Ashes and dust with Saw or Parker?

[keget]

So I can totally see how good the A&D would be with Levi, and even with the Viks (as he could keep up), but I am not sure about him with Daw or Parker.  Anyone find this a great idea?  What army did you use?

Thanks,

Steven

[Seadhna]

Note that "Tormented" is not a condition, but a characteristic, so you could Torment A&D with a Guilty, then proceed to engage in all kinds of Jack Daw shenanigans such as Creeping Terror for a 7" Industrial Age, Twist and Turning A&D across the board or sticking both Firing Squad onto the target and Bigger They Are onto A&D.

Still, A&D is kinda squishy. Not to mention that Daw is really hungry for points, so a 13-point model has to do something extraordinary apart from "i wreck face and refuse to die and summon abominations on a lucky crow"

[Kirby]

Daw and A&D get along splendidly.  As noted above you can give it Tormented with a Guilty or with the "kill a minion" curse if you're really needy.  Once it's tormented you can give it a free push if it happens to be in range, can Obey it from some distance, and can borrow its Ml7 3/4/6 attack if you need to lay on some hurt and Firing Squad Injustice combo is not available.  That one is a bit card intensive, though, since you need to both succeed at borrowing the attack and then hitting the opponent.

Parker does not have any particular synergies, but honestly Ashes & Dust is so good that just having it out there on its own is never a bad thing.  Parker's crew also has enough range to allow you to split A&D on your turn if you need to prevent your opponent from getting it low and then leaving it together to pop early next turn.

[daniello_s]

I'm not sure about Jack and A&D synergy. Sure you can Torment but A&D is rather independent operating model and I don't think it is good idea to keep it close to Jack to get all those benefits. 

I think it is better to grab and Torment Desolation Engine than A&D. In matter of fact I used Engine in Jack's crew already and it performed pretty good.

[GoldenWG]

Ashes in Daw can do some interesting things. You can ping him with aboms and draw cards then use a nurse to heal him full without suffering the paralyze condition.  He seems to always be used in strong Daw list.

[keget]

I believe everyone, but I can't see how to fit him in without losing too much.  How about some example armies?  You can even say what strats/scheme you need to take with it.

Thanks, 

Steven

[SlackerLM]

A&D needs practice to use well. That being said, the add mobility Jack gives him is scary! Or, card cycle off him, to prep your hand for the big throw down! 

[keget]

I have tried to come up with some good list, but they all seem bad.  Can anyone post a army lead by Daw, Parker, or Viks and used A&D that works?  You can even give the schemes and strategy you would use it.

Thanks again

[SlackerLM]

Casual/Fun

Strats: (bear in mind that I am low balling the crew, when Lady Luck kicks you in the shins, your going down! Stupid Gremlins!)

Collect: tough but doable; interference: same; head hunter: ok, collect, stash: harder, but still doable, extract: pretty good 

Schemes: (I've done) Hunting Party (or any kill oriented scheme, but I've been working on marker dropping lately) Breakthrough, Mark , Line (I once used his marker drop (0) and had to pick 2 up to get it, Jack and Ashes just went bat guano crazy, Stupid Gremlins!) 

Jack Daw: Writhing Torment, Bigger They Are, 3 Curses; 4 stones

Ashes & Dust 

2 Abomination 

Johan

Lust 

Nurse

The Guilty 

 

[keget]

The 2 abombs just for activation control?

 

[Chou]

11 minutes ago, keget said:

The 2 abombs just for activation control?

Also, A&D with a on the trigger can create more abominations when reducing an enemy to 0 wounds... a couple of hits and you can summon a Desolation engine!

[fauxreigner]

1 hour ago, keget said:

The 2 abombs just for activation control?

 

And cards! Its a common tactic to have them damage A&D for card draw, and then heal him up with the nurse.

