The Finer Points of Reachmancy and Engagement

[Kharnage]

So, as a Nephilim, I have a lot of reach 2 to go around. Most people don't. Imagine with me if you will, the following scenario.

Nekima is represented by N, Mature Nephilim is represented by an M, a Death Marshal is represented by a D, and each little dash mark is an exact inch of distance.

N--D--M

That is to say, Nekima is on the opposite site of the Death Marshal from the Mature, and they're each exactly two inches away from the Death Marshal. He can't use his pistol because he's engaged, and he can't use his sword because he isn't close enough.
Does this mean that in order to attack anyone or do anything that isn't standing in place and focusing, the Death Marshal would be *forced* to take a Disengaging Strike, which would be at a + flip to the distance removed? Could this be used to make a model stand in place as long as I keep flipping high enough to prevent the model from moving, effectively keeping them in Reach Prison™?

[Clement]

"yes"...

But keep in mind that in the case of a death marshal, "reach prison" is only sustained so long as you keep getting severe damage on the disengage "damage" flip since the marshal is  mv 5.

it would be easier to do on a slower target.

[Kharnage]

1 minute ago, Clement said:

it would be easier to do on a slower target.

For sure. I had Sonnia in mind, originally.

[Ogid]

A follow up sanity check here:

There are a difference between being engaged and engaging. In the above example neither Nephillim is engaged (they are engaging), hence they could interact, charge or use  actions. Right?

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

A follow up sanity check here:

There are a difference between being engaged and engaging. In the above example neither Nephillim is engaged (they are engaging), hence they could interact, charge or use  actions. Right?

Yes, M3E makes being Engaged a possibly one sided situation. 

Quote

If the friendly model has a longer engagement range than the enemy model, this could lead to situations where the friendly model is engaging the enemy model, but the enemy model is not engaging the friendly model (because the friendly model is not within its engage- ment range).

If someone is engaging you, you are engaged but they aren’t necessarily engaged.

 

[Mycellanious]

16 hours ago, Ogid said:

A follow up sanity check here:

There are a difference between being engaged and engaging. In the above example neither Nephillim is engaged (they are engaging), hence they could interact, charge or use  actions. Right?

Note that if you use a projectile action targeting a model you are engaging (w/o gunfighter) you will incur friendly fire

[Kharnage]

1 hour ago, Mycellanious said:

Note that if you use a projectile action targeting a model you are engaging (w/o gunfighter) you will incur friendly fire

EDIT: Nevermind, misread your statement. Yes, technically an engaged model, even engaged by you, still forces friendly fire penalties. 

[solkan]

3 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

Note that if you use a projectile action targeting a model you are engaging (w/o gunfighter) you will incur friendly fire

See paragraph two of friendly fire for an additional qualifier:

Quote

While not common, some models are able to take Actions while engaged. If a model does so, it is not considered engaging (or engaged by) the target for the purposes of Friendly Fire.

So the only time you take the Friendly Fire penalty for shooting someone you're engaging is if someone else is involved, too.

 

[Mycellanious]

5 minutes ago, solkan said:

See paragraph two of friendly fire for an additional qualifier:

So the only time you take the Friendly Fire penalty for shooting someone you're engaging is if someone else is, too.

 

This rule is not applicable because in the given scenario the shooter is considered engaging, but not engaged. As a specific example, if a Ruffian (1" engagement") were 1" away from a Silent One (no engagement) and he decided to use his Derringer instead of his Gang Weapons (its a kill shot) he would incurr Friendly Fire (which is ok because hes got swagger) because the target of the action is considered engaged. The exeption rule does not apply because the Ruffian is not considered engaged

[Ogid]

42 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

This rule is not applicable because in the given scenario the shooter is considered engaging, but not engaged. As a specific example, if a Ruffian (1" engagement") were 1" away from a Silent One (no engagement) and he decided to use his Derringer instead of his Gang Weapons (its a kill shot) he would incurr Friendly Fire (which is ok because hes got swagger) because the target of the action is considered engaged. The exeption rule does not apply because the Ruffian is not considered engaged

mmm... from a strict RAW pow that's true... it only says engaged, not engaging.

It's not coherent, there is no logical reason why a engaging model shooting should get the penalizer and an engaged model doesn't... it seems like an overlook (specially considering in M2e you cannot be engaging but not engaged and friendly fire represent the model trying not to kill his own crewmate...). But I guess unless is FAQed that's what the rulebook say...