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Seamus list for growth league


kOOn

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Hi

I'm starting a Seamus crew for a growing league.

The growth are:

Period 1: 26 SS crew, 1. September - 31. october 2016

Period 2: 30 SS crew, 1. November - 30. november 2016 

Period 3: 40 SS crew, 1. December 2016 - 31. january 2017

Periode 4: 50 SS crew, 1. februar til 31. marts 2017

i want to start out with a fixed list with fixed upgrades to slowly practise the Seamus tricks and the models.

I'm considering

Seamus: Sinister rep, red chapel og Corpse bloat. A bit much on upgrades, but I want to practise using them.

Corpse bloat is to make sure I get the corpse markers i need in the later periods and for no eyes on me if the table doesn't favor Seamus

Copy cat killer

Nurse
2 rotten belles 

Probably not a strong list, but I see these models as my base to build on.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Kim

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Yin is great with Seamus. I've had success with the Valedictorian, but I'd only buy the Transmortis box if you intend to branch out to Nico/Horror Molly as well. Rogue Necromancy is a very good beater and has a good Synergy with Sinister Reputation and all the Wp attacks in a Seamus crew (due to smell fear). Dead doxies are also good.

If you need scheme runners, Crooligans from Molly's box have some synergy with Seamus (though it's usually not that significant) and Necropunks are one of the best dedicated scheme runners in the game.

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So welcome to Malifaux! A few pointers and tips I'd suggest. I'm making an assumption you are a newer player.

Remember this, the game at 26 SS is a VERY different game than at 50 SS. The game was balanced around the 50SS mark and if you go too high above that or too far below the game gets very weird. The important things about lower SS games is that the game tends to be VERY swingy. Killers and summoners tend to do very well in low SS games. the reason for this is that Malifaux is at base a game all about resource management. The fewer resources you come into the game with, the more each of those is worth. If I run Nekima strait into your 26 SS crew from early game and just rip 50%+ of your crew to shreds you have very little left that can then counter strike her, or achieve your goals. Similarly if you can from early game start adding to your resources, then even if you aren't killing outright the enemy you are bogging them down and tying them up, freeing the models you actually hired to go and do their jobs. 

So it's VERY important to remember that how the game plays as 50SS is not the same as the games you will be playing early. At low SS games tend to go wildly one way or the other very quickly in my experience, and it is important to know that going in and not get frustrated or discouraged by it.

So if I were doing a slow grow league, and I wanted to build a Seamus crew, I'd probably build the following:

Resurrectionists - 26ss Crew

Seamus -- 4SS Cache
+Sinister Reputation - 1ss
+Red Chapel Killer - 1ss

  • Copycat Killer - 3ss
  • Carrion Emissary - 10ss
    +Conflux of Infamy - 0ss
  • Rotten Belle - 5ss
  • Rotten Belle - 5ss

My reasoning: You are going to want killers in this crew. In your first list you left everything to Seamus and the CCK to clean up. Seamus as a rule is VERY susceptible to conditions, and the CCK isn't all that hard to remove. In certain games that might not be an issue, but at low SS if either one is marginalized with the crew you had it would be close to game over. If you wanted to stick with the build you had, I'd suggest dropping all of Seamus' upgrades and going with Bag, Unnerving Aura, and Decaying Aura.

The build I recommend isn't optimal but it adds a few things your list lacked (though a nurse is almost always a good idea). First it adds another killer in the carrion Emissary who is very fast and maneuverable, with a decent attack action. The Emissary also speeds up your belles to walk 6 if they activate within 6" of him, turning them into decent resilient scheme runners when required. He also has some scheme action going with one of his actions, and can generate blocking terrain to hide Seamus, give a jump point to Seamus, or just really mess up the enemies plans. With the Conflux of infamy and 2 Belles he is relatively sturdy, thought a dedicated killer on the opposing side can usually take him out so be careful. He also brings Blasts, and a 0 action on the conflux to thrown enemy models around. A very solid toolbox model who can also help kill what you need. Additionally when you use the shards you'll get a mindless zombie at the end of each turn, helping you gum up the works and get corpse markers for summoning more belles or jumping around the board.

You can go with the Bag or rep in this list, and I'm not sure which is better. I err on the side of reputation, not for the WP component, as with only 2 belles you aren't really gaining a lot, other than the better ability to slow models near him with the belle's undress attack. The reason I *think* it might be better at lower levels is that it gives Seamus another avenue of healing, which is critical because if you lose Seamus it's going to be a very tough row to hoe at low SS levels.

