Unlocking NBLucius, one player's journey

[Masquer]

14 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Tc warrior is almost an auto take for me with Lucius.  Its ability to protect s key minion or enforcer is really useful and if you keep it closer to Lucius it makes a great surprisingly loyal trigger

Secret Service doesn't work with the Terracotta Warrior's Thousands Strong ability. Unless you just mean to shunt the damage onto a model with Armor.

[4thstringer]

11 minutes ago, Masquer said:

Secret Service doesn't work with the Terracotta Warrior's Thousands Strong ability. Unless you just mean to shunt the damage onto a model with Armor.

Are you sure?  It suffers damage and effects as if the action had target it,  It does not actually make it the target of the action.   By my read that should still be preventable. 

But even without that,  being such a good devils deal target makes prevention flips cheap. (I'm partial to aetheric on lucius too).

[Ludvig]

49 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Are you sure?  It suffers damage and effects as if the action had target it,  It does not actually make it the target of the action.   By my read that should still be preventable. 

But even without that,  being such a good devils deal target makes prevention flips cheap. (I'm partial to aetheric on lucius too).

It is suffers the effects "as if it had been the target of the action" which prevents it from using that ability. There was a debate on it over at the rules hangout so some opponents may let you do it but you certainly can't count on using that ability in that way so it's safer to err on the side of caution until faq (so probably forever).

[4thstringer]

I'll  avoid it until faq are released.   

On a side note,  the synergies for Queeg in a nb list seem interesting.   Illuminated, silurids,  gupps, and Rougarou all have (0) actions which would benefit from his ability.  His push let's him keep up with others,  And his whip and gun seem to both be rarities for nb in general.  I might try to sneak him into a list today. 

 

He also feels like a decent place for fears given form (which I don't play enough nb to know if it is useful or not)

 

[4thstringer]

Ok, played 3 Games with him tonight.   Put up a fight that I never had a chance to win on the first 2, then won big on the last. 

All three were the scene set I listed in my earlier post.   Guard the stash with qm, lym, accusation,  and hidden trap.

The first two were against the same list.    That list was a lucas mccabe list with a nimble,  sometimes regenerating yassenori. And yu to give First turn fast to lucas.   First I ran the mounted guard,  mature neph list I described earlier.   The nimble Yasenori gettingadditional pluses from promises  was unstoppable. 

The mature neph killed pretty well, but his combination of massive charge ranges and activation control ruined me.  

My second list into that one was a 2 illuminated bbs, rougarou, lawyer list.   I had to run the Rougarou away,   And probably spent too much effort running himaway.  

Both the illuminated were killed in 1 activation by the Rougarou.   I didn't have much fight left after that.   I managed 2 accusations, 1 guard the stash and 2 lym.

Finally I played the first list,  With a strongarm instead of the mature.  It was barely a nb list tbh.  It did well against kaeris,  but I Was flipping well and my opponent made the mistake of leaving the mounted guard alive for accusation. That gave me the plus to defenses I needed.   My cards were pretty awesome too (red joker OK kaeris early turn 3 for the kill. 

Not sure what to do about that yassenori list.  At the end of those two games I was feeling pretty frustrated and wanted to go back to guild, where a model with elmayor would have been my solution.

I think waldergeists are the solution, but that's my best guess at this point.

[Ludvig]

They seem very unenjoyable to face. Does neverborn have any auras to prevent triggers or charges? A list with a lot of disguised would seem like a good start to handling it although McCabr could have it push near and start triggering.

[ringsnake]

17 hours ago, Ludvig said:

They seem very unenjoyable to face. Does neverborn have any auras to prevent triggers or charges? A list with a lot of disguised would seem like a good start to handling it although McCabr could have it push near and start triggering.

So a guy who can move crazy fast, unload incredible damage, has a 0 version of obey that works on powerful minions like your rogouru, and can take a beating? Even at 12 as it seems over the top. Would WP hijinks work? Beckoners/performers, lawyers, widow weaver, terror, etc... ? Use its high walk against it with Lure?

[hydranixx]

26 minutes ago, ringsnake said:

So a guy who can move crazy fast, unload incredible damage, has a 0 version of obey that works on powerful minions like your rogouru, and can take a beating? Even at 12 as it seems over the top. Would WP hijinks work? Beckoners/performers, lawyers, widow weaver, terror, etc... ? Use its high walk against it with Lure?

Yasunori has Stubborn and WP6, so any WP spells are on a  and he can handle most TN duels you ask him to make. For Lures and debuffs you probably have to focus, and at the point, the Yasunori player is happy that you're using 2 AP on something that doesn't even directly hurt him, and that he can still potentially beat with WP6. 

