Brush Licking Rant

[Skya]

Ok, this is my I need to go off on a rant button. Brush licking. I know huge numbers of people who do this. I wince every time I watch one of them, or hear about it especially when it's referred to as as something "cute" and quirky. People, this is paint! We're not talking the happy little food coloring playdoh crap we could make with flour and white glue as kids here. We're talking paint for crying out loud! Artists have been going insane from contact with this stuff for ceturies. Half the pigments in artists colors have known ways of killing you, and that's without even looking at what we use for the pigment base, flow improvers or additives. Yeah some of it's labeled non-toxic, but what does that really mean? It just means we dont know exactly how it kills you yet. Maybe ten years down the road we'll find out. I found a great link about how undefined nontoxic really is: Eco-labels And that's just for things where you trust the companies to label things correctly.

One of the very first things I learned as an artist was to respect my tools, part of that respect is how to handle things like cadmiums, veridians, lead based colors. These are things you use entirely dedicated containers for because washing them out in the sink does not make them ok to drink out of. Getting them on your hands is not a good idea, putting them in your mouth is unthinkable.

So yeah, my entire point is that I like you people; I'd like to see you live long, healthy, productive lives. Think of me wincing when you lick your brushes, and if that doesnt matter think about whether you really want your insides coated with plastic chemical goop... cause that's all acrylic paint really is.

[orkydave]

Thanks for the concern Skya, its nice to know that t'interweb friends care!

I can understand where you are coming from, but think about how much paint/pigment there is when you dilute it with water to make washes/glazes - not much at all. Guess the point I am trying to make is that the saliva/water in our bodies must dilute it enough to not cause any damage to us, and I am pretty sure you would have to drink litres of the stuff to do damage.

I brush lick, but I will be the first to admit it is a bad habit that I picked up when I started and now a natural reaction when I hold a brush. Its still the only way I am comfortable with to get a good point on the brush.

I used to smoke a lot of weed when I was younger, but I haven't touched the stuff in years now as painting relaxes me a hell of a lot more than smoking did! (well, until golden demon and iron painter that is!) I am not a gambling man but I would bet everything I have that licking a tiny bit of paint from the tip of a brush is better for me than tabacco and marijuana.

[Hinton]

Strictly from my point-of-view, I don't lick my brush. On incredibly rare occasions I will roll a clean, dry brush on my lips to make sure that it's holding its point.

I can kind of understand why people lick paint-laden brushes (I've certainly seen enough posts about it and Ritual and I have bantered back and forth in the forums on the subject), but I personally choose not to do it. While my level of painting may always remain in the lower-middle (or wherever), I simply have no desire to lick my brush and just won't do it.

[Vytis]

I suspect that I, like many brush lickers, use this as our method of obtaining a proper point to the bristles, and I do note it as a 'bad' habit myself. I try to avoid doing that with paint on it, and I certainly understand that its probably better for me to use a tissue or something else anyway. I'm willing to guess though that the aspartame in this diet soda I am currently drinking is probably worse, based upon the fact that I imbibe 144 ounces of the stuff a day. I do not drink my paint in nearly the same quantities.

However, I will note your rant and concern. It will probably benefit me in the long run to work towards removing my brush licking habit. Especially since saliva doesn't thin paint very well. And yes, I think I'll cut back on my diet soda too.

[matty1001]

I lick brushes when they are loaded with paint, its helps change consistency's etc.. (Im sure Ritual and EricJ will elaborate on this)

Not just when I need a point.

Not sure about problems with toxicity etc. but its never bothered me, and the amount I do it probably isn't enough to cause any problems.

[EricJ]

I've given it some thought and keep coming back to one unavoidable conclusion on the subject:

It's ALL Anders fault (IAAF)

but really, I understand the idea that this stuff was really not made to be ingested, and that even non-toxic things can still be unhealthy. However I am a bit under the impression that the small amount I ingest isn't a big deal compared to all the other things humans put into their bodies for reasons less noble that art:

car exhaust

tobacco/tar

anything deep fried

alcohol

tattoos are pigments injected into your skin

pesticides

artificial sweeteners

the list really goes on and on. So I'm not saying this isn't unhealthy, as I really don't know, but I'm saying that if I were going to make changes in my life to de-tox, there are bigger battles I would start with...but I only think this because Anders, basically IAAF

[matty1001]

IAAF lol

[Ritual]

Thank you for your concern! I know that "non-toxic" doesn't necessarily mean healthy, and the bottles of some paint brands say "do not ingest". As has been pointed out, though, the amount of paint that I WILL ingest by the habit I have is very, very small. When I lick a paint loaded brush to change the consistency of the paint it is more liquid going from the tongue to the brush than vice versa. I know people who have been doing this for twenty years without noticing any effects of it.

