Jakob Lynch, Dark Bet

[HomelessOne]

My boy's had some tough times apparently. "None for Me" to "All the Brilliance" is...

Credit to A Wyrd Place.

[Mindbadger]

I don't know how good he'll be, but he's super thematic! I love the fact that Huggy has taken over.

So, if I'm reading the upgrade correctly, now that Huggy is the master he gets 3AP. Where does this leave the new Jakob? Does he get demoted to 2 AP or does he keep the 3? The word "instead" on the upgrade is making it unclear for me.  Regardless, it will save you a few points in hiring now that giving Hungering Darkness the Silent Protector upgrade isn't as mandatory.

As for the new Lynch himself, I think I prefer Luck Theif to Don't Bite The Hand for defence and he trades his summoning brilliance nuke for a much stronger melee attack. He adds a bit more punishment to the bubble with Delerium which also is a pretty good source of ping damage with all the ways to add brilliance. Should hopefully scare people from getting too close.

The bonus action is similar, being a lasting aura is neat. He has some utility in the ability to heal and either save allies or drag enemies into the bubble.

He seems like he enhances the bubble style of play that the honey pot already has rather than changing it up.

The new minion is ok. He does little things, a ping here and there, a small heal and then when he has outlived his usefulness, you can cash him in for cards or soulstones. Doesn't do anything incredibly exciting but is also only 4 points, 2 of which you can kind of get back for soulstones later on.

[Adran]

8 minutes ago, Mindbadger said:

I don't know how good he'll be, but he's super thematic! I love the fact that Huggy has taken over.

So, if I'm reading the upgrade correctly, now that Huggy is the master he gets 3AP. Where does this leave the new Jakob? Does he get demoted to 2 AP or does he keep the 3? The word "instead" on the upgrade is making it unclear for me.  Regardless, it will save you a few points in hiring now that giving Hungering Darkness the Silent Protector upgrade isn't as mandatory.

 

Huggy becomes the leader instead (And also becomes a master). Jacob is still a master and can take 3 actions. 

[Mindbadger]

Well, can't say I'm disappointed by that, glad new Jakob doesn't get downgraded! Huggy always felt like one of the more impactful models in Honeypot so getting an extra AP on him will be pretty big.

[FrostHunter]

Well...

I'm truly sad that Jacob flipped Black Joker... I hoped for another funny episode with his wonderful unlucky luck.

Hmmm... So NuLynch is mix of his crew. I don't like him, but i would love to have his luck thief and delirium from front card and looming eclipse and feed the darkness.

Maybe because of comparision to orginal card i have feelings that this one is quite bland?

I would classify him as totem on steroids, which looking at this situation is perfect (even if i don't like it :P)

Okey, enough of longbeard grumbling.

Dragged into the dark is great - unresisted placing model - IT will mess in schemes.

Having two 3ap models - nice, very nice.

Love to have another model with Delirium. Nice combo with his zero action.

Luck thief is one of my favourite defense mechanism, even if i don't think it will help him much.

Looming eclipse - i like this source of healing, but i feel that i would have to bring another source of healing for NuLynch 

Soul Battery - well, everything on his card is good or very good. Then why i'm not sold to this model?

 

[Mindbadger]

I think maybe because he doesn't introduce a vastly different gameplay style to Honeypot, he might not seem as exciting? Other master titles are hugely different and encourage different playstyles or hiring different models. Looking at this new Lynch, I'll probably hire the same models and play pretty similarly. He does some different things, but I imagine the games will play out fairly the same. Will have to test!

The Soul Battery has a lot of neat little things, but I'm not sure if all those little things will really impact on the game. Same as new Lynch, he's not going to change things much for the crew, but he is cheap.

Still looking forward to trying him out though.

[FrostHunter]

Okey. I have crazy idea for later plot twist. Lynch would be the first person that would be rescued and healed from brilliance. That's a good thing. The bad thing is that he was rescued by something more sinister and used against Huggy (don't know how Huggy will end in this book) who will get crippled by this. Another twist, healed Lynch would save crippled Huggy.

With such a plot i will love this model.

