Tournament Masters?

[Yore Huckleberry]

So, are there some masters who are hampered by the tournament format of 2-hour rounds? It seems like slow-build crews like Yan Lo and Hammelin are a bit impacted by this, since they're vulnerable to alpha striking through earlier rounds and stronger in later ones. With tournament games regularly going 3 full rounds and maybe partway into a fourth, are these guys just structurally at a disadvantage, or are people finding ways to play around that with them?

[Maniacal_cackle]

For an upcoming tournament I had to decide between my two masters: Dreamer and Molly.

One of the biggest reasons I decided to go with Molly is that Dreamer games take forever. So it is definitely a factor at my level.

I think when both players are really experienced/fast, you can play anything in 2.5 hours. But in a tournament where people are seeing new enemies and spending loads of time reading, slower masters are definitely punished.

Over time the problem may lessen, however. People will get to know the common crews.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I also think it may push people towards elite builds. Games are way faster if you start with 6-7 models rather than 10-12.

So for instance the Resser list with Archie/Dead Rider/Manos has packed 30 stones into 3 models, significantly lessening number of activations to deal with.

[Adran]

11 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

So, are there some masters who are hampered by the tournament format of 2-hour rounds? It seems like slow-build crews like Yan Lo and Hammelin are a bit impacted by this, since they're vulnerable to alpha striking through earlier rounds and stronger in later ones. With tournament games regularly going 3 full rounds and maybe partway into a fourth, are these guys just structurally at a disadvantage, or are people finding ways to play around that with them?

I think this is something that depends on players. There are only a few times I haven't played a full 5 turns in a 2 hour tournament round, so its rare that I will even have to consider that. Even then I expect 4 turns, and I generally know in turn 2 if I think turn 5 is a likelihood, so do I need to step up a gear in scoring.  It was certainly one of the discussions on Yan lo that happened during the open beta, but as far as I remember, the view is the game is written to have 5 turns, and its the power level over the 5 turns that matters. (if you made Yan lo ramp balanced based on only playing 3 turns then I'm fairly sure you'd see lots of complaints about how powerful he is after 5, and lots of people using him in events and getting to 5 turns).

If you know you aren't going to play 5 turns because you are a slower player, then you might want to take that into consideration. I think you will find that players are disadvantaged on tiebreaks if the game doesn't get to 5 turns due to the higher scoring getting harder (I think its much harder to win 6:0 in 3 rounds that 8:1 in 5), so its not just a master thing, but it is probably most obvious with some masters.

 

[Kharnage]

I've never had this problem, turn 5 always shows up, but Nephilim play very quickly regardless of my foe. I'm usually done with the game within an hour, or an hour and fifteen minutes tops. I usually spend quality time walking around the other tables, watching games finish out and seeing how others approached the same strategy and schemes. Not as fun maybe, but certainly more informative. 
If you're intimately familiar with how your first turn goes and can do whole activations in 30 seconds or so because they do the same uninteractive thing (I think I've said "pig pukes a corpse, focuses, done" like 2 dozen times now), life opens up considerably. Even when I moonlight as Hoffman, I've planned my turn 1 weeks in advance (power tokens out, needs a 6, needs a 3 to power transfers to him, needs a 6, needs a 6, done) going so far as to anticipate what I would do in the event of a black joker. 
I would suppose it's a bit like training for a combat scenario IRL; you drill and drill and when it comes time to do something, you make reflexive decisions rather than stand there and think about it, which can save critical (albeit less critical in malifaux) time during your actual fights. You could argue you become mildly less adaptable, but just as often I think real hard into a wrong decision anyway. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I played my first tournament last weekend and didn't finish a game (2.5 hour rounds).

Against crews I have played before, 2.5 hours has been tight but doable. Almost everyone was fielding crews I had never even read about until preparing for the tournament, so I ended up pretty slow.

For the foreseeable future until I have a good grasp of other crews and what they can do, I'll definitely have 'time to play' as one of the big considerations for what crews I take to tournaments. I'll probably start fielding elite crews with fewer activations.

It isn't so bad that I'll move away from my primary playstyle (attrition control), but definitely something that will be a factor!

[Maniacal_cackle]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:44 AM, Kharnage said:

If you're intimately familiar with how your first turn goes and can do whole activations in 30 seconds or so because they do the same uninteractive thing (I think I've said "pig pukes a corpse, focuses, done" like 2 dozen times now), life opens up considerably. Even when I moonlight as Hoffman, I've planned my turn 1 weeks in advance (power tokens out, needs a 6, needs a 3 to power transfers to him, needs a 6, needs a 6, done) going so far as to anticipate what I would do in the event of a black joker.  

I think turn one is a major factor. Against familiar opponents my turn one can zip by. But my play style is hugely affected by my opponents crew composition and positioning (not to mention my own crew comp), so that is tricky against new opponents.

Nonetheless, maybe I'll try some drills before the next tournament!

[Yore Huckleberry]

20 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think turn one is a major factor. Against familiar opponents my turn one can zip by. But my play style is hugely affected by my opponents crew composition and positioning (not to mention my own crew comp), so that is tricky against new opponents.

Nonetheless, maybe I'll try some drills before the next tournament!

It's super interesting. In chess I'm used to playing specific openings that adapt a bit or transpose into other familiar lines, so the first 10 turns of a chess game are usually pretty familiar to me unless the opponent blunders or plays something zany.

In Malifaux I'm still pretty new, but it seems like turn one you can generally plan out your plays, and respond mostly to your opponent's threat ranges and to lanes and sight lines. Maybe prep a scheme-chasing flanker or two.

Right now I'm typically resserving 8-10 stones' space for tech and counter-picks, though I'm still a bit new to figuring out exactly what those need to be.