Zoraida as Gremlin master and Will o Wisp

[daniello_s]

I got one Will O Wisp model and now I'm tinkering how to incorporate it into Gremlin Zoraida's crew. It is cheap activation which allows Zoraida not to waste APs for summoning Doll but on the other hand if you want to take it you must pay the tax in form of Tarot Reading upgrade which means it bumps up the cost of Wisp a lot. of course since you take Tarot Reading you can always take Waldgeist or two as well so Tarot Reading cost would be shared nicely between those hired models but what if you don't want to take Waldgeists? Is it worthy to take Wisp anyway? What's your opinion?

[cfrag]

I only played 2 games with Mamma Z and I felt the same. I dont think a single wisp justifies the upgrade. It becomes too expensive and your opponent will be killing it very easily after realizing what it does. 

I can see it being worth it with 2 wisps and/or waldgeists, since it becomes harder for your opponent to counter the wisp mechanic and it dillutes the cost of the upgrade over various hires

[Dogmantra]

I super disagree that only one wisp doesn't justify Tarot Reading. I mean it's a pretty useless upgrade otherwise, but still so worth the cost for a little ghost called William.

Consider:

• 2ss is less than the cost of hiring the Voodoo Doll and yet gives you the same turn 1 3AP to position Zoraida well and maybe get an obey or a bewitch off.
• Much stronger control over your own activation order if you need a new doll
• Student of Conflict costs 5 and is 1 extra Master AP for 2 of her own. Wisp costs 5 and is 2 extra Master AP for 1 of its own.

[Vorschlag]

One option is a swampfiend crew with gators, waldgiest, boars, McTavish, Wisps, First Mate and a couple of gupps.
Another option is the spawn mother piggapult list where your wisps are summoning dolls and hatching the spawn mothers eggs which can then be tossed by Lenny or catapulted by the piggapult for long range scheme running in later turns.

Of course you don't actually need a wisp but if you want one treat it like hiring a totem and just be sure to keep it in cover or behind blocking terrain and id argue that fickle winds of fate can be game changing.

[Math Mathonwy]

I sort of struggle with this theme as well:

 

[cfrag]

13 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

I super disagree that only one wisp doesn't justify Tarot Reading. I mean it's a pretty useless upgrade otherwise, but still so worth the cost for a little ghost called William.

Consider:

• 2ss is less than the cost of hiring the Voodoo Doll and yet gives you the same turn 1 3AP to position Zoraida well and maybe get an obey or a bewitch off.
• Much stronger control over your own activation order if you need a new doll
• Student of Conflict costs 5 and is 1 extra Master AP for 2 of her own. Wisp costs 5 and is 2 extra Master AP for 1 of its own.

Maybe I should have phrased it in another way: 1 wisp is pretty useful, but for the price of one, you might as well take 2 of them since 1 is pretty killable even when protecting it ( you want to cast the doll in a place  where it can hem the target, and that can leave your wisp out in the open), but 2 are much harder to deal with without sacrificing too much of your game.

[Math Mathonwy]

4 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Maybe I should have phrased it in another way: 1 wisp is pretty useful, but for the price of one, you might as well take 2 of them since 1 is pretty killable even when protecting it ( you want to cast the doll in a place  where it can hem the target, and that can leave your wisp out in the open), but 2 are much harder to deal with without sacrificing too much of your game.

This has been my thinking as well. But then we came to the problem of it being an 8SS-module and then you usually want something else as support as well.

Not saying that it is an insurmountable problem (there's a few solutions suggested in the other thread) or that it isn't worth it, mind you.

One thing worth remembering is that Wisps are still Minions even if they are Insignificant - they count for many strats which is nice (well, in the case of Collect the Bounty).

[cfrag]

2 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

This has been my thinking as well. But then we came to the problem of it being an 8SS-module and then you usually want something else as support as well.

Not saying that it is an insurmountable problem (there's a few solutions suggested in the other thread) or that it isn't worth it, mind you.

One thing worth remembering is that Wisps are still Minions even if they are Insignificant - they count for many strats which is nice (well, in the case of Collect the Bounty).

Exactly. It is not an awful lot, but it draws from you support budget (using terms from your other post about the subject :D).

The models I find working great with zoraida are models that are already strong by themselves. McTavish is a superb bodyguard for Z (she is a swampfiend BTW, which ups his sh to 7), Burt with 4AP is ridiculous, and roosters with an extra hand from Z can also wreck flanks. But then, you better have some bayou 2 card because those obeys will drain your hand. 

[Linar]

But the skill requires it to be a neverborn model. Playing zoraida as gremlin is still neverborn model?

[Adran]

17 minutes ago, Linar said:

But the skill requires it to be a neverborn model. Playing zoraida as gremlin is still neverborn model?

Yes. the faction you are playing doesn't change the faction the model is. If you Hire a Performer into a neverborn crew, she is still an arcanist model if anything referred to Arcanist models.