I will keep this in mind, though, and make sure I get as little paint into my system as possible. Paint doesn't really taste THAT good!

[Hinton]

Paint doesn't really taste THAT good!

At last the truth comes out! You heard him say it, folks!

His journey to the light side has begun!

(j/k Anders; nothing but love for you, bro - or "mate" as you would probably say )

[Skya]

Just keep in mind that anything not actually labeled nontoxic is *HIGHLY* suspect in the art world. A lot of the normal artist pigments are things that even in very small quantities can make you really sick. Cadmium and lead poisoning are just the common examples. Seriously, know what's in the stuff you're using.

Also a lot of the point of the article I linked to is that the definitions are rather iffy, here's some of the important points they make:

"The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) requires certain hazardous household products to be labeled to alert consumers to certain potential hazards, and how consumers can protect themselves."

"However, just because a product or chemical does not meet the definition of “toxic” as defined by the Act and CPSC does not mean it is harmless."

"Thus, substances that are still slightly toxic according to this common scale would not meet the CPSC definition of “toxic” and might even be labeled “non-toxic.” Moreover, a consumer could see both a "non-toxic" label and a "This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer" label on the same product since the threshold for what CPSC considers to be toxic is lower than that for the State of California."

"CPSC describes tests that can be used to determine acute toxicity in terms of doses lethal to animals. By their definition, if a pint of a substance would be lethal to an average adult, it is considered acutely toxic. If it takes more than this to produce a lethal effect (say a quart), then CPSC would not regard the chemical as toxic.However, a substance that could kill an average adult who drank a quart is certainly not harmless. Such a product could be labeled “non-toxic” and not be in violation of the law."

"However, many if not most substances have not been tested sufficiently to know whether they cause cancer or adverse effects on development, reproduction, or the nervous system in humans and CPSC does not require manufacturers to conduct testing.. Thus, while many substances would not meet the definition of “toxic” according to CPSC, we do not know with certainty that they are “non-toxic.”

While I can certainly understand that ioften there are worse things we can do to ourselves, for those things that are actually tested and known to be "nontoxic" keep in mind that a lot of it comes down to quantity of exposure. There are those of us who paint on a very regular basis. That's gonna build up a lot faster then in someone who paints a small army once in a blue moon. Also the thing is, we add exposure to this stuff on top of the pesticides, the artificial sweeteners (speaking of often truely toxic things) and while our bodies can handle certain quantities of these things, theres an overload point where things start to break down. There's a reason that cancer is something like second on the leading causes of death in the United States.

Anyways, i know some people just dont care, (people still smoke after all) and some people are just healthier then others, but really I thought it worth ranting about. There are chemicals we use in some paints that you just dont want in your system ever, and I've learned from experience that there are people out there in this hobby that just dont have that knowledge. They think because it's considered a hobby that the stuff they are using is perfectly safe. Hell, I know fine artists who dont know how dangerous cadmium is.

Anyways, rant over. I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Malebolgia]

Really understandable "rant" Skya. I had this argument with my girlfriend too who was concerned about my brush licking (I have been doing it for 5-6 years I think). Although all the paint pots say "non toxic" I sent an e-mail to Privateer Press in order to settle this argument once and for all (she has mailed Vallejo, but they never replied). This is PP's e-mail:

"Hello Marijn,

Firstly, let me say that we are glad that you are happy with our paint

line, a lot of serious work went in to seeing that product become what

it is and we appreciate your kind words.

Now on to the question at hand: is it harmful to brush lick with P3

paints?

According to current government standards it is not toxic to

lick, or even drink, our water-based acrylic paints.

That being said, Privateer Press must insist that you do not ingest the

paint, brush-licking included. The fact is, our paint, just like

everyone else's paint, contain dyes that simply are not good for the

human body.

