Xenon_Wulf Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 As the title says, I'm looking for advice about how to create large water surfaces for a demo table - any products you guys go for above all else and would recommend? Anything I should watch out for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elysium64 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I use Woodland scenics realistic Water: http://www.barrule.com/workshop/scratch%20builders%20paradise/water%20wasser%20aqua.html http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/items.cfm/Water Good guides: http://www.pwmrc.org/water/Water.htm http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/FlashVideos/PourWater.html Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I noticed on that description that it said 'new formula'. I'm wondering when it was reformulated. I certainly wouldn't recommend the formula they had 5 or so years back. I filled a small depression on a base with it and it looked all right at first, but after six months or so had shrunken to be a skin over the rocks at the bottom. This is the mini soon after painting, I probably do have a pic of the shrinkage around somewhere. (There are droplet impacts painted on to the surface, but you can sort of see the rocks.) From the research I did a year or so ago, it looked like the only stuff that for sure wouldn't shrink was 2 part smelly and noxious fume type stuff. I have a couple of other things to try that I haven't experimented much with yet, but one of them I think has more of a gel finish and you probably want a really hard finish for a terrain board. I'm hoping demonherald, moamoa or BugKing or one of the other terrain gurus will pop around before too long to give you advice much more useful than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieG Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I really like the Envirotex lite two part resin. I use it for water bases, and it dries clear. So long as you don't introduce too many bubbles when mixing, all the bubbles will remove themselves. It also isn't that smelly so far as I have noticed. The only thing you have to be careful of is you can't pour it too thick (but on terrain this usually isn't a problem). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malebolgia Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 @Woodland Scenics Realistic Water: NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The stuff is terrible IMO and shrinks more than my manhood in ice cold water. It just leaves a thin film of a plasticlike material the creeps up unto edges. It looks terrible after a while and I depsise it deeply. Envirotex Lite gets much better feedback. Demonherald has a good tutorial in the first Wyrd chronicle and he uses Solid Water (it's on the same page of Antenociti's Workshop that elysium linked too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon_Wulf Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Picked up some E-Z Water and some Water Effects at the model store yesterday - I don't think I'll need a huge amount of water, but I'd still rather like to hear more about people's experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLemondropDan Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 @Woodland Scenics Realistic Water: NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The stuff is terrible IMO and shrinks more than my manhood in ice cold water. It just leaves a thin film of a plasticlike material the creeps up unto edges. It looks terrible after a while and I depsise it deeply. Envirotex Lite gets much better feedback. Demonherald has a good tutorial in the first Wyrd chronicle and he uses Solid Water (it's on the same page of Antenociti's Workshop that elysium linked too). Crap. I guess I can look forward to lots of layers in my future I sadly just purchased some. I already opened the bottle, too, so I can't return it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elysium64 Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Crap. I guess I can look forward to lots of layers in my future I sadly just purchased some. I already opened the bottle, too, so I can't return it. I have actually just used some on a scenic item, liked the way it went on. I guess i'll have to bin it at some future point when it shrinks, will go and buy the Solid Water for my next projects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBugKing Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I've not done any real water work unfortunately. I've got a few things coming up that have a huge amount of water effects in them though so I'll be able to help you then. As of right now it's still a technique I need to learn. Deamonhearld's tutorial in WC1 is quite good though. The effect is also very nice looking. I have heard great reviews for PoorOn's Envirotex Light as well as Solid Water. Both will most likely set you up well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I use Envirotex. (It's what I used on the Origins demo table.) It's an epoxy, so the fumes are pretty minimal. There will still be a slight smell, but it's no worse than some of the paints we use all the time. I recommend placing both teh containers in hot tap water for a few minutes before mixing, as warmer resin will flow out and level better. Just don't use it when it's really humid, or you'll get a tacky finish. (Though, if that does happen, you can wait until the humidity goes away or move someplace with air conditioning and brush on a new topcoat.) I believe that the stuff Demonherald uses is essentially the same type of product (a two-part epoxy). My experiences with the Woodland Scenics stuff are all bad. Even when it does fully dry, it's still sort of soft, and miniatures' bases will leave marks in it easily. (It's meant for model RRs, afterall, and generally isn't meant to be touched after it's in place.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberhick Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I haven't had any major problems with Woodland Scenics Realistic Water, but it was on bases only. I've used E-Z water on a demo table years ago, back when PP first started and I was a PG, still holding up just fine, not so much the snow formula I used, sad really I was proud of that table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 I've only ever tried EZ water and GW water effects. I didn't like EZ water because it cooled too quickly to give me the level of control that I wanted. Plus I wanted a nice crystal clear water to allow people to see the bottom and I stupidly assumed that, although the little blobs were yellow, the end product would solidify into a nice crystal clear water...Wrong! :doh::doh: The GW water effect is ok, but you've got to put it on in very thin layers to make sure that it dries clearly. Haven't had any problems with shrinkage though. I wouldn't recommend either to be honest and I'm going to try one of the two part epoxy putties next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon_Wulf Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Tried a few tests with the EZ water. Useful due to the short time