Scion of the Void Mark of Obliteration

[Rob Lo]

Quote

Mark Of Obliteration: This model may take Actions while buried. It may target Buried models or draw range and LoS for its Actions from friendly Obliteration Minions. After this model takes an Action while Buried, it suffers 1 damage.

 

So, does that include any action, such as Deliver a message? Assist? Push a cursed idol? Drop a scheme marker? What if the model you're drawing LoS and range from is engaged, since technically the Scion isn't?

 

[Adran]

11 minutes ago, Rob Lo said:

 

So, does that include any action, such as Deliver a message? Assist? Push a cursed idol? Drop a scheme marker? What if the model you're drawing LoS and range from is engaged, since technically the Scion isn't?

 

If you read things like deliver a message, you can't take its interact action unless you are within 1" of the model. That's not a range, so Mark of oblivion doesn't get to help it.  

Corrupted idols likewise you have to be in base contact with the idol to take the action. And the scheme marker is dropped in base contact with the model that took the interact action, so the scion.

Assist doesn't have a range, its effect is a model within 2" lowers the conditions, so that can't use Mark of obliteration.

Strictly I don't think it matters if the model you are drawing line of sight from is engaged, because it isn't the model taking the action, but I'm not sure that there is currently an action that actually matters that the scion can take.

[Rob Lo]

From page 13 of the rulebook 

Quote

Any effect that references an object being “within” a distance is talking about range

so don't they all apply? Perhaps the base contact doesn't apply, I don't know if they have any specific language somewhere that says base contact is 0" (was that last edition/faq?), just the part that says physically touching, so possibly not scheme markers.

 

[Adran]

16 hours ago, Rob Lo said:

From page 13 of the rulebook 

so don't they all apply? Perhaps the base contact doesn't apply, I don't know if they have any specific language somewhere that says base contact is 0" (was that last edition/faq?), just the part that says physically touching, so possibly not scheme markers.

 

Good question, I had missed that part.

There are certainly actions that have different "ranged" effects to their range stat. (not many, but "fly with me" is one)

You can be within 0" without being in base contact (if you are on different levels). So I'm happy base contact isn't a range.

I think deliver a message can't be done because you have to be within the distance to declare the action, and you can only use the mark of oblivion during your action.

I was hoping the final rule book cleared this up by giving assist a range.

[CrimsonWraith]

Scheme markers don't work, because it drops in contact with the model taking the action(so somewhere in the void).

Everything else looks like it will work with the rules, BUT every time it gets brought up, everyone screams "it's not a range since it doesn't have a Rg stat."

Long story short, it may be legal, but no opponent will allow it. It is in serious need of clarification or FAQ. Somebody should have said something..... over and over and over.... since closed beta.

 

[psychogeek]

Here’s a tip, the deliver a message says you have to be within one inch to take the interact, not that the interact has a 1 inch range. It’s a small difference but it’s enough as nothing is within an inch of a buried model so no... can’t do it.

[Rob Lo]

And, without trying to be all rules lawyery here, the book specifically says "within" means range, so if you have to be within one inch, it has a one inch range. 

If they had just said the ability lets him take actions on his card while buried it would have saved a lot of questions.

 

[psychogeek]

7 hours ago, Rob Lo said:

And, without trying to be all rules lawyery here, the book specifically says "within" means range, so if you have to be within one inch, it has a one inch range. 

If they had just said the ability lets him take actions on his card while buried it would have saved a lot of questions.

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but the range is based on the model being targeted vs from the scion. That is the difference here. 

[CrimsonWraith]

Deliver targets a model within 1”, its wording is the same as range, I have checked many times. This is an old argument. Basically, as now play as can’t, then there is no fight. Someday there may be a mythical FAQ, but I somehow think this will be left off.

[ebolazaire]

Hi, 

Sorry to Unbury such an old thread but couldn't find anything else on this ability. 

Have we had some more clarity or consensus on what can or can't be done? 

Specifically, can she take the action to remove scheme markers? 

[Adran]

10 hours ago, ebolazaire said:

Hi, 

Sorry to Unbury such an old thread but couldn't find anything else on this ability. 

Have we had some more clarity or consensus on what can or can't be done? 

Specifically, can she take the action to remove scheme markers? 

No FAQ yet, but I will still tell you, you can remove all scheme markers in base contact with the Scion. Base contact is more than a range, it actually requires you to be touching the base.

[solkan]

4 hours ago, Adran said:

No FAQ yet, but I will still tell you, you can remove all scheme markers in base contact with the Scion. Base contact is more than a range, it actually requires you to be touching the base.

Unless you're trying to point out that the buried model is in base contact with nothing at all, that's misleading.  Because any action that it takes by default is subject to this clause:

Quote

These Actions ignore all game effects relating to the position of the Buried model, such as range, LoS, a, p, moving the Buried model, etc.

In other words, "remove all markers in base contact with this model" for a buried model does nothing.  Because base contact is position related.

Out of that open ended list of things that buried models no longer have mechanics for, the Scion of the Void gets back the ability to draw range and line of sight from friendly Obliteration minions.

If the Scion had access to an action that said "Push target model 2" towards this model", that effect would do nothing if it took it while buried using Mark of Obliteration.  Likewise if you gave the Scion the Reinforced Assault Shield upgrade, the effect "Target is Placed into base contact with this model" would do nothing.

Because Mark of Obliteration doesn't contain language specifying that the Obliteration Minion's position or model is used for all of the effects that being Buried says become meaningless, it just specifies range and line of sight.