Infiltrator?

[esqulax]

The ability Infiltrator on Operatives and Klaus is Ruthless on steroids, but I was wondering if there were other abilities or weird interactions that ability has that might not be immediately obvious. Does it grant Dont Mind Me? Can a model with it relent against an enemy attack ? Are there other things I haven't thought of ? 

[Adran]

On 12/15/2020 at 6:11 PM, Jesy Blue said:

Get used to saying that line when using the Operative, because you just shut down so many things with that one sentence. Here's a brief synopsis of things that the Operative ignores during game:

• Agile
• Blade Rush
• Butterfly Jump
• Counterspell
• Crossroads Sin Token Distribution
• Distraction
• Diversion
• Entropy
• Exclusive Interview
• Execute triggers
• Extended Reach
• Hunting Party
• Laugh Off
• Manipulative
• Penetrating Stench
• Pounce
• Protected
• Scamper
• Serene Countenance
• Squeal
• Stealth
• Take The Hit
• Terrifying
• Torment
• Vent Steam
• Wicked

.... and finally, opposing Operative's Infiltration Ability.

These a just a cursurary glance's highlights, there's probably a bunch more.

 

This is from a thread about them ( in the explorers) but in general I think the view is that engagement is not something they get to ignore, because the core rules are what tell you you are engaged, not an action, ability or trigger on the model, and infiltrate does not let you ignore enemy in a core rule. 

You can't relent either. 

 

edit- in the thread it was pointed out execute still does work, I just didn't update the list....

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

Since Infiltrator specifies the enemy model’s Action, Trigger, or Ability, it is restricted to the enemy/friendly text that is on the enemy model’s card. 

Engagement restrictions are checked prior to an Action, which is an additional reason for why it isn’t ignored.

Infiltrator only lifts restrictions on Actions, Abilities, or Triggers for being affected as a “friendly” model. Relenting requires being treated as a friendly model for the Action’s Duel (Step 4) and is separate from restrictions (Step 3). Restrictions are Italicized for Actions/Triggers, ie Friendly only or Forgotten only. Im not sure if Abilities have a similar specification for restrictions or if you play those loosely.

To that end do people usually play the ignore “enemy” and gain “friendly” the same (simplicity) or different due to gaining “friendly” specifically calling out restrictions (specific game term)?

[santaclaws01]

11 hours ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

“friendly” specifically calling out restrictions (specific game term)?

Special Restrictions is a specific game term, restrictions is not. Abilities don't have Special Restrictions, and it being included in the list of things a model with the ability can choose to be affected by should show that it's not talking about the Special Restrictions that actions and triggers have.

[solkan]

12 hours ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

To that end do people usually play the ignore “enemy” and gain “friendly” the same (simplicity) or different due to gaining “friendly” specifically calling out restrictions (specific game term)?

Doing so would be an error.  Do keep in mind that there's rule in the game stating that a model has to be either "enemy" or "friendly".  A model could simply be neither.

The first sentence says:

Quote

Enemy models do not treat this model as an enemy model for their Actions, Abilities, and Triggers.

That means that if an enemy model has an Action, Ability or Trigger which contains the word "Enemy" in it (it doesn't matter whether it's in plain or italic text), the model with Infiltrator doesn't qualify.  For instance, for Sandeep's Mantra (Fury), an Infiltrator on the other player's crew it's a valid choice for the phrase "it may choose an enemy model within 2" to suffer 1 damage".  No one has a choice in the matter, it's not allowed.

For the second sentence,

Quote

This model may choose to be affected by Actions, Abilities and Triggers of enemy models that are restricted to "friendly" models and/or models of a specific keyword.

I think a lot of the applications of this sentence are going to be area effect actions and auras.  For instance, loot a Kudra's "From One, All" action which states 'Friendly Elemental models within Range Heal 1."  If a Kudra model takes that action, Infiltrators in another crew get to choose to be affected by the action.  Likewise, an Infiltrator within 6 of Kudra can take the Concontrate Action, choose to be affected by Kudra's Mantra (Protection) so that it can be affected by "it may gain Shielded +1".

If a Shastar Vidya Guard was trying to deal with a Infiltrator on another crew, if it declared Follow My Path (hoping that the Infiltrator would qualify as "other friendly model"), that won't happen unless the Infiltrator's controller wants it to happen.  Practically speaking, outside of one player bribing the player to do something, the only time it is going to apply is for things like Obey's to use a "target friendly X" action on the Infiltrator.

Browsing around at random, the Abomination has an action with the restriction

Quote

This Action may only be taken in at least two other friendly Abominations are within range.

Infiltrator models do not and CAN NOT satisfy this requirement.  Infiltrators could choose to be affected by the next sentence's effect (if one player was paying the other player money, because the Replace step four side effects are hilarious...)

Quote

Replace this model and two other friendly Abominations within range with a Desolation Engine.

but it's still the sort of things that you wouldn't see happen outside of using Obey on an enemy model and then saying "Why, yes, my Infiltrator is going to choose to be subject to that because I have a fiendish plan".

 

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

Special Restrictions is a specific game term, restrictions is not. Abilities don't have Special Restrictions, and it being included in the list of things a model with the ability can choose to be affected by should show that it's not talking about the Special Restrictions that actions and triggers have.

Abilities do have Special restrictions though, check out Marcus2’s Pack Leader. Special Restrictions are also just one type of restriction.

That aside I do see your point, using restrictions only to resolve the effect makes it wonky. Infiltrator just seems like an overly good effect when resolved like that (hence the question), but I guess using only restrictions makes it even more overly bad after looking a little more deeper.

[santaclaws01]

9 hours ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

Abilities do have Special restrictions though, check out Marcus2’s Pack Leader. Special Restrictions are also just one type of restriction.

Abilities use the same format, on some of them, but there is no place in the rules where abilities are described as having special restrictions or what they are.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

38 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Abilities use the same format, on some of them, but there is no place in the rules where abilities are described as having special restrictions or what they are.

“Once per” effects details that there are restrictions for Abilities, stating that “once per” or any additional modifiers that restrict the Ability are a restriction . It’s pretty plainly spelled out and matches the metrics for Specific/Targeting restriction under Action restrictions. The language is also using “restriction” as a game term in the same way that the TTH FAQ established “targeted” as a game term.

As I’ve said, the reason for not using only restrictions for “friendly” effects makes sense from a playability point of view, but the rules based backing for why is sorely lacking.