It's essentially the Thunder's version of the 4 riders, though more direct and damaging, doesn't need to wait till turn 3/4 to ramp up, and with fantastic access to support - McCabe, Emissary, Asami, Yu, Shenlong etc. 

I think the only reliable and economical way to kill it is with high damage sources that either ignore Armour or just hit hard enough that it doesn't matter. In Neverborn, I imagine Nekima would rip Yasunori apart without much trouble. The Strongarm suit that OP is fond of could do quite nicely too since Yasunori doesn't ignore Armour, and he can charge him even if he's engaged with Hounds/Yokai etc.

[ringsnake]

Based on my imperfect command of the game I'm hearing an import of Warden as a generally good option for Lucius. It has a ranged attack that can cause paralyze, that you can replicate with Doppelganger, thus making it easier to pull off the attack after the model has activated, or at least forcing your opponent to hold off until after both the Warden(s) and Doppel have activated.

Snipe it with Autringers from out of LOS? With two of them, Lucius can give them at least two additional attacks with a combo of commanding presence and Issue Orders. Then add a changeling or two for one or two more of those LOS ignoring attacks. Even if you concentrated all of that firepower on one model, you're not investing any more into attacking him than his points cost. I personally hate fielding that kind of 'you must always play this because it's so good' type of model, but if your opponent is pulling stuff like that why not?

Useless Duplications will still mess it up, right? At least force him to randomize between useful models and changelings.

I was looking at imports of Guild models, and just noticed that Guild Hounds get to charge as a (1) when the enemy model is close to a scheme marker. It looks like an interesting trick to pull with the sniper upgrade. Burn a soulstone to get the trigger and drop a scheme marker next to your victim, and then Issue Command to the dawg to charge, possibly giving it an extra 3" move if you get the ram. I don't know if the combo is effective, or merely amusing. Maybe take a Guild Sergeant to give positive flips to WP duels for at least the dogs, and give them even more of a speed boost.

"Why do you call that dog rocket boy?"

"Wait for it...."

[Ludvig]

@ringsnake The paralyze is a trigger and dopplegangers aren't alowed to declare triggers. It also requires two rams so it wouldn't be possible either way. Good news are that wardens are cheaper than dopplegangers and Lucius can force them to make additional attacks since they are minions.

Hounds are fun, they also work well when Lucius is engaged and uses what lackeys are for to place a marker and get away from the opponent. The push trigger is built in so they can always push and charge. With Lucius' new better aura they can probably overwhelm your opponent with plus flips and get a few points of damage in.

[ringsnake]

7 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

@ringsnake The paralyze is a trigger and dopplegangers aren't alowed to declare triggers. It also requires two rams so it wouldn't be possible either way. Good news are that wardens are cheaper than dopplegangers and Lucius can force them to make additional attacks since they are minions.

Hounds are fun, they also work well when Lucius is engaged and uses what lackeys are for to place a marker and get away from the opponent. The push trigger is built in so they can always push and charge. With Lucius' new better aura they can probably overwhelm your opponent with plus flips and get a few points of damage in.

Seems like a really effective and easy way of taking out scheme runners and utility models, or so I assume. Build crew around Lucius, Scribe, Lawyer, and two (three?) hounds.

Lucius activates, walks a bit, does commanding presence on a dog to issue it a walk order to move 6", and put Lucius into position for Hidden Sniper. Uses (0) for hidden sniper and burns a stone if you don't have the suit to place a scheme marker next to the scheme runner and flick a point or two of damage on it. If it's not too dangerous, and won't screw up your plans, walk and Commanding presence again with Lucius, and get that enemy model about 8" or so away, so when it's charged your hound is getting a + on attacks. Issue Command to the dog, push it 3" or give it focus, and then use that (1) from issue command to have it charge up to 9" at the enemy model. If I'm seeing this right, the dog's pouncing on things from as much as 19" away.

[Ludvig]

If you take three hounds they can also run schemes decently. The big problem with hounds is that a lot of models can blast them all away with a single ap since they want to hang out close to each other when they scheme run. 

[4thstringer]

40 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

If you take three hounds they can also run schemes decently. The big problem with hounds is that a lot of models can blast them all away with a single ap since they want to hang out close to each other when they scheme run. 

I haven't found hounds to be better than tots when it comes to scheme running, though I'm sure I could be convinced otherwise.  I guess the hounds will be available at a higher range for issue command though.

[Ludvig]

Forgot this was neverborn tbh Tots can't act as auto-suckers in frame for murder. A hound camping near Lucius with surprisingly loyal makes you almost immune to assassination while frame is about 100% assured. Might even take that in neverborn if those two schemes turn up as a combo. 

