used SS as Defense flips or Prevention flips. Next time I am going to trade the two Tots for a Convict Gunslinger. His ability to damage at range is awesome, and his Supression fire could be a nice way to get multiple WP checks against multiple mobs at once. I WISH I could get Pandy and the Doppleganger to have Companion! I know the Dop can grab the Totem's Companion trait, but the Dop really needs his two (0) actions to get Expose Fears and Self Loathing. Without Self Loathing, he is purely reactional, which isnt the best use of an 8-SS creature. Oh, and dont let him get into the open. His low Df can be baaad against distance gunslingers like Hans and Nino... [edit] Oh, and be careful about taking Kidnap as one of your Schemes. Pandy's list is only moderately successful at killing things via melee... Edited September 19, 2009 by Kealios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightdrake Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 I've been playing her lately and the last game I agree with what you said. She was late game and shined. I would set her up first by casting Project Emotion on any groups and immediate threats giving then (-) flip on WP duels. Also working the fallback trigger with soulstone flips. After the PE are cast out it is followed up with incite to start inflicting damage and control the flow. I use Primordial Magic as a totem which now casts Dementia on high priority target. The trifecta of Pan, Primordial and Sorrow to cast out debilitating spells can cuddle a fair portion of the opposing crew. Causing 2-3 models to fall back on turn 4-6 can really hurt your opponent. I save ss for this turning point to ensure my casting total is too high to resist and work the trigger. After this the incite or pacify starts working down the wounds. Support of the totem and Sorrow back up with her spells with Dementia to further hurt those not falling back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kealios Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 My biggest problem is the range of Pandy's spells. 12" Dementia, 10" PE, and 8" Self Loathing. Ick. Getting her that close without being scathed is risky. It also requires her supporting cast of Doppleganger/Totem/Sorrow to be close too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightdrake Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 A combination of terrain and fading memory along with Project Emotion has worked out well so far for me. Fading memory gives me my out with Pandora to reposition. THis is usually happening after spells are cast and incite/pacify is used. These (0) actions are the key part to move her back or behind cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendigo Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 I totally agree that Pandora isn't for everyone, and other than Leveticus, probably the most difficult and unforgiving master to play. This is exactly as we planned for her actually, to make a master that would be much more of a challenge to play. That little reply made my decision wether to start the Guild or Neverborn. And I'll certainly try some of the tricks in this thread. Thank's guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinNoKage Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I picked up the Pandora box a week ago and I've had 3 fights so far. Current ratio 2 wins (Ramos and the Vic's) to 1 loss/draw (Lady J - Match called due to time But it was 3 death marshals versus ). I've proxied a teddy for two of these matchs and seen some fun combo's with Pandora. I've not yet had a problem with Range as I pacify/incite my own troops and theirs to get the range on my opponent, Self Loathing, Dementia and Project Emotions in various combinations dependant on whats out there before pacifying/inciting their troops to get out of range. and when all else fails, you use it on yourself for a automatic 4" move. (You duel yourself...Pandora wins either way) Another point, I'm looking at the doppleganger and just looking at the amount of posibilities it has. For example, Emotional Stress and Emotional Trauma, make for another 2 points on what could be an already 4 damage should a target fail a willpower duel in the ideal situation of 3 sorrows around it, or copying Kade's lure and Teddy's teeth. Or worse still, 0 on copying Kade's where's teddy, using both points to shift the teddy, Flurry with the teddy's teeth, then use baby kade's ability himself to swap places with the teddy and using his Melee Expert for a third attack. The posibilites the doppleganger opens for Pandora are staggering. Question on Link and the Doppleganger though. Link states "(0) if this model is in base contact with another model, it can link to that model.....The link ends if the models are not in base contact at the Start Closing Phase." If the doppleganger gains link, links to say Pandora, and at the end of the turn, is still in B2B contact with Pandora, does it keep the link into the next round? And if Pandora pushes herself with Fading Memory, does the sorrow/Dopple move with her immediately, or does she have to take a move action for the link push to take effect? Admittedly with the fights I've had, I've barely used Candy, though I can see uses for her stood next/close to Pandora and using wail for upping the base damage by 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboeren Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 As I understand it, the link stays intact from turn to turn as long as you don't break it by losing contact or linking to something else. I'm also pretty sure that Pushing is not Moving, so you wouldn't get to follow her for free on a Push. Candy doesn't seem to do that much damage herself, but she's good for healing stuff with sweets and forcing more willpower checks on enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 As I understand it, the link stays intact from turn to turn as long as you don't break it by losing contact or linking to something else. I'm also pretty sure that Pushing is not Moving, so you wouldn't get to follow her for free on a Push. Candy doesn't seem to do that much damage herself, but she's good for healing stuff with sweets and forcing more willpower checks on enemies. Candy doesn't do much damage? she has Casting Expert and Self-Loathing, keep her out of melee and she can be making your opponents cutting themselves three times a turn. Not to mention against Papa Loco, she can make him blow himself up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totengraber Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I didn't think a push would break the link. I guess I'll have to pay closer attention next game. I usually have a Sorrow linked to Candy, one linked to Pandora, and one linked to Kade. Candy, Pandora and the Sorrows can pull off 8 instances of Self Loathing with the right cards. I