Quality Mash Liquor

[Math Mathonwy]

I often see people taking this but I've never really seen its worth. My thinking is that you should be able to use your Master/Henchman AP for something more productive than a 1/2/3 heal (exception is Fingers but he has that action built-in and he can do his job by standing somewhere being Chatty). I mean, sure, healing a HtK model back from the threshold can be very valuable but how often do you really end up doing that?

So yeah, what are others thinking? Is Quality Mash worth the 2SS and in what builds?

[Four_N_Six]

The ply time I ever take it is on Trixie, and only in games when I know I want healing but don't have room for fingers, or I know I'd prefer Trixie for her abilities. Games like undercover entourage. I'll make her the target, and that way she can guarantee to be over half wounds

[Math Mathonwy]

2 minutes ago, Four_N_Six said:

The ply time I ever take it is on Trixie, and only in games when I know I want healing but don't have room for fingers, or I know I'd prefer Trixie for her abilities. Games like undercover entourage. I'll make her the target, and that way she can guarantee to be over half wounds

Aye, Trixie is kinda the only one I would consider taking it since she has Reckless and is something of a support model but even there her Lure and Gun are pretty crazy.

[Blacks85]

Yeah, trixie is the only one.

You can buy it with Sammy as well....

but I usually never take it

[PositronMike]

I sometimes take it on Old Major with Ulix if I can't fit a slop hauler into the list as it can be used to heal Ulix after he uses proper care. Old Major sometimes has AP to spare if he doesn't need to move as usually I prefer to make him attack by Ulix prodding him or triggering feeding frenzy.

[anumberone]

 I do that almost exclusively in my Ulix crews with Old Major, for the same reasons. He's a great support piece with key passive abilities so earning his place in the crew no matter what.  He doesn't use that upgrade every turn just as Ulix doesn't summon every turn but I haven't missed out by not having a slop hauler in my Ulix crews.

[Dogmantra]

Only use I really see for it is to heal the rare non-Gremlin, non-Pig models, although the only model I'd really spend the stones to take it for is McTavish (gators are more disposable), but then I don't want to actually use his AP for it, and I figure if I really need him to stay alive, Dirty Cheater and some sort of chaperone to drop scheme markers for his Gator Snack is probably better, gets him a heal of 3 for a (0) if you cheat in a crow on the Gator Snack flip.

I'm somewhat interested in using it on Old Major, but in my experience I'm spending AP on him to walk and use his (1) push, and I take so much healing in Ulix crews anyway that I'm not sure I need it. I might give it a try.

 

Just generally though I would much rather use 5 stones for a Slop Hauler or Lightning Bug and get everything they bring to the table as well as not having to spend Master/Henchman AP on a half as efficient healing action.

[PositronMike]

53 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

I'm somewhat interested in using it on Old Major, but in my experience I'm spending AP on him to walk and use his (1) push, and I take so much healing in Ulix crews anyway that I'm not sure I need it. I might give it a try.

This might be because I tend to take Penelope but I find that on the later turns I don't need to walk with Old Major. Usually Penelope will push him if he needs to move and the Old Major will use his 0 action to get Ulix to push into base contact. This means that after using his 1 AP push I can either attempt to eat someone I am engaged with or heal Old Major or Ulix. I can see if you are not taking Penelope how you would need to walk more often with Old Major and so wouldn't get the use out of Quality Mash Liquor.

[Dogmantra]

31 minutes ago, PositronMike said:

This might be because I tend to take Penelope but I find that on the later turns I don't need to walk with Old Major. Usually Penelope will push him if he needs to move and the Old Major will use his 0 action to get Ulix to push into base contact. This means that after using his 1 AP push I can either attempt to eat someone I am engaged with or heal Old Major or Ulix. I can see if you are not taking Penelope how you would need to walk more often with Old Major and so wouldn't get the use out of Quality Mash Liquor.