[OracleToronto]

So I loved games playtesting this  Lynch. At first glance at his card he is massively underwhelming however he adds a lot to the crew. Obviously an extra AP for Huggy is huge but he adds other things as well. I find his aura is strong enough that I can choose to leave Tannen at home if I want. He also plays like a weird "beacon" that you push up the board using Kitty's tendrils then he target's 2 or 3 models with Brilliance 3 or more and places them into base contact with him grating a huge boost of movement. They don't have to be keyword models to get this place as long as they have 3 or more Brilliance on them - and OOK models can even choose to fail the WP duel to gain a Brilliance! He then has a pretty decent healing burst - especially if you have a Terracotta warrior near him to copy the heal (make sure the Terracotta Warrior has brilliance on it to spend though!)  The teleport places along with the 2" pushes on your models when they gain brilliance make the crew surprisingly fast! 

I find his attack to be a bit of a trap unless you know you can delete a model with it - as you don't want him engaged by enemy models - and as he doesn't have a ranged attack he plays a little weird at first (especially with a mv 4) but once I started playing him as a "support beacon" totem for the now master Huggy the crew really started to do work.

 

Also Silent protector is stapled onto Lynch and Huggy in my opinion - watch your opponent throw tons of AP into dropping Huggy to only have him reappear beside Lynch ready for more - then take the same mechanic and add hard to kill on both models!

  

[Mindbadger]

Glad you had fun with him, but I'll be honest, it is a little disheartening to hear that our "brand new master title!!!" is reduced to just adding some some movement to the bubble and a better aura. The fact that he doesn't have a ranged attack means that if you aren't planning to melee with him, all you can do is pull people about a bit. His pull will be great at maneuvering the bubble up early and yanking people into the bubble once you're in the middle, but if that's all he's really good for, it feels a bit meh for the big Honeypot reveal.

Sure, Huggy is the real new master, but it's not like we don't already know fully well what he does. Seems like a slightly wasted opportunity. I loved how thematic the new dynamic is, just feel a bit let down with how it translates to (theoretical) gameplay. I would love to be wrong about this though, seems like you enjoyed him.

[Eclipse]

Oh boy, I really needed some time to calm down before writing this because my initial impression and response would have been pretty heated, and not in a positive way. I'll now try to reiterate the whole process of what went through my head today, phase after phase. If you do read all of my ranting, I hope at least you get a good laugh from it
Let's start with the stats, and right off the bat, things were rough. 5/4, None For Me traded for the most massive Succumbed we have seen so far... Dude, like, what happened? Huggy got your Brilliance Pipe? Well, looking at the attack action on the back, I thought this might be the case, because he is just a massive Brillshaper/Illuminated now; the attack is the same word for word, isn't it? No, wait, is he actually a massive Depleted? With a low Wp of 4 and, look at that, retaining Walk 4? Oh, and the new shared model is an Enfrocer, Amalgam (?? Whatever) Depleted?? Hold on. TIME OUT.

So I took some time to mull over my initial impression, and then got back to thinking. Soooo, Lynch is clearly even more of a gimp Master now. Hungering Darkness has always been the real Leader, both in the story and oftentimes during games, and this version seems to state that clearly. GimpLynch has poor stats and an Illuminated's melee attack only now, so it can only be a support model. Well, that doesn't sound too different from Lynch1; then probably he has some abilities for, well, support, right? Let's read the rest of the card.
Once again, Consumed by Darkness makes Huggy the Leader, which is how it should be. So Gimpch has 2 AP then; that's OK, I haven't gotten much use out of Lynch1 before past a Friendly Handshake or two to spread Brilliance and get a bit of extra movement from Mr. Tannen (I later realized that since he retains the station keyword, he still has 3 AP - 2 or 3 AP didn't seem like a big deal anyway). Succumbed+5 - I hope he gets to use this for something useful, because I'm not going to plan sticking him in melee with these stats, that's for sure. Any interactions with... Oh, it HEALS Huggy by the amount. Yay. And hurts Gimpch for the same. Ugh. Rig the Deck +2, standard. Luck Thief? Hell, I don't need to bring Gwynneth now, we have another Luck Thief to tank for us! Not really, but let's carry on. Delirium, sounds familiar. Blah-blah... Tannen? So I don't need Tannen? Because I sure ain't taking him for the cheating aura without any synergy, and this aura does not stack. Bummer. What else, Tacticals? Free action, put up an aura for Brilliance. This is nice, spread some Brilliance around - not calculated like Lynch1, but still ok. AoE heal once per turn, this is balanced and useful, spread some more Brilliance. Dragged into the Dark, PLACE a model... Wait, so now I don't need Mr. Graves anymore either, as he kind of sucks and I mostly take him for the push on Turn 1? Ah, wait, I'm not summoning the minions with this version either, so I kinda only need a Beckoner or two now from the lot of them? Could I... errr.. summon the new model again? It's an Enforcer Depleted? Hold on. TIME OUT.

