A new Iron Painter?

[supervike]

Hiya folks.

Is there interest in another Iron Painter?

I'm not feeling the urge to set one up (it's a lot of work at times!), but maybe after some discussion, I'll see the light.

Some points to discuss.

Do we like the current incarnation?

What could be changed?

Time length too short? Too Long? Just right?

What other things should we implement?

Are the themes too dorky?

Should we do something with teams?

How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?

Prizes?

Trophy?

Some sort of kickback to supervike?

[TheBugKing]

Well I hear that it takes three licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

I'm all for kicking Supervike. Wait... That's not what you said!

Beyond that, I'm not skilled enough to enter I fear. If you want to do an Iron Terrain Builder, well then I'm all for that!

[Moavoamoatu]

I would be interesrted in another Iron Painter : IP6 - The Revenge of Moavoamoatu.

I'm not feeling the urge to take part in one right now as I am too busy with other projects.

Do we like the current incarnation?

Yes that's perfect.

What could be changed?

I like it this way.

Otherwise, you could stop pairing people and only the best scores would go further. That's good luck or bad luck when your opponent is not of the same painting level.

Time length too short? Too Long? Just right?

Far too long : 2 weeks to paint and 1 to judge it lasts 3 months. You could let one week for painters or have less rounds.

What other things should we implement?

See above.

Are the themes too dorky?

The themes are perfect and funny.

Should we do something with teams?

I join the team with naked girls...if there is one.

What do you mean by "teams" ? How would you create them ?

Prizes?

Like last time or no prizes at all that's up to Nathan the Boss.

Trophy?

A trophy miniature would be fun and great (like Black Scorpion does). A Wyrd IP miniature looking like Supervike's avatar.

Some sort of kickback to supervike?

I prefer the whip.

My 2 cents on IP.

[Moavoamoatu]

If you want to do an Iron Terrain Builder, well then I'm all for that!

I wish I could be your opponent

[thetang22]

Iron Terrain Builder......now thats an interesting idea. However, I'm afraid not enough people would enter because a lot of people don't make terrain. I don't think it would be interesting if Terrain was a round of Iron Painter though. People would have to build a diorama that focused on the terrain instead of the minis in it. That could be fun.

The idea of teams could be very interesting. For instance, Bug says he's not much for painting minis, but doing terrain is really his forte. So...you get a team together, and all of a sudden Bug becomes a hot commodity for the team for his particular talent. If you could get a wide range of categories required for the competition you could see some very diverse teams.

Lets say you've got a round or 2 for tradition painting of a small piece, then you've got a terrain round, then you've got a round where you have to do a warband diorama (build both terrain and paint the minis for a wargroup or unit from any game). I see the possibilities to be quite fun and interesting that way. I don't know if everyone would be crazy about the idea of relying on others.

I'm also not sure if an idea like this would necessarily be considered Iron Painter. Maybe a new contest that was more team-oriented and focused on lots of different elements would be more appropriate.

[Commander Y]

Is there interest in another Iron Painter?

Yes, have some!

Do we like the current incarnation?

Absolutely. Plus, we can't have Noel running around saying, "Yeah but I won the REAL Iron Painter twice, not this new one for sissies..."

What could be changed?

Can't think of anything. It's a good format you've all come up with.

Time length too short? Too Long? Just right?

I read Moveamorateaux's comments, and have to say - you need to allow the 2 weeks. I, for one, don't have a miniatures store I can walk into and just pick up whatever I need at a moment's notice - so I have to rely on internet shopping and mail delivery to even GET the model - which takes at LEAST one of the 2 weeks. I'm sure others are in the same boat. Of course the judgin COULD be quicker... EricJ, is that room painted yet? How many Size 0's you go through?

Are the themes too dorky?

I would say they're just dorky enough...

Should we do something with teams?

No! Every man for himself! Or girls, if there's girls. I heard at one point, there were girls.

How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?

One... Two... ThrCRUNCH!

Prizes?

Trophy?

I just like the process - anything else is just gravy. Not necessary, I don't think.

Now, I'd definitely suggest waiting until after the holidays have settled down - so start the next one in 2009. Those are my only 2 cents though. Bring it ON!