Ah, you use Penelope a bit differently then. I tend to have her a bit further upfield and use the (0) to get Piglets/War Pigs into charge range, particularly fresh ones that have come in slow. I'll give your way a try next time and perhaps I will be swayed into using QML

[PositronMike]

16 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Ah, you use Penelope a bit differently then. I tend to have her a bit further upfield and use the (0) to get Piglets/War Pigs into charge range, particularly fresh ones that have come in slow. I'll give your way a try next time and perhaps I will be swayed into using QML

I think I tend to play Ulix differently to most as I don't usually summon War Pigs at all. Turn 1 I usually summon 3 piglets off 3 different pigs; usually Gracie, The Sow and Old Major; and then proper care to heal them all. On later turns Gracie goes off to do what I need to usually pushed by Old Major to give her s. Ulix stays with The Sow and Old Major summoning extra piglets if required and the launching The Sow and Piglets forward with hunting bow as necessary. Ulix, Penelope, Old Major and sometimes a Hog Whisperer then stay close together with Penelope pushing Old Major and then Old Major puling Ulix and the Hog Whisperer forward and buffing whatever pig needs it mainly Gracie. The Hog Whisperer is there to give The Sow reactivate and pull pigs back so Ulix can launch them forward again.

 

[Blacks85]

14 hours ago, PositronMike said:

I think I tend to play Ulix differently to most as I don't usually summon War Pigs at all. Turn 1 I usually summon 3 piglets off 3 different pigs; usually Gracie, The Sow and Old Major; and then proper care to heal them all. On later turns Gracie goes off to do what I need to usually pushed by Old Major to give her s. Ulix stays with The Sow and Old Major summoning extra piglets if required and the launching The Sow and Piglets forward with hunting bow as necessary. Ulix, Penelope, Old Major and sometimes a Hog Whisperer then stay close together with Penelope pushing Old Major and then Old Major puling Ulix and the Hog Whisperer forward and buffing whatever pig needs it mainly Gracie. The Hog Whisperer is there to give The Sow reactivate and pull pigs back so Ulix can launch them forward again.

 

There is no reason to don't summon warpig?

if you have a 12+ in hand, why you wouldn't add a 9SS model to your crew?

This is basically free, and sure it will impact positively the game

[PositronMike]

On 17/08/2016 at 7:23 AM, Blacks85 said:

There is no reason to don't summon warpig?

if you have a 12+ in hand, why you wouldn't add a 9SS model to your crew?

This is basically free, and sure it will impact positively the game

The issue I have with the Warpig summoning is that it effectively costs a minimum of 4 AP, 1 to summon and then 3 for the scheme markers. This is even before considering the amount of damage suffered by Ulix and the pig.

It is interesting the in Neverborn there is a lot of dislike for grow lists as people think of it like a 3rd scheme that can be distracting you from doing your actual schemes and to some extent this is how I consider the Warpig summoning. It is possible to do and yes you are getting a 9SS model but on balance I think most of the time it is not the best option for how I like to play Ulix.

[Dogmantra]

5 minutes ago, PositronMike said:

The issue I have with the Warpig summoning is that it effectively costs a minimum of 4 AP, 1 to summon and then 3 for the scheme markers. This is even before considering the amount of damage suffered by Ulix and the pig.

Corn Husks & Merris!

I spend maybe 1AP on dropping the scheme markers for my first War Pig. Either take three Piglets and deploy them so they can all drop a marker as a (0) for their first action, or one piglet and Merris who interacts, walks, then uses her (0) to drop another marker. Corn Husks is especially great just because piglets are already great for the distract-type schemes, and it turns the interact for that into a (0) in most cases. Even if you never get another benefit from Corn Husks, 2 stones for that upgrade and 3 for Husbandry is still a discount of 4 stones off a regular War Pig (although you also don't get the Ripples upgrade as of wave 4 I suppose)

[PositronMike]

I agree Corn Husks helps a lot as the piglets will be taking interacts as (0)s and all pigs will be eating enemy scheme markers, I almost always have Old Major carry it. I have never used Merris in my Ulix crews but I can see how she would help get a Warpig out turn 1.

I guess it just comes down to crew composition, I generally like running one of two Ulix crews: Piglet summoning spam or Wild Boar missiles. If I go for piglet summoning spam I am taking Old Major, The Sow, Gracie and Penelope. With Husbandry and Corn Husks it is 34 stones as the core of the crew but I can easily summon 3 piglets turn 1 and 2 while still advancing up field. The Wild Boar missile crew I don't take Husbandry in so there is no summoning apart from maybe The Sow or Lenny.

It is part of the attraction of Malifaux for me of how different people can look at the same models and see completely different ways to run them.

[Anung Un Rama]

How does the boar list generally do in games?