Otherwise tots are usually more fun and in some instances you can even devil's deal to get them to bleed on enemies. Edit: bonus silly points if you bleed the tot for 2hp to get the trigger to heal it 2 hp

[Bakunin]

Do you really want to spend three of your four Guardsmen slots on Guild Hounds when Corrupted Hounds are already in-faction? Sure, Corrupted Hounds can't charge as a (1), but they get A New Master for  to all duels off-activation, which is great with all the commands Lucius can give out. They also have Black Blood, so they're cheap targets for Black Blood Pustule if you brought a Shaman.

[4thstringer]

I'm picturing Lucius and 8 hounds, 2 tots, 2 changelings, a scribe and a depleted as my next list. Surprisingly Loyal and 1 stone left.

[Ludvig]

Lol! Drop the scribe and depleted for a black blood shaman. You will want to hit high defenses without a duel and you're drowning in bb models.

[4thstringer]

I don't think I have another game until next week, but the swarm list is coming.  The real question is, should I be proxying alps or gupps instead of some of the pieces I am bringing now?

 

[Ludvig]

Maybe alps for aura card drains. They have some slim chance of summoning too I think

[ringsnake]

I've been thinking about this quite a bit, and have gone off in a very different direction with him for NB Lucius:

 

35SS

Lucius with Surprisingly Loyal

- Widow Weaver

- Guild Lawyer

- Performer

- Will O' The Wisp x 2

- Insidious Madness

Pandora Light with extra activations instead of flicking damage onto things that fail their WP checks, and then add some poison and expunge tricks with Lawyer's Fruit of the Poisoned Tree and the Performer's 'sip of wine'

Widow Weaver also has poison as an option, and web markers for knocking down WP of course.

 

[4thstringer]

So I have a game Monday, likely facing that Yassenori list again.  Here are the schemes and strats:

 

Deployment: Corner

Strategy: Headhunter

Scheme Pool: Claim Jump Eliminate the Leadership Accusation! Search the Ruins Hunting Party

I wish I weren't locked into to lucius right now because this is going to be a really tough pool.

I'm thinking Barbaros to try to mess up the first turn assassination run.  Other than that, I'm not sure the direction I will go.  

 

[Ludvig]

6 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

So I have a game Monday, likely facing that Yassenori list again.  Here are the schemes and strats:

 

Deployment: Corner

Strategy: Headhunter

Scheme Pool: Claim Jump Eliminate the Leadership Accusation! Search the Ruins Hunting Party

I wish I weren't locked into to lucius right now because this is going to be a really tough pool.

I'm thinking Barbaros to try to mess up the first turn assassination run.  Other than that, I'm not sure the direction I will go.  

 

Tannen? Good combo and my heanthunter games tend to end up as scrums somewhere with a large model count which means both cooler and chatty is handy to have. Not sure if a single beckoner and two-three illuminated could act as a yasinori deterrent and pull stuff in to eat easy heads.

[Lucky_Dice_6]

10 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

So I have a game Monday, likely facing that Yassenori list again.  Here are the schemes and strats:

 

Deployment: Corner

Strategy: Headhunter

Scheme Pool: Claim Jump Eliminate the Leadership Accusation! Search the Ruins Hunting Party

I wish I weren't locked into to lucius right now because this is going to be a really tough pool.

I'm thinking Barbaros to try to mess up the first turn assassination run.  Other than that, I'm not sure the direction I will go.  

 

I like Lucius in Headhunter, his zero is perfect for that.

If you are scared of someone killing you master in NB always that aether connection, with lucius ablility to have extra stones can make it diffical to kill him.

And even if he manage to kill you master the game is not over. This is not warmachine. play for points and make sure you pick up lucius head for points

[Ludvig]

3 hours ago, Lucky_Dice_6 said:

I like Lucius in Headhunter, his zero is perfect for that.

If you are scared of someone killing you master in NB always that aether connection, with lucius ablility to have extra stones can make it diffical to kill him.

And even if he manage to kill you master the game is not over. This is not warmachine. play for points and make sure you pick up lucius head for points

That Yasinor killing Lucius aounds like two guarantueed strat points while you keep your distance to the rest of the opposing crew.

Search the ruins sounds doable for any Lucius or nvb crew (dopple). The dopple can also take a few swings at the Yasinoriwith double positives if Lucius makes it (scribe putting him at df 7 and pawning off a couple of hits on something should help).

[4thstringer]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

That Yasinor killing Lucius aounds like two guarantueed strat points while you keep your distance to the rest of the opposing crew.

Search the ruins sounds doable for any Lucius or nvb crew (dopple). The dopple can also take a few swings at the Yasinoriwith double positives if Lucius makes it (scribe putting him at df 7 and pawning off a couple of hits on something should help).

I'm thinking about using Lucius as bait, and having Nekima waiting.

If I know my opponent, McCabe will be in my face turn 1 too.