[Darklord]

well im starting to feel aenemic so must be IP time - The Darklord Returns!!

it does go on quite long but 1 week may be too short i think unless you do more generic themes which wouldnt be as fun.

to shorten it i have a some ideas:

3 way pairings for the first couple of rounds would trim the numbers a bit if there are a lot of entrants. or even groups of say 5 with top 2 going through

have no pairings for the first round and the top say 25% go through.

the only problem with these two ideas are they reduce the chances for 'weaker' entrants

the other idea was have the first couple of rounds as normal except have anonymous polling (like RH or TT). the polls only need be open for say 3 days so would speed things up and give the judges time to clear their schedule for the later rounds. You could also add a peoples champion into this - like a best of show, and however gets most votes in this that doesnt win through gets a wild card.

of course all these ideas would change IP, so may not suit, but change can be good. WHatever happens with it i will be entering. (although last years finalists should automatically go to the semi finals!!)

@ Bugking, enter i goot to the final and most of these guys are far better painter - just use greenskins and youll be fine

[matty1001]

I'd enter if I had the time, so I would like to see a new one.

But come Jan I will be away in France for a month, then away to live in Italy in April/May so for me to enter it would have to be over xmas, but even then I'm going back to Spain for 2 weeks.

Come to think of it then I won't be entering...but I still like looking at the entries

[TheBugKing]

I wish I could be your opponent

Well I'm in something like an Iron Terrain Builder competition right now. The Terrainthrall 2009 contest is between the Terrainthrall members this time as opposed to adding members.

The scope of the projects are daunting too. Scarab is building an entire city!

So if we do in fact do an Iron terrain Builder it would have to start after march 16th 2009.

That being said I would love to enter a terrain building comp that you entered as well Moa. It would generate some crazy pieces I am sure.

@ Darklord - I may just enter. The problem is not that I can't paint well, (I can paint at a consistent 8 to 8.5 cmon level) it's that I paint at a glacial pace and the IP requires some amazing feats of speed as well as creativity.

The other complication is that I have so much going on with terrain construction right now that I doubt I will be able to come up for air till next summer. There is a LOT on the slate at the moment.

[Bexley]

1. Another IP? Am I to be dethroned that quickly? (Actually, I think it has been just long enough to have forgotten how grueling it is and think it's a good idea.)

2. Terrain Painter? :vb_devil: (Though, I agree, it would likely appeal to far fewer people and probably be less successful than another IP.)

3. Two weeks is perfect. I admit, Moavoamoatu has a point, but I think two weeks is as short as you can go and still reasonably expect people to finish. Commander Y's reason for one- if you need to order your figures, you'll need a least a week just for that. In my case, I have my son every other weekend, so in a two week period, I will have at least one weekend free to paint.

4. I would keep it exactly as it is. One-on-one pairings all the way, except possibly in the final round, as last time. But even then, only if there are a very large number of rounds. And truthfully, if I really had my way, not even then. The one-on-one aspect is the part of this contest that really sets it apart from all others, and is therefore the thing I would want toyed with the least. The grueling, long-haul aspect (while torturous at the time) is probably the second most important aspect of it. It's as much about going the distance as it is actually winning.

Though, I assure you, winning still KICKS ASS.

5. I'm certain that there are many people who would gladly help Supervike run the contest. I imagine it is quite a load to handle, but I would bet that somebody could handle the tabulating, then hand it off to Vike to post the actual results. Somebody else could possibly handle the galleries, etc. I'd offer, but I want to compete.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Bexley

[v22TTC]

Round 2 of the last IP was - without any doubt - the worst fortnight of my life in the last six years ... yep, I'd be up for another IP: I'll be that jack russel gnawing on Commander Y's ankle again ... and again.

I'll have moved into a new gaff by the next one, so hopefully will be able to give a better accounting of myself.

Not very helpful, but I both like it as it is and like some of the suggestions of how to change (not improve) it - I mentioned a 'people's vote' variation last time. I'd keep the duel format and I'd certainly agree with the Commander about not shortening the deadlines and for the same reason.

I'd suggest if you change it too much, to call it something else, coz IP's an Institution!

I think the themes should be as random as possible to maximise variety: I didn't like the pop songs meta theme at all - too samey in tone (all banal or cliche phrases).

Must be something in the air though, because I've been itching for a new IP for around a week now....

[waghorn41]

I'm new to this having only entered one IP but I'm up for another to help keep the numbers up. I'm not in the same league but it's fun and good to get the feedback.

[R kid]

If there's another IP you can count me in its about time i started to do something instead of watching DH do his stuff .Also with what iv seen of IP its good for developing new skills new friends and alot more if any thing it could be made shorter like darklord said do knockout groups before the finals ......

[Darklord]

@ Darklord - I may just enter. The problem is not that I can't paint well, (I can paint at a consistent 8 to 8.5 cmon level)

well your FAR better painter than me!!