Honestly, A&D is an amazing model that would work with any master. He can essentially run part of the table on his own, and summon aboms to increase his table presence further, so works perfectly well as a solo piece outside of all the synergies and bubbles your master is bringing. For Jack and Parker, its probably a trap to focus on how your master can support and synergize with A&D (and vice versa). Just let them do their own thing in different parts of the table. I've recently started playing with Jack (my first outcast), and when I run A&D they are usually on opposite sides of the table. Jack is going deep and assassinating henchmen and enforcers, and cursing models. A&D is near the centerline scheming away and turning any opponent scheme runners into aboms. My list is fairly similar to Slacker's, except I don't bother with the torment-support upgrades on Jack, as my crew is often too spread out to make the most of them. Taking oathkeeper helps him get a key kill, usually turn 2. And I like the hodgepodge effigy because the crew is light on stones, and he can allow Jack to farm a stone per turn while also dropping scheme markers and popping up cover. There are not any mind blowing synergies here - while the crew has some nice interactions, its really just a set of very potent models each with their own unique skillset and role. I'm happy running this into any scheme pool, the only thing it really struggles with is Show of Force. But if my opponent wants to bunch up important models in the center where they can be cursed or killed, that works for me.

Jack Daw: Oathkeeper, Bigger They Are, 3 Curses, 2 stones

Ashes & Dust 

Johan

Sue

Lust 

Nurse

Abomination 

Hodgepodge effigy

[fauxreigner]

As for Parker... he is probably my next outcast master, and I think I'll be running A&D with him too. Again, no mind-blowing synergies - I expect them to be in different places doing different things. But I will say that Parker's ability to push A&D from 18" away seems very potent. One way my opponents try to deal with A&D is just to bog him down with a tanky (usually armored) model for most of the game. If A&D is just standing there doing 4 damage per turn, or wasting time with disengaging moves, then he's been wasted. Parker's ability to get him out of those situations without using his own AP is pretty appealing.

[SlackerLM]

3 hours ago, Chou said:

Also, A&D with a on the trigger can create more abominations when reducing an enemy to 0 wounds... a couple of hits and you can summon a Desolation engine!

Unless something has gone and upset the balance horribly to my favor, I wouldn't summon Deso. It's trading down activations. Unless an interact scheme (e.g. Exhaust) is getting scored on them!

 Faxureigner, I'm digging your list. More of a competition list than mine. I have a question: Why the Effigy and not another Abomb? I really don't use a lot of stones myself, but I like stacking my hand. 

[Seadhna]

Hodgepodge is one of the best Effigies out there.

 

The baseline Effigy stats are crazy good for a 4SS model (Df 6, hard to kill and armor makes your enemy do really unfavourable trades if they want to kill him), the 3" soft cover is just plain huge and helps you position. His melee attack is fairly decent.

If your master can kill stuff, that's a free soulstone for your convenience. 

Add in the fact that he has Accomplice and you can do a wombo combo of "get some cover, slap condition on master, chain activate, murderize, stay in cover"

[fauxreigner]

@SlackerLM: I love me some hand-stacking too! I have Sue in the list who also lets me draw an additional card, on top of his other amazing tricks. So I still get an 8-card hand. I don't really need a lot of stones for damage prevention - I try to play Jack cagily and use his terrain-ignoring mobility to pick off models without exposing him to risk. But I still like to use one stone per turn on average, either to stone for a mask to place Jack into base contact with a hard-to-reach enemy model (e.g. sniper on a vantage point), or more often just to stone for cards. Stoning, and then drawing two additional cards from abom and Sue allows Jack to craft his "kill hand", which then feeds back to give you another stone to do the same next turn, thanks to Hodgepodge. Also as @Seadhna pointed out, effigies just have an amazing statline and defensive abilities for a 4ss model, which makes them super inefficient to kill compared to other scheme runners. Aboms are also great, but I find that starting with one, and getting one or two extra from A&D through the game, is plenty.

[psychogeek]

A&D is a model I always want to bring. I am to the point where I am forcing myself to leave him at home so I am not so predictable. A&D brings so much power and utility that he is justifiable to put in any list. He is a great pick in any list that would like more bodies as A&D's ability to summon off of killing is super useful. And if he dies you can you the dust storm as a scheme runner or something that hunts other scheme runners. Did that to some hounds once. 

[SlackerLM]

@fauxreigner; @Seadhna: Sorry to follow up so late, time of year, you know.  I was asking more for tactical reasons. I run Collodi Fated w/ Brutal and Hodgepodge, which can control resources reasonably well.