Coming back yet again to Gimpch, it was time to make a final evaluation and try to imagine what he would do and how he can be enhanced or used to enhance other models. I imagined something like what @OracleToronto mentions: a 'support beacon' and, potentially, a scheme/placement disruption piece if he survives to later turns. However, I would not use him in a Honeypot-heavy crew to enhance the bubble; to me he provides extended reach for models as well as a very important 3rd AP for Huggy (which translates to potentially even more reach). Coupled with the ability to spread Brilliance amongst nearby friendly models this means that taking some Ten Thunders OoK models could be a good move to provide flexible list building as well as specialized models that can cover the thematic crew's gaps. And quite frankly, that's a good thing; while the new edition does a great job in stitching a lot of crews together mechanically, some thematic crews have easily exploitable playstyles (case in point: bunch up in a bubble to use auras) and therefore end up weaker than others.

Something that worries me a little is that (free) marker (including Destructible markers) placement and removal/switching seems to have become quite prevalent in M3E during recent releases. To specify: Actions like 'remove a(n enemy) marker and make a friendly marker instead because skill'; or abilities such as 'this model exists, so it can just remove or place markers for free from very far away'. The Honeypot crew still lacks any reliable way to address this, and it might be true for the faction as a whole even after this book (I have to check all of the new models/titles to see if that's correct).

Another thing that I've noticed is that (at least IMO) the new titles go two ways: either a complete change in playstyle for the model (while still keeping some core crew mechanics) or a fine-tuning of the model to perform the same role, but in a different way. In fact, I'd argue that quite a few Masters have become a better representation of themselves than the first iteration, both thematically and mechanically. What's more, I believe that you could take one version of most Masters, streamline and tune it a bit and consider it ready for M4E (not that we need it just yet). In a sense that's a good thing: an indicator that a better sense of the correct design and flavor has been groomed since the transition to M3E that has led to superior options and potential for skilled plays.

Speaking about Lynch specifically:
- Lynch1 in M3E feels to me is a toned down version of M2E's Woke Up with a Hand build combined with his third limited upgrade. He doesn't really feel like a Master during his activations, but more like a souped-up (dare I say fat 6ss?) support piece, with minor conditional short-range nuking. The added potential for summoning a thematic Minion is cute, but so far has not worked for me in the two or three games I've played with the crew since coming back to Malifaux recently. It is a nice upside to capitalize on spending a lot of resources up to this point, but not something to plan around. Overall the crew feels less hard-hitting and more controlling in this edition, which I also enjoy as a playstyle (although it has obvious weaknesses, as mentioned before). Lynch1 also is one of the first Masters in M3E I got to know that features minor accidental summoning of thematic models; you will find a loooot more of those in the Titles releasing now with the new book. And that is not a bad thing; have a lot of beautiful models from a given crew/theme and don't know what to do with them? Well, there you go, at least summon some of them, so you can hire more worthwhile models in the main crew. I like how changes to summoning and the addition of Pass tokens have enabled this, both making obsolete models conditionally playable and giving more options during crew building and play.
- Gimpch on the other hand is focused heavily on support and, if need be, can be used as an off-tank/tarpit for a while. The Endless Hunger upgrade is really sweet, a mix of both of Lynch's M2E original limited upgrades, granting Huggy the extra resurrects as well as the third AP. To be fair, I might prefer this version despite the degrading stats and lacking offense as it provides more flexibility overall (in theory, this is all theoryfauxing 🤠). Kitty would be a core crew model in this version IMO for the initial Brilliance stacking, especially if using OoK models.

Last but not least, first ACreedLucuis and now Gimpch get creepy-clawy hands. Where have all the proper Victorian gentlemen gone? Apparently only English Ivan is left to elegantly tip his dandy hat to friend and foe alike 😪

[clockworkspide]

3 hours ago, Eclipse said:

Last but not least, first ACreedLucuis and now Gimpch get creepy-clawy hands. Where have all the proper Victorian gentlemen gone? Apparently only English Ivan is left to elegantly tip his dandy hat to friend and foe alike 😪

Wait, is Ivan tipping his hat before or after he feeds you to your own shadow?