[Peterdita]

I'd love to be a first round knockout in IP! I was lurking for the last one and would love to give it a go. I would appreciate 2 weeks as well though. After the holidays may help as well, I'm usually broke and super busy before hand. Looks like a great way to test new things out and learn from some very talented people!

[Bexley]

Getting an entry done over the holidays would pretty freakin' Iron.

[Morf]

Yeah, why not.

Any changes? Yes, don't change the rules when the game is on (like with a threeway final).

Any news? Maybe immunities for two best painters of a round in early rounds? That could motivate people to do their best in early rounds.

[Hinton]

Is there interest in another Iron Painter?

So it would seem. Not for me this time, though; I haven't picked up a brush in two months due to work and other projects keeping me far too busy to paint (and it doesn't look there's going to be any easing up for a while).

Do we like the current incarnation?

I do.

What could be changed?

I say: nothing. However, there are some ideas below.

Time length too short? Too Long? Just right?

The length of Iron Painter is one of the things that makes it great. Yes, when there are a lot of entrants it does seem to drag on, but that's something that people should expect (especially by now).

I would say that if the length is of great concern, you could always implement something for the first round where people are not paired. Instead, they paint their entries, each entry is judged (like it is now) and the top 10 (or 12 or 16 or how ever many you decide) will then move onto rounds where they are paired off. Personally, I still like the idea of pairing people off, no matter how long it takes.

What other things should we implement?

I believe it was mentioned - either during or right after the last IP - to limit the number of entrants to a certain number, but not to limit the number of people signing up. Those that signed up after the first 32 - or 64 or whatever - would be "Wyrd Cards" who would still have to paint something. They would then be able to take the place of anyone that DNF'd, thus keeping the pairings even and not allowing anyone to simply advance by virtue of their opponent having to deal with personal issues.

This option would only be available during the first round.

Are the themes too dorky?

Nope. Love the variety of ways that they can be interpreted.

Should we do something with teams?

I say no. IP is about one-on-one, head-to-head competition.

How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?

Depends on the licker, I suppose.

Prizes?

I think what's in place is fine.

Trophy?

Sure. It's been mentioned and I like the idea.

Some sort of kickback to supervike?

Maybe when I get paid. $20 work for you?

[Darklord]

Getting an entry done over the holidays would pretty freakin' Iron.

thats easy man, try doing it when your wives having a baby!!

[TheBugKing]

Heh, Darklord.

I completed the 2008 Terainthralls contest piece while my wife was in the hospital and almost died. (To be honest that was her doing though. She told me she would kick my ass if I didn't get it done!)

[Moavoamoatu]

Yeah, why not.

Any changes? Yes, don't change the rules when the game is on (like with a threeway final).

Any news? Maybe immunities for two best painters of a round in early rounds? That could motivate people to do their best in early rounds.

No, immunity for the IP5 finalists : they would compete in the semi-final with the best painters of previous rounds (in this way I could have some rest )

[Darklord]

my thoughts exactly Moa, just like seeding in sports.

OR, everyone who is better painter than me should have a 10 point penalty.

Lets face it everyone wanted me to win really not that loud american!

[EldinTux]

Or we could say everyone better than me have a 10 point penalty, that way I might be able to better you DL

[Bexley]

Whatever, Darklord. I'd say they chose the fun winner over the stuffy uptight Brit.

At least we can both agree that the French guy gave up, even though there wasn't a German in sight.

[Skya]

I

What other things should we implement?

I believe it was mentioned - either during or right after the last IP - to limit the number of entrants to a certain number, but not to limit the number of people signing up. Those that signed up after the first 32 - or 64 or whatever - would be "Wyrd Cards" who would still have to paint something. They would then be able to take the place of anyone that DNF'd, thus keeping the pairings even and not allowing anyone to simply advance by virtue of their opponent having to deal with personal issues.

This option would only be available during the first round.

I liked this idea a lot. As much as Iron Painter *is* about the long haul and the one on one dynamic, six rounds was just too damned long. My family started rooting for me to lose so that they'd see me again.

Absolutely. Plus, we can't have Noel running around saying, "Yeah but I won the REAL Iron Painter twice, not this new one for sissies..."

Bah, I still get to snigger at the woosies who only had to go five rounds of Iron Painter.

Now, I'd definitely suggest waiting until after the holidays have settled down - so start the next one in 2009. Those are my only 2 cents though. Bring it ON!

I'm with you on this one. I'd like to go in on the next one, but I'm not sure it's doable if it runs over the holidays.

How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?

What size brush are you using?