When you bump up to the next level I'd consider adding the nurse, and at that point potentially switching the Conflux of Infamy to the Carrion Conflux. Either are good, but with an extra minion who may be operating close to the Emissary for walk reasons, the boost to be able to flip 2 cards on the attack action for take your meds can be huge.

 

This is just a suggestion of course and should in no way suggest you shouldn't use the list you have given. But if I were starting a slow grow league this is what I would probably experiment with to start with.

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Thanks a lot Fetid Strumpet

This makes a lot of sense.

The Carrion Emissary is released very close to the League start, so I wouldn't be able to use that.

Unless I would be able to get hold of the stat cards and use a standin model?

What would be an alternative killer model to use?

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Stat card is available in the Shifting loyalties book as are the confluxes. The old Avatars from 1.5 are legal proxies, or if you just have a 50mm based model and your friends will allow it you can go for it. 

For Seamus low ss killer other than Carrion,... You could go with Izamu or the Rogue Necromancy, but both have issues. Izamu is a little slow and has no particular synergy with Seamus. The Rogue necromancy has minor synergy with Seamus with Smell Fear and your belles, but he's very fragile, and he will make the game even more swingy. Either your opponent will rip the heart out of your crew very quickly, or you'll rip theirs out. If I had to choose one I'd go with the Rogue Necromancy, but I'd still recommend the Carrion if that is at all possible.

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I personally don't like hiring the Hanged. In order for the hanged to be really good you are counting on getting that one big hit of whisper on an high value high wound enemy model. And in return they are fragile as glass, and not very fast, though incorporeal does help. The problem is they aren't very good finishers, and the math, in my opinion (nd I should point out I'm not a mathematician, so I could be wrong) just doesn't work out. If you take a good beater with some resiliency and a min dmg 3 and compare that to a hanged, a hanged takes 4 strikes to kill a model with 12 wounds using whisper, same amount of strikes it takes on min dmg for a 3min dmg beater. The issues of course being that low wound models, say 4 wounds, take 3 strikes for the hanged to kill in the same way, as opposed to 2 for that 3 min dmg beater. The advantage the beater has is potentially better resiliency, and they can occasionally get spike dmg by getting a moderate or severe. You are also cutting into your AP because the hanged doesn't have a 0 action that could be useful, and granted not every beater does have one, but its still something you have to think about.

The one advantage the Hanged does have is if you are able to put constant pressure on the enemy hand. The terror checks are rarely going to matter for paralyze, but they can put some pressure on the enemy hand. I'm not sure if that is all that worth it at low SS values where there are less models to fuel with cards, so that's a decision you'll need to make for yourself. 

The biggest advantage a Hanged has is if the enemy needs to heal, like Seamus does, to be effective. Then the whisper, if you can get it of, can be worth more than it's weight in gold. However I tend to find that if an enemy has that vulnerability they plug it whenever there is a change they might come up against a Hanged. I know whenever I play against dressers with my Seamus list, or outcasts, I always very strongly consider, and often put in, Johan or Chiaki specifically because I know if a hanged shows up and I don't have a way to get rid of any no healing condition that get puts on Seamus I might as well just not play with my master for all the length of time he'll actually be on the board. 

Now with that said, I still do hear how amazing others find hanged, and I do try to use them on occasion just to see if lighting will occasionally strike. You should of course try the model yourself and make up your own mind about it. I find, personally, the Hanged are just very fragile swingy models, and I'm not sure, especially at low SS which are themselves very swingy, if he's the right model, but of course I could certainly be wrong.

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Thanks a lot for the excellent input, I've gotten the cards for the emissary now and he really does synergize with Seamus a lot, especially since I'm going to play him all the time and with a fixed list no matter the board, strats and schemes.

He was actually on my list as a model to scratchbuild at some point given his cost.

I'll come back with my thoughts on the list after a testrun on thursday.

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After 2 testgames yesterday i'm really happy with the list. Lost the games 2-4 and 2-5 but I refrained from summoning any Belles since it's a bit much in 26 SS.

It was only my 2nd and 3rd games and against experienced players.

The list works really well, I just have to learn how to play the schemes. 

Game 1 I could actually have drawn or won if I hadn't chosen the wrong frame for murder target.

