Gamin Upgrade "Commands in earth"

[Cryberg]

I have a question about the Shackles of Earth part. When it says " This model may not be moved or pushed", does that mean that it can't take walk and charge actions or does it mean that other models can not move or push it? 

[Fog]

So here's another use:

The summoned gamin is two inches from Teddy. Zoraida wants to paralyze the model but he can't reach teddy. She obeys him to walk. He can't move, but he did end a walk action in melee with a model with terrifying and therefore must test.

[Durza]

Both, but it can still be placed.

[Fog]

It can TAKE walk actions, but it doesn't move when it does.

 

This becomes important because you can have a situation such as where your freshly summoned, slow gamin may be given the curse Firing Squad injustice. He cannot attack without taking damage and doesn't have the action points to perform penance. You can give the gamin a walk action that does nothing but still spends the ap.

[Ludvig]

In regards to FSI I don't think you are required to spend all your ap, you can pass on taking actions.

[solkan]

To quote the second paragraph of Take Actions in the Activation rules:

Quote

When a model has taken all the Actions it wishes to, it moves to the End Activation phase. A model is not required to spend all of its AP, but otherwise ends its Activation when it cannot take any more Actions.

So there's no need to try to figure out how to take actions that don't accomplish anything (or figure out a way to avoid actions causing self-harm), it's allowed to just decide not to spend the AP and be done.

 

[Ludvig]

8 hours ago, Fog said:

So here's another use:

The summoned gamin is two inches from Teddy. Zoraida wants to paralyze the model but he can't reach teddy. She obeys him to walk. He can't move, but he did end a walk action in melee with a model with terrifying and therefore must test.

If you haven't pushed due to a belle's lure targeting you while in btb with that belle you haven't ended a push for her to pounce according to the FaQ. I'd say this is the same thing or at least ambiguous enough for me to not try to push it in a game.

[Fog]

I'm not sure I can agree.  If you don't move from a push, the push never happened.  It's similar to how failing to disengage doesn't generate a horror duel because the walk action never happened.

in this case, you're spending the AP to walk, you're moving 0, then you're ending the walk.  By spending the AP the action happened. 

This is so corner case I doubt it will ever matter though, 

[lusciousmccabe]

1 hour ago, Fog said:

I'm not sure I can agree.  If you don't move from a push, the push never happened.  It's similar to how failing to disengage doesn't generate a horror duel because the walk action never happened.

in this case, you're spending the AP to walk, you're moving 0, then you're ending the walk.  By spending the AP the action happened. 

This is so corner case I doubt it will ever matter though, 

But if a Belle spent AP to move you and if you moved zero the move never happened.

I can see how you could argue the semantic difference between a disengaging strike preventing you from taking the Walk Action and this rule preventing you moving anywhere with that action (I personally wouldn't) but have you not just basically likened the two to eachother? I would say that a walk that moves you zero is like a push that moves you zero, and if that's like a disengaging strike then Terror shouldn't come into it. 

Hopefully Zoraida can find something better to do with her AP than paralzying immobile Gamin anyway and this becomes moot point anyway. 

[thebarbalag]

9 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

But if a Belle spent AP to move you and if you moved zero the move never happened.

I can see how you could argue the semantic difference between a disengaging strike preventing you from taking the Walk Action and this rule preventing you moving anywhere with that action (I personally wouldn't) but have you not just basically likened the two to eachother? I would say that a walk that moves you zero is like a push that moves you zero, and if that's like a disengaging strike then Terror shouldn't come into it. 

Hopefully Zoraida can find something better to do with her AP than paralzying immobile Gamin anyway and this becomes moot point anyway. 

The difference between the Walk and Lure actions is the results, not whether or not the action happens. If a Belle Lures a model which may not be moved or pushed, the Lure still occurs, the action happens. If the model the Belle targeted was Terrifying (All/Undead), she would be forced to make the Terrifying test regardless of whether the action could actually do anything. The Belle could also trigger, forcing discard, which is "After succeeding," as the action did in fact succeed, even though the model did not go anywhere.

In the Teddy/Walk action case, Terrifying says that if a model ends a Walk action in the engagement of a Terrifying model, it must take the test. So, for example, if a model fully capable of moving activates in the engagement of a Terrifying model, but doesn't go anywhere, the it must still take the test (this would be a silly, counter-productive thing to do, but still), as a Walk action ended. The Obeyed Gamin would be in the same position.

There is also an important distinction between movement generated by a Walk action, and a Push. If a model is pushed into the engagement of a Terrifying model, no test must be made. If a model which cannot be moved or pushed is pushed within a Terrifying model's engagement, the same is true, except that no movement occurs. No matter what the cause, if a Walk action (of any distance, from 0 - infinity) ends in the engagement of a Terrifying model, the model that took the action must also take the test, and, in the Obey situation, that test would be controlled by the Obeying model.

Now, if a model has an ability/condition/etc. that prevents it from taking Walk actions, or Tactical actions (which includes the Walk action), then it could not even be Obeyed to take the action at all. But as it stands, the prohibition of movement does not impact a model's ability to take the Walk action, and suffer any consequences of doing so.