[Eclipse]

5 hours ago, clockworkspide said:

Wait, is Ivan tipping his hat before or after he feeds you to your own shadow?

All evidence to support either option has been succinctly disposed of.

[Mindbadger]

9 hours ago, Eclipse said:

Coming back yet again to Gimpch, it was time to make a final evaluation and try to imagine what he would do and how he can be enhanced or used to enhance other models. I imagined something like what @OracleToronto mentions: a 'support beacon' and, potentially, a scheme/placement disruption piece if he survives to later turns. However, I would not use him in a Honeypot-heavy crew to enhance the bubble; to me he provides extended reach for models as well as a very important 3rd AP for Huggy (which translates to potentially even more reach). Coupled with the ability to spread Brilliance amongst nearby friendly models this means that taking some Ten Thunders OoK models could be a good move to provide flexible list building as well as specialized models that can cover the thematic crew's gaps. And quite frankly, that's a good thing; while the new edition does a great job in stitching a lot of crews together mechanically, some thematic crews have easily exploitable playstyles (case in point: bunch up in a bubble to use auras) and therefore end up weaker than others.


- Gimpch on the other hand is focused heavily on support and, if need be, can be used as an off-tank/tarpit for a while. The Endless Hunger upgrade is really sweet, a mix of both of Lynch's M2E original limited upgrades, granting Huggy the extra resurrects as well as the third AP. To be fair, I might prefer this version despite the degrading stats and lacking offense as it provides more flexibility overall (in theory, this is all theoryfauxing 🤠). Kitty would be a core crew model in this version IMO for the initial Brilliance stacking, especially if using OoK models.

Great writeup! I think the problem with using OoK models with this Lynch, is that his abilities somewhat hinge on targeting keyword models. His heal can only target Honeypot models and his pull needs at least 3 brilliance on a model, easy enough for most Honeypot models but it will take a bit of effort to get them on OoK models. It's still doable, but I'm not sure you are incentivized to go OoK more with this Lynch. If anything, it makes me want to focus a bit more on Illuminated and go for a bit more ranged damage core which can smack hard once people get close. Plus, the illuminated can dish out brilliance from afar. Just need a few models to run schemes which... Honeypot is lacking a bit. I tend to make do with Kitty and the Dawn Serpent.

[Maogrim]

Now, talking about lore (because I basically have no idea about playing the game): Do you guys think that this is Jakob's fate now? Has he completely succumbed and will stay like this, or did he temporarily give the Darkness full controll to save themselves from a dire situation? He was supposed to be immune to the brilliance, which is why he became the Darkness' host in the first place, so I could see him regain control and the mutations reverting again in time. 

[FrostHunter]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

Now, talking about lore (because I basically have no idea about playing the game): Do you guys think that this is Jakob's fate now? Has he completely succumbed and will stay like this, or did he temporarily give the Darkness full controll to save themselves from a dire situation? He was supposed to be immune to the brilliance, which is why he became the Darkness' host in the first place, so I could see him regain control and the mutations reverting again in time. 

I also hope this is not pernament state of Jacob (see my "fanfic/wishful thinking" few posts above...)

[Eclipse]

After this change reverting back to how things were would be invalidate the whole story process. I really was hoping that Lynch would take control of the dark power, forsake his totem and become more powerful on his own - a true Master, not a patsy. Instead we got the reverse, and that is somewhat difficult to digest. Things seem to always go in favor of the Tyrants (and the Hungering Darkness wanted to become one). IMO there is only one direction now, struggle for ultimate control and devour the other; either Lynch reverses his fortune, or HD takes over completely. Ah, of course, story-wise it might take quite a while for us to get there...

[Maogrim]

1 hour ago, Eclipse said:

After this change reverting back to how things were would be invalidate the whole story process. I really was hoping that Lynch would take control of the dark power, forsake his totem and become more powerful on his own - a true Master, not a patsy. Instead we got the reverse, and that is somewhat difficult to digest. Things seem to always go in favor of the Tyrants (and the Hungering Darkness wanted to become one). IMO there is only one direction now, struggle for ultimate control and devour the other; either Lynch reverses his fortune, or HD takes over completely. Ah, of course, story-wise it might take quite a while for us to get there...