it takes to use it, but yeah, it's something of a pain. I have to run a few more tests tomorrow, one of which needs to be how well it takes color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 The Water Effects is a cool product. I've used it to make a fountain, to make small flames, I imagine there's all kinds of stuff you can do with it, but not flat water. When I was talking about a concern about fumes, I probably shouldn't have said smelly. My concern with the products isn't so much a noticeable smell as the potential hazards of chemical fumes that may or may not have an odor, but might have a negative health effect. One of the products I bought when I was trying to work out what to do with the Rasputina in ice scene I did for IP had some pretty strong warnings with it. Some general info I read on the Web suggested that just about any 2 part clear/liquid epoxy product is going to have some fume issues, and that some of the formulations have more. I can't remember all the details. I suspect I have a link to the general info, but I have a ton of links so it would take me a while to find. In any event, what I read made me concerned enough that I ended up wussing out and not using any of them. (Spraying outside or even in our garage wasn't really an option due to the weather at the time.) IIRC Cindy Dukino had to give up on her idea of casting more of her minis as she developed a bad reaction to the resin mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonherald Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 The deluxe materials solid water I use is pretty much fume free.... I use it because I keep bugs .. stick insects miantis and the like and anything with any kind of fume is adefinite no no.... also a four year old running aroundmeans it needs to be fairly safe... The beuty I find with it is minimal shrinkage and if carefully mixed crystal clear set.. I'm just using it now to do water droplets on a rainforest base I'm doing... the drawback is it's fairly expensive really if you need to useany large amounts .. I have just picked up an odour and fume free formula from my local hobby craft which looks promising.. done a small test in an ice cube ray and it seems to be pretty good.. it's called crystal clear..........It's designed for making Paperweights as well as floral displays... one thing I can suggest is to look at florists and florists suppliers as you find most of their resins are both friendly and bloody cheap not to mention safe clear and non yellowing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon_Wulf Posted July 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Thank you, DH - that's the kind of thing that's always good to keep in mind, moreso with my current project, as I need something that'll look clear and be solid when set. I've tested using epoxy on a piece of fishing wire earlier this week and was surprised to find it was still VERY flexible - I had expected it to be as solid as rock (which in my experience is the normal hardness of cured epoxy), and I do believe I had even mixed in a bit more hardener in the epoxy mix. Speaking of which - that test reminded me why I hate working with epoxy. No, not the fumes, although those generally do put me off, but the fact that most of the time you wind up with the stuff everywhere as it winds up leaking and dripping on stuff it shouldn't be on. My poor hands. I only hope I can finish that terrain project in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LavronYor Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 IF it is just for gaming quality and you need a lot, and the surface is already flat, then just paint it and give it a coat of gloss or two. If it is contoured, then I agree, with the Envirotex light. LavronYor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkdymnd Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) *Edit* Lavron Yor beat me to it by a second or two Quickest and easiest way? Gloss varnish. I have used them extensively on swamp bases in the past and I think they do great. Use about 3 colors of brown/green (or whatever you want the land "under" your water to look like) and gradually work your way out from light to dark from the shore, deeper water should be darker. Or you can just blend the colors to make a murkier or opaque look to the water. After that, I add about 5 successive gloss coats to really get a good gleam and if you notice in the first pic it actually slightly reflects the model. In the 3rd pic, I used about 3 layers of Elmers Glue, let each layer dry clear-ish and then glossed over that. Edited July 11, 2009 by blkdymnd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon_Wulf Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 It's actually for a demo table for Anima Tactics - there's a decent-sized (5000 people) anime-themed con at the end of July beginning of August, which has a gaming section, so the gaming store I where I work part-time decided to have demos of stuff, among which Anima Tactics. The idea is to have an eye-catching and jaw-dropping demo table. We have a great concept idea, now if only we can get it to work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetsamurai Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Since the convntion is right now, have you been able to finish it. If so, post a pic please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon_Wulf Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Nah, we still needed to flock and paint it - got stuck last minute with a contract job that kept me from working on it. We'll finish it though, we're just in less of a rush than we were previously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I have used envirotex lite, and deluxe materials solid water. Hands down the deluxe materials wins. Less smell (I can do it indoors) Less trouble with air pockets, and less trouble mixing it with inks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenotaph Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I've used the GW water in the past and it has the same shrinkage and creep problem as Woodland Scenics water so now I'm seriously considering trying to remove it and replace it with something else. Luckily it is on some resin bases so there is no loose scenic material to seperate. Has anyone tried to remove this stuff and how easy is it to peel off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexley Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I wouldn't be too surprised if the GW water and the Woodland Scenics stuff is the same thing. I continue to swear by Envirotex. You can even cast 1/35 scale Nuka-Cola bottles out of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBugKing Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) Or go nuts and really big! Envrotex is an epoxy and as such does generate fumes that can be a health hazard. Use ventilation. [url=http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/TheBugKing/Projects/Wyrd%20Games%20Project/?action=view¤t=IMG_4221.jpg] Edited December 4, 2009 by TheBugKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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