Butterfly Jump and Bring It!

[Kharnage]

Ironsides successfully uses Bring it! on Hayreddin, who has Inhuman Reflexes. Does the bring it action end, then Hayreddin BFJs, then he fails the generated attack for being out of range? Or does the generated attack occur because its "part of Bring It!"? 

I feel like I know the answer but I'm asking for posterity of a tournament I'm at.

[solkan]

28 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Initially I was going to say Hayreddin may BJW away... but after looking at it more carefuly it looks like the attack is part of the action; specially taking in count the trigger ("Spit out a tooth") seems to be intended to resolve after the attack (no point in spitting tooths before being hit); which implies the enemy attack is part of the resolution of the initial action, not intended to queue after it.

Which is weird because It goes against the rules of the pg34:

But maybe that rules are for action that the model performing the action is going to resolve (kind of Onslaught/Swift action), not for actions that it force other models to take as part of the resolution of an action (Bring it or Obey).

IDK, there is something off here.

No, that's not evidence that Bring It! as any different timing.  Because if you compare it to Obey, Command, Unclean Influence, and all of the other actions that make another model take an action, there's no wording to overrule the rules that you quoted.

At best, what it means is that the developers copied over the action and its trigger, and shrugged if people complained about the effect of the timing.

Death Marshals have a similar non-optimal trigger:  They have a trigger on Pine Box which they can't use until they're burying the second model.

So, yeah, that's the tooth from the last fight.  

[Mycellanious]

I think in M3E actions are never "a part of" another action. In M2E actions were nested, but in M3E each action fully resolves before each triggered action

[Ogid]

Initially I was going to say Hayreddin may BJW away... but after looking at it more carefuly it looks like the attack is part of the action; specially taking in count the trigger ("Spit out a tooth") seems to be intended to resolve after the attack (no point in spitting tooths before being hit); which implies the enemy attack is part of the resolution of the initial action, not intended to queue after it.

Which is weird because It goes against the rules of the pg34:

Quote

Many effects in Malifaux, (such as Actions, Abilities, and Triggers) can cause a model to take an Action. When this happens, the new Action is always resolved after the previous Action is completely resolved, including any “After Resolving” effects, but before any other new Action can be taken. Actions generated in this way follow the normal sequence for Actions and do not count against a model’s Action limit

But maybe that rules are for action that the model performing the action is going to resolve (kind of Onslaught/Swift action), not for actions that it force other models to take as part of the resolution of an action (Bring it or Obey).

IDK, there is something off here.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think there is some weirdness happening (that trigger is a good point), but under the current rules you have to take generated actions at the end of everything else.

Note however that Hayreddin controls the Butterfly jump, so he could actually move closer using butterfly jump and land the attack.

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, solkan said:

No, that's not evidence that Bring It! as any different timing.  Because if you compare it to Obey, Command, Unclean Influence, and all of the other actions that make another model take an action, there's no wording to overrule the rules that you quoted.

At best, what it means is that the developers copied over the action and its trigger, and shrugged if people complained about the effect of the timing.

I guess it's more probable the thing off there is the theme of the trigger and not a missing rule. Makes sense.

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Note however that Hayreddin controls the Butterfly jump, so he could actually move closer using butterfly jump and land the attack.

If Hayreddin knows what's best for him, he will BFJ as far as possible XD.

[Mycellanious]

3 hours ago, Ogid said:

Initially I was going to say Hayreddin may BJW away... but after looking at it more carefuly it looks like the attack is part of the action; specially taking in count the trigger ("Spit out a tooth") seems to be intended to resolve after the attack (no point in spitting tooths before being hit); which implies the enemy attack is part of the resolution of the initial action, not intended to queue after it.

This argument wouldnt make much sense anyway because its possible to Bring It on a model that is too far away to take an attack, but the trigger can be declared anyway for extra healing. 

Its also a bit strange to try and read Trigger names literally. Can a Survivor only declare the "Throw yer Arm at Em" Trigger twice per game?

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Mycellanious said:

This argument wouldnt make much sense anyway because its possible to Bring It on a model that is too far away to take an attack, but the trigger can be declared anyway for extra healing. 

Its also a bit strange to try and read Trigger names literally. Can a Survivor only declare the "Throw yer Arm at Em" Trigger twice per game?

As said above something was off; I wasn't sure at that point of what, notice all the "maybes" and "seems to". But what matter are the rules. I've been checking and there is no other rule for extra action timings and one trigger clearly indicates they resolve before the extra action (Threaten Beatins in the Gremlin Crier).

Triggers' names tend to go with the theme and timing. The survivor theme explains where that scrap come from (and maybe that gobling carry a few remplacements of that arm!), this one is off timing-wise which is what missleaded me. Or maybe it isn't off timing and Toni go around with a bag full of tooths to spit them in other people's faces right before they hit her /s

[Kharnage]

So to be clear. The consensus is "bring it move, then BFJ, then Bring It attack, if applicable"?

[Ogid]

8 hours ago, Kharnage said:

So to be clear. The consensus is "bring it move, then BFJ, then Bring It attack, if applicable"?

Yes, the only thing missing is the after resolving/succeeding triggers of the original attack (Bring it, Obey...) resolving in the same step than BFJ.