Mega attack - lots of hits!

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think I have found an almost indefinite combo...

• Malisaurus Rex puts up his +crows aura for apex.
• Paul crocket shoots a model.
• Gives a free attack to Ullr.
• Built in crows (from Rex) for Ullr gives the hold down trigger - gives Paul a free shot.
• Paul gives Ullr a free attack.
• Ullr gives Paul a free attack.
• Etc.

The only problem is you will run out of cards to discard to fuel the attacks. Any way to make this combo draw cards, so you could theoretically do six billion damage?

[Maniacal_cackle]

And wowza, Ullr has By Your Side, so you can teleport Ullr in and start the combo.

[MajorUndead]

If I'm not mistaken, actions generated by triggers cannot declare triggers.
So Ullr wouldn't be able to use his "hold down" trigger here.

[MajorUndead]

Yeah found it.
Page 12 of the errata'd rulebook, in the box "actions generated by triggers"
"Actions generated by Triggers (and any subsequent Actions generated) cannot declare Triggers, and like other generated Actions, they do not count against a model’s Action limit."

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, MajorUndead said:

If I'm not mistaken, actions generated by triggers cannot declare triggers.
So Ullr wouldn't be able to use his "hold down" trigger here.

Paul doesn't use a trigger to generate the attack, he uses the front of card ability (when he damages something, discard so a friendly beast can attack as well).

So ignore the coordinated attack trigger on Paul, that doesn't work here.

Although Ullr > Paul > Ullr > Paul > Rex would be a fun chain.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Ahhhhhh, subsequent actions generated. You're right the errata does stop you from doing the trigger again.

So the best you can do is Ullr > Paul > Rex or Paul > Ullr > Paul > Rex.

The first time Ullr enters the chain all further triggers stop.

[MajorUndead]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Paul doesn't use a trigger to generate the attack, he uses the front of card ability (when he damages something, discard so a friendly beast can attack as well).

So ignore the coordinated attack trigger on Paul, that doesn't work here.

Although Ullr > Paul > Ullr > Paul > Rex would be a fun chain.

Ok but you still can't have Ullr's trigger more than once in your chain, since Ullr's second attack is a "subsequent Actions generated"

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, MajorUndead said:

Ok but you still can't have Ullr's trigger more than once in your chain, since Ullr's second attack is a "subsequent Actions generated"

Yeah, see my second post, you're right.

We were both typing at the same time xD

[Maniacal_cackle]

So now thinking through the longest chain...

Paul with coordinated attack on Rex, scent of blood on Ullr > Ullr and Rex attack, Ullr with attack trigger > Paul attacks and scent of bloods Rex > Rex attacks.

Since coordinated attack and Ullr have separate trigger chains, I think this works?

So a single action from Paul can create two Paul attacks, one Ullr attack, and two Rex attacks? Probably worth skipping Ullr unless you want staggered on the target I suppose, since Paul + 2 Rex is probably good enough most times.

Still, an interesting cap! If they all hit that is min 11 damage!

[Adran]

10 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Ahhhhhh, subsequent actions generated. You're right the errata does stop you from doing the trigger again.

So the best you can do is Ullr > Paul > Rex or Paul > Ullr > Paul > Rex.

The first time Ullr enters the chain all further triggers stop.

That is a reading of that errata that I had never seen before. I had always read it that the action generated by Scent of blood was not in the chain to be affected, becauise they are generated outside. Likewise if you flurried off a Onslaught attack you could still declare triggers because the source of the extra attack was the flurry, rather than the Onslaught trigger and its attack. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Adran said:

That is a reading of that errata that I had never seen before. I had always read it that the action generated by Scent of blood was not in the chain to be affected, becauise they are generated outside. Likewise if you flurried off a Onslaught attack you could still declare triggers because the source of the extra attack was the flurry, rather than the Onslaught trigger and its attack. 

I think it tracks, but I'm not quite sure...

After all, if you obey someone to charge using the Ensorcel trigger, the subsequent attack can't have triggers, right?

[Adran]

Just now, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think it tracks, but I'm not quite sure...

After all, if you obey someone to charge using the Ensorcel trigger, the subsequent attack can't have triggers, right?

That is true, and what I believe the errata was written to stop, but that is an action directly created by an action generated by the trigger.

The use of an ability to generate the action is not the same  as the use of the action to generate another action

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Adran said:

That is true, and what I believe the errata was written to stop, but that is an action directly created by an action generated by the trigger.

The use of an ability to generate the action is not the same  as the use of the action to generate another action

Oh, interesting. So under that interpretation, the original post works?

[Adran]

Just now, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oh, interesting. So under that interpretation, the original post works?

I always thought the original post works. I've certainly mentioned it in a few places (probably discussion's on Basse and Crocket being rubbish) and not seen it questioned before. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

On the other hand, it is clearly against the design intention of M3E. You're not supposed to be able to chain activations, attacks, etc. indefinitely.

So it does feel a bit loophole-y.

[Adran]

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

On the other hand, it is clearly against the design intention of M3E. You're not supposed to be able to chain activations, attacks, etc. indefinitely.

So it does feel a bit loophole-y.

True,  but even with that reading you are looking at upto 5 attacks against the same target for that 1 AP, which is likely to kill most things. And no way to shift the target. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Adran said:

True,  but even with that reading you are looking at upto 5 attacks against the same target for that 1 AP, which is likely to kill most things. And no way to shift the target. 

True xD

I just want to know if we can achieve a way to do a theoretical 6 billion damage... We just need the card draw (and the rules to work), but I couldn't find anything.

[Paddywhack]

I think it works. It's a problem giving out free suits in aura. There will likely be other issues down the road. Now, you still have to hit those attacks (and dmg in Crockett's case) to keep the chain going. 

I agree that it feels like a loop hole. Easiest fix would be to make Scent of Blook Once per Activation. If they really think it's a problem that is.