usually try to use Kade's Sorrow to soak damage from a Charge or maybe cast Doldrums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dv8guy Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I have been playing it that the sorrow does not move when Pandy is pushed. So I usualy make sure to push back to it. As the ability says you just have to get back to it before the end of the turn. You can allway move the sorrow to her on it's turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinNoKage Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 As I read it, the push doesn't break the link unless they aren't in base to base at the start closing. But it's the wording thats getting me. I don't have a rulebook to hand to confirm but the card states "When the linked model moves, push this model into base contact at the end of it's movement." I'm assuming that means that Pandy needs to make a move action as one of her actions in that turn to push the sorrow to her. Which poses some fun movement tricks with the sorrow. Pandy+ linked sorrow. Pacify/incite your way to their front lines, make a move to push the sorrow to pandy, cast a couple of spells with pandy then push her away leaving the sorrow where it is.it's close enough to give an extra point of damage on the failed WP duels(Emotional Stress) and because the link doesn't end until the end of turn it can cast a 1 cost spell with Pandy still linked right back at reletive safety. I mean if the models are placed right in an ideal situation i can see an assasination with pandy. Push pandy right to their master, move into combat range to drop a sorrow off on top of their master. Incite/pacify the master to move out of combat range (2 damage on a failed WP duel due to to Emotional stress/trauma) Self loathing 2 times, with soulstones (most masters minimum damage is 1 i think, plus another 2 from pandy/sorrow chip damage) Even at minimums it's still 8 damage in one turn. Chuck the doppleganger in there with a turns worth of setup (Turn 1 copy link, link to pandy, sorrow links to pandy too. Turn two copy emotional stress and emotional trauma, make pandy's pushes to get in close, drop the dopple and the sorrow off within 3 inches) and you increase that chip damage by a further 2 per spell for a total of around 14 damage. And thats just from Pandy, if you have the sorrow copy Self loathing for a further 5 damage, and candy with a sorrow for, depending on ranges and weather or not the dopple/sorrow are still alive, upto 4 more self loathings. Thats a dead master and if you place the other woe's right, probably a couple of others as well.... one turn board wipe anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entiago Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Rule Book pg 207 Push a pushed model is not considered to be moving, and if a model is pushed out of an enemy model's melee range, it is not considered to be disengaging. had this memorized after a few games with Pandora- tried the slippery pushing models OUT of meele with Kade for free strikes and sorrows link- but quickly realized the errors of my ways- just had to look up page number Edited October 4, 2009 by Entiago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsquid Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I have to say, the more I read, the interested in the Neverborn I get. I like Lylyth for her agressive side, and i'm starting to dig Pandora for her 'mess with you' aspects. Thanks for all the good info in this thread. Hmmm, Malifaux has a LOT of female masters...8 out of 15, with only the Resurrectionists not having a lady with them (though Seamus does like his ladies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebiros Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Candy doesn't seem to get a lot of love here. I'd like to point out her Sours spell, which has served me well in a couple of games. Not only does she have Self Loathing, she can cast Sours and give 2 poison tokens to a model that remove a wound each time the model activates. This may not sound serious, but the psychological impact on you opponent is priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudokinetic Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Candy doesn't seem to get a lot of love here. I'd like to point out her Sours spell, which has served me well in a couple of games. Not only does she have Self Loathing, she can cast Sours and give 2 poison tokens to a model that remove a wound each time the model activates. This may not sound serious, but the psychological impact on you opponent is priceless. especially the fact that there's no resist to it. that and the free healing flips make her nice. i just wish my opponents actually failed thier harmless tests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtol Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 After a game, I think I like Candy a little better than Kade, and am looking into taking her with Pandora and some Sorrows for spell-slingin' face melting action and adding in some other harder hitters to take the hits (even better since Candy can heal them up) and beat stuff up. I'm thinking hooded rider or bad juju would be perfect in this roll since they are fast and hit hard. Any thoughts on alternate lists for Pandora that don't just focus on the box set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboeren Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I think Doppelganger fits extremely well into a Pandora list, he can mimic whatever WP duel abilities you happen to need at the moment so he's quite flexible. If you want to take a model that's not WP related, then I'd go with what she generally lacks, a beatstick. I haven't really tested them out but in my experience playing with Lilith I've been very impressed with the Mature Nephilim. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them though: Hooded Rider, Teddy, or Bad Juju are probably all viable choices too. I also agree that so far I've been less impressed with Kade. However, I would keep him if you're taking Teddy - even though that might only happen in a bigger game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebiros Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I just finished a local tournament with a Pandora list. Let me just say that Hamelin will now be in every one of my Legion of Sorrows Crews. This guy's ability to control models with Obey and Piper's Lure allowed me to keep the combat monsters off of Pandora while inflicting WP duels constantly. In my opinion, this guy is at least an honorary Neverborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasidas Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks for that Nebiros, I hadn't really considered Hamelin up to now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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