Now I'll get some more games in, but any input on 40 and 50 SS lists is most welcome.

At 30 I'll just add a nurse and go with a cache of 3. A cache of 4 in 26SS when I'm only summoning zombies is more than enough.

I do wan't to keep the current models I think, I love the Carrion Emissary and the really gOOd synergy with Seamus.

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  • 1 month later...

Gonna be playing my Seamus again after a long hiatus myself and I hadn't really considered how good Shards w/ the Emissary would be. After reading through this gonna try bringing both a Hanged and the Emissary along for testing. 

 

As as you get up in points I'd definitely look at working Sybelle in, her synergy with Belles, additional hand pressure from horror checks and her upgrade trigger are all great in a Seamus crew.

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When you get to the 40SS level, Sybelle plus her two specific upgrades are great--or at  least Sybelle with Bleeding Tongue.

With Bleeding Tongue, you can have her smack Seamus Turn 1 to have him back alley, which allows Seamus to take interact actions Turn 1--the interaction restriction on back alley only applies to the current activation. It also lets you position Seamus early, forcing your opponent to respect his threat range and play around it, or Seamus can back alley later in the turn to activate and fire up to 3 times (with Sin Rep), double focus fire (for higher chances of 8 damage), or fire and charge (if you use the bag, this will likely result in 8 damage with some interesting triggers). Sybelle also gainstwo really useful triggers--with a flourish is especially useful because in smaller games, it reads your opponent discards cards or paralyzes itself on Seamus/terrifying models other than Sybelle.

Smaller games are much more swingy as note, and they will heavily ride on your crew's ability not to explode after your opponent has done his/her stuff. Seamus is easy to manipulate for conditions, but is very resilient when his ability to heal has not been manipulated--he has no cap on how much he can heal via Feast of Fears. Abuse that with Belle Lures and Nurse Meds--with Sin Rep it's like having a Ca 10 and Ca 8, respectively. Don't forget Undress is amazing too--slow in a five model game means someone lost 10% effectiveness going into the next turn or the current turn on a non-activated model. It's not as likely to hit as Lure, but it's like a Ca 7 if you run Sin Rep. 

As to which upgrade you should run, sounds like you're set on Sin Rep. In GG 2016, I prefer Sin Rep generally speaking, but the Bag is more likely to generate consistent damage and help directly with schemes, e.g. Detonate the charges is 100% done by Seamus and 2 SS or 2 Tome cards. 

In smaller games, Seamus will probably play more to the side lines and pick off people so that even your belles can get in on the action--Sonnia can kill, but she only gets 3 AP vs. the 4 AP between two belles who face a lone Sonnia. Sin Rep will serve that end better and provide another source of healing. Use that whenever possible, because Seamus is an excellent killer for scheme runners--a turn 1 back alley via Sybelle gives Seamus up to 3 shots with skill 6 to kill a scheme runner, most of whom have Df 5/6 (meaning 13 hits), then next turn you use a back alley via RCK to kill another one. CCK provides a little insurance in case you miss all your shots or provides a portable corpse in case you need to RCK later and escape.

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Hire Doxies. I know that this goes against all the traditional forum know-how but really, once you go Doxy, you won't... bo-xy? Not sure. But seriously, try them a few times. They don't look like a good option on paper but on the table they just do wonders. I seriously suggest always hiring one or two for Seamus. They also make nice summons, naturally, but I was blown away by their performance as hires.

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You have better cards than me then. Requiring a 7+ for back ally, 2 high cards for Seamus' gun, and possibly a 9+ for a summon just requires too many specific numbers for me to be happy adding a doxy who also requires a 7+ to even just move my own models around. Too much potential hand drain for me. Though if you do bring the emissary with the basic carrion conflux im happier hiring them as you can get a bonus flip to the take the lead attempt.

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  • 7 months later...

My group in town here is running a 35 Point One Day event to get beginners into the game, should I run this list as stated above? I have 1 Stone left for an upgrade maybe?

Resurrectionists - 35ss Crew

Seamus -- 4SS Cache
+Sinister Reputation - 1ss
+Red Chapel Killer - 1ss

  • Copycat Killer - 3ss
  • Nurse - 5ss
  • Carrion Effigy - 4ss
  • Carrion Emissary - 10ss
    +Carrion Conflux - 0ss
  • Rotten Belle - 5ss
  • Rotten Belle - 5ss
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