Titled Brewmaster's Another Round and Hidden Martyrs

[Dominion]

Hi,

Another Round Action says: "Shockwave 2. Wp14, Poison +2. Then, models that failed to resist this shockwave for the first time this Activation resolve the Poison Condition as though it were the End Phase [..]"

if an enemy model dies for this poison damage, is the brewmaster counted as the killer or is it the End Phase Condition Damage so no one is treated as "killed By" (as per point 8 of the general FAQs)?
so, the enemy gets or not the point for revealing hidden martyrs?

 

Thanks

 

[solkan]

There are actions like Blood Poisoning (“Target suffers damage from the Poison Condition …”, a wording called out in the rules as subject to modifiers like Perverse Metabolism and Alcohol Poisoning), so that you’re taking Condition damage during the Attack as a result of the Attack’s text and thus still damage credited to a model.  There are similar cases for Burning.

As far as I can tell, this is the same situation—you’re taking damage due to the attack’s instructions during the attack, so it’s the opposite of “an effect not generated by a model” (what General #8 mentions).  Therefore someone gets “credit” for the damage and for the kill, instead of it being treated as “natural causes”.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think that the action doesn't damage via poison (like blood poisoning that actually says they suffer damage).

It just creates an effect (end phase poison) and then that poison damages you. So I would say no hidden martyrs.

I see it the same as if something pushes you into hazardous terrain. The model generated the effect, but the hazardous does the killing.

[Mortarion]

Sonnia's "Scorch the soul" attack is another similar example. It states that "Target suffers damage from the Burning Condition equal to the value of its Burning Condition (to a maximum of 5 damage)." In the FAQ (point 2 under Guild) it is said that "The damage from Scorch the Soul is both from the Burning Condition and from an Attack Action." The question regards modifiers, but the damage is considered to be from an attack action (as well as Burning). Damage from an attack action can not be considered "an effect not generated by a model". 

In my opinion, both "resolve the Poison Condition" and "take damage from the Poison Condition" would be considered damage from the attack that caused the effect (as well as the Poison Condition).

[Rufess]

7 hours ago, Mortarion said:

Sonnia's "Scorch the soul" attack is another similar example. It states that "Target suffers damage from the Burning Condition equal to the value of its Burning Condition (to a maximum of 5 damage)." In the FAQ (point 2 under Guild) it is said that "The damage from Scorch the Soul is both from the Burning Condition and from an Attack Action." The question regards modifiers, but the damage is considered to be from an attack action (as well as Burning). Damage from an attack action can not be considered "an effect not generated by a model". 

In my opinion, both "resolve the Poison Condition" and "take damage from the Poison Condition" would be considered damage from the attack that caused the effect (as well as the Poison Condition).

I am not sure if Scorch the Soul is that similar to Another Round. Scorch the Soul does specify to deal damage, which is not following the condition rule. While the what Another Round does is to resolve the Poison following the condition rule, without dealing damage from the Action. The corresponding counterpart of Scorch the Soul would be Blood Poisoning.

A more appropriate example would be Life of the Earth from Jedza. It is also resolving a game effect but not dealing damage directly. Will Jedza get the credit if a model failed the duel and killed by the Hazard effect?

[Mortarion]

14 hours ago, Rufess said:

I am not sure if Scorch the Soul is that similar to Another Round. Scorch the Soul does specify to deal damage, which is not following the condition rule. While the what Another Round does is to resolve the Poison following the condition rule, without dealing damage from the Action. The corresponding counterpart of Scorch the Soul would be Blood Poisoning.

A more appropriate example would be Life of the Earth from Jedza. It is also resolving a game effect but not dealing damage directly. Will Jedza get the credit if a model failed the duel and killed by the Hazard effect?

I agree that they are not exactly the same, but Scorch the Soul states that it is damage "from the Burning Condition", which I think is the most relevant part. Both the Condition and the Action are considered to the the source of the damage. And in my opinion Jedza would definitely get credit/blame for killing something with Life of the Earth attack.