Thanks again for your question and if you have any other questions about

the safety of this, or any other Privateer Press product, please ask us.

--

Brent Waldher

Privateer Press

Licensing and Contract Manager"

This e-mail made me cut down the brush licking a lot. But to banish it wholly is impossible for most brush licker I think as it is a vital part of their blending (it is for me). So I still brushlick without even thinking about it and then go "doh!"

Marijn

*Stands up*

"Hello...I am Marijn and I am a brushlicker"

Crowd: Hello Marijn *applause*

[matty1001]

It sounds like they are only covering their own back, sort of a disclaimer.

[Stupidcow]

I have to agree with Eric on his point that everyday we breathe, ingest, inject or in any other ways take in toxic stuff involuntarily. Of course there are people who do it on their free will.

From my point of view, the quantity of paint that is being taken in through brushlicking into our body is relatively small enough to be expelled out of our system without harm. Unless the amount is so big I don't think it poses any real health hazards.

I'll be more concerned with the air I breathe and the food I eat everyday rather but thanks for the concern Skya.

[EricJ]

Marijn, that seems a pretty predictable answer really, your question has liability written all over it! In fact I bet you couldn't get any company which produces any product (even food) to suggest that ingesting it is healthy. Even food companies use the FDA (in the US) to say their product is safe to eat.

[Wren]

I lick my brush occasionally after rinsing and before loading with paint. Even that's probably not ideal, but I don't use artist's pigments (and wouldn't lick if I did), and I clean my rinse water out pretty often. Just letting Skya know that if she should chance to see me with a brush in my mouth, it's not got paint on it. And I quit smoking over a year ago, so I'm just all about the health lately. ;->

[Hinton]

Congrats on quitting smoking, Wren.

Off-topic, but I quit smoking four weeks ago. I have slipped a couple of times, but nothing serious and I've managed to avoid falling back into the habit.

[Wren]

Way to go Hinton! And I'm really glad to hear that you aren't letting a couple of slip ups lead you into a why bother sort of mentality.

[Jubilee]

I've been working at slowly breaking myself of the habit of brush licking. I rarely do it with paint anymore (and as a result my fingers and nails are covered with paint for unloading/shaping the brush). I occasionally shape the brush with my lip or tongue after I rinse it, and sometimes I forget I haven't rinsed it yet. Anyway, I'm really hoping this year I can keep myself from putting a paint & take brush in my mouth (bleh!). For some reason, the idea of catching a cold from someone else is a better deterant than the possible side effects of ingesting RMS paints.. <G> I'm sure the aspartame in my diet cola is going to kill me faster than paint, though.. (or at least give me more migraines).

/ali

[r2-j1]

You guys lick loaded brushes!?! Freaks! I always thought this whole brush licking thing was after you rinsed to reshape. But licking a loaded brush, toxic paint or not, is really gross.

I never stick my brush in my mouth, at least not the bristles. The handle is in there a ton because I stick my brush in my mouth as I do other things. Jubilee makes a good point though, I better not do that at the paint and take.

[Hinton]

@Jubilee: I do the same thing: use my thumb to remove excess paint, use it as a mini-palette and help keep the point on the brush. Can't remember who it was that suggested it to me, but it has become a habit.

[lauth81]

When I was painting yesterday I couldn´t even bring myself to try brushlicking ... I´ll stay on the light side on this one.

[EldinTux]

It's nice to see so many non-lickers here. I have to agree with Skya. I am very concerned that people lick brushes (apart from the fact I think it's gross) there have to be chemicals in those colours that you only need a trace of to cause some serious damage not to mention the heacy metals Skya was talking about. As a teacher I am constantly trying to stop kids from brush licking especially loaded brushes - I found one kid cleaned his brush this way, he never used water!!!

Virtually everyone has a crease in their hand they can use to get a good tip on the brush - I've been using it for years - and nails are great for getting excess colour off the brush.

[Darklord]

yeah but brush licking is cheaper than glue sniffing and cuts down on the amount of food you need increasing the painting time!

[EldinTux]

I rst my case - the Darklord is encouraging it

[Darklord]

what you trying to say? just because my child was born with two heads does'nt mean it was brush licking to blame