I have to diagree here. Granting Jakob the option to hand control over to the Darkness and then regaining it would just be similar to things occasionally happening in other properties. Think of the dynamic between Venom and Eddie Brock.

And the Tyrants basically never win. Plague/Hamelin for example is the stereotypical mustache-twirling villain whose plans are constantly thwarted. Similar things can be said about December or Cherufe. The Dragon seemingly has even (at least temporarily) lost control over Shenlong.

[Eclipse]

3 hours ago, Maogrim said:

I have to diagree here. Granting Jakob the option to hand control over to the Darkness and then regaining it would just be similar to things occasionally happening in other properties. Think of the dynamic between Venom and Eddie Brock.

And the Tyrants basically never win. Plague/Hamelin for example is the stereotypical mustache-twirling villain whose plans are constantly thwarted. Similar things can be said about December or Cherufe. The Dragon seemingly has even (at least temporarily) lost control over Shenlong.

  That's an interesting take. So in your opinion this experience could end up changing the dynamic between the two, like it happened with Eddie and Venom? I'd love to see a similar development, (surprisingly) I'm a huge fan. I do see evidence to support the idea that Masters can regain control. [SPOILERS] You mentioned Shenlong, who decided to go back to his roots after the Dragon retreated from his consciousness to recoup power. Misaki overcame her father, Molly got used to living as the zombie girl, Asami took hold of her newfound powers and began to steer her own wheel, Ophelia dragged her family through hard times, McCabe and McMourning found new roles after losing their previous occupation, Mei Feng, Von Schill and Cooper emerged more focused on their goals after getting injured, etc. Human being are surprisingly strong in the face of adversity and manage to adapt to very harsh conditions and developments in their life, it's sometimes I love seeing portrayed.

  As far as the Tyrants are concerned however, I'm not entirely convinced. They are practically immortal, even if not at the height of their power, while the mortal residents of the world have finite lives, sanity, emotions, resources... Getting struck down by Fate and getting back up again can grind down even a great person, changing them often forever, bringing them in another direction than what they desired. And don't get me wrong, the Tyrants so far have been defeated in their bids for power, but from my perspective that's just proof in favor of 'lose the battle, win the war'. The sun is setting on this dying, dystopian world. Who knows, maybe things will end up the Disney way, 'happily ever after', all the hardcore bad guys have been taken care of, all or most of the other cast find their awkward place in the world and some semblance of happiness. But as the saying goes, Bad Things Happen in Malifaux, and worst for many may have yet to come. Regardless, until the final curtain drops, the show must go on. Tyrants have to lose for the story to go on, important characters have to pick themselves up however they can and give their example to those that follow by moving forward. And, regardless of how and if it ends, I will enjoy being part of the ride nonetheless 

[Maogrim]

I was gong to say that the bad things happening in Malifaux usually happen to citizens and side characters - those named characters repesented in actual crews usually make it relatively unscathed. Sonnia for example was possessed by Cherufe but recovered and managed to return to her former self. Rasputina, Tara, Shenlong and the Dreamer remain being tied to Tyrants but haven't lost themselves so far (not sure about Rasputina's current status though).

We have lost named and important characters though, either indefinitely (Lilith and Ramos) or permanently (Colodi and Nicodem) but Tyrants were not involved.

I just really doubt that a permantky mutated and damaged Jakob Lynch would still be useful to the Darkness. It was his charm and indeed human resourcefulness that allowed the Darkness to spread its influence in tge first place. And I doubt it's strong enough to try an open power grab.

[frumpypigskin]

Some thoughts after 1 game.

Silent protector Huggy and lunch with 3-4 models with brilliance on them around him make Huggy really hard to kill without specific Teck or positioning.

Huggy using double walk charge with a High Ram, a stone, spending focus to delete a squishy model without worrying about dying is an intimidating threat. 

Lynch's feed the darkness is easy to forget... But getting to push an extra 2" at the end of your activation is pretty sweet and really adds up.

Lots of fun. I feel like having a 2nd luck Thief model is extra hard too deal with. Even if they are only df6

Silent protector on an illuminated or possibly a Beckoner sitting next to Lynch feels really good when you can heal it 3 each turn. Illuminated gets bonus points with brill shaper... You're never running out of brilliance on this guy. Mine died eventually with 8 or 9 on him.