Somer advice?

[Blacks85]

I've finally done my first game with somer yesterday....Won 9-2 vs Kirai but I came out with more doubts and questions.

Surely Somer is an unstoppable summoning machine, with a lightning bug he can easily summon 3 full health pieces x turn. No question, this is smooth and is exceptionally strong in game - like yesterday - where there is no scheme for killing and you can spam gremlin around fearless.

But when it comes to kill? I found him quite unreliable for a master. On paper, I thought it was devastating also when it comes to kill...but on a second sight?

• Sh 5 is quite low, I was surrounded by Df 6 model (Yes, unusual...) or HTW model so I couldn't even count on the Focus+. On the paper looks amazing, but I found myself unable to capitalize on it. I had lenny in range always...and wanted to shoot on my models to trigger the two blast, but enemy were too spread around.
• He has basically no Ml dmg? The min. 1 DMG makes him so useless at a first sight. Maybe with a focus charge? But it takes all the AP to make - at the best - 5 or 6 dmg?
• I had only the family tree upgrade...does it worth to consider encouragement or can o beans? At a first look, they don't seem to be exciting.
• Is there any other thing I'm missing from it? Any cool synergies or combo?

Another model that didn't do that good was Lenny. It's very, very slow...if you have to use it to counter-strike a crew jumping in your face, is definitively good for 9SS with a good damage track. But if you have to go in? It's very "slow"...and also couldn't really get much out of the "I'll love and pet it...". I couldn't get a tome in the first 3 turns, surely unlucky...but is this upgrade worth usually?

And with WP 1....against those resser CA attack on WP, well....not exactly the best

Overall I was positively surprised from Moon Shinobi: against resser they might be able to pay themselves, mostly if you find the Yin. With the 8" mask built-in with Somer, they can be focus and pushed easily by any bayou gremlin, incredibly mobile.

As usual, thanks for feedback !

p.s. Burt Jebsen is a pure beast, with Lenny and Somer aura is kinda...rude

p.p.s. I've hired only two gremilns leading to a first turn Family tree, Family tree and kill a gremlin for a new pig. Is there a better way to start summoning? What do you hire usually to maximize?

[Dogmantra]

3 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

Sh 5 is quite low, I was surrounded by Df 6 model (Yes, unusual...) or HTW model so I couldn't even count on the Focus+. On the paper looks amazing, but I found myself unable to capitalize on it. I had lenny in range always...and wanted to shoot on my models to trigger the two blast, but enemy were too spread around.

You're right that his gun suffers from only being Sh 5, although that's pretty much the only place it suffers, it's flipping fantastic otherwise. Imo, you use it to eradicate a single mid-cost model, it's amazing for killing scheme runners. The blasts are really good, but if you're against things like HtW I'd try to focus on getting in multiple Thinkin' Luck hits - min damage 4 is still incredible, and 2AP to hit twice is for 4 is just as much damage to the original target as 2AP to focus and hit once for 8. I personally find blasting off friendlies to be of somewhat limited use and would only do it in a niche situation.

3 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

He has basically no Ml dmg? The min. 1 DMG makes him so useless at a first sight. Maybe with a focus charge? But it takes all the AP to make - at the best - 5 or 6 dmg?

His melee is actually really good, but imo it's not as much a tool for damage as it is denial. 2" engagement on a very slippery and hard to pin down model is great, particularly since he has a fairly long charge (14" threat range on a walk -> charge turn). He is pretty good at diving in to tie up enemies with nasty attacks, with the understanding that if anyone really nasty gets in his face he can get out after one attack with Loudest Squeal. The other thing I kind of like it for is as a sort of "punishment" for my opponent taking models with HtK. Got a high card and a stone or a high crow in hand? Thanks for the piglet! Doesn't matter if you only deal 1 damage if they only have 1 wound left!

The other thing about both his attacks is that they do both have fairly big downsides, but those downsides are mitigated a decent amount when your opponent has no cards to cheat with - it matters a lot less that your max Sh is 18 and your opponent's max Df is 19 when they have to rely on flipping that 13 rather than cheating it in. Similarly with his Melee, if they can't cheat to put you on a it's suddenly much scarier because you can bayou two-card the damage flip for a second chance at moderate or severe. And of course Som'er has an action which allows you to make your opponent discard all their cards, as well as Bayou Two-Card and a pretty good way of drawing cards himself.

 

3 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

I had only the family tree upgrade...does it worth to consider encouragement or can o beans? At a first look, they don't seem to be exciting.

Yes!!! They're both great! No mention of the Skeeters in your post, but Can O Beans is more for the Skeeters than it is Som'er. They can fly up to a model and sit there with impunity because they're so annoyingly difficult to get rid of or get away from. Then they can fart twice a turn and drain your opponent's hand as they struggle to cheat up to match the TN 15 Wp duel. It can be very powerful and in my experience at least, people often put a disproportionate amount of effort into getting rid of farty engagement bugs because they're just so annoying.

Encouragement on the other hand lets you turn Wounds into s. A single on a flip is roughly equivalent to +2 to the stat, so if you use it for Bayou Gremlins, you're actually starting to be able to more reliably compete with Df 5 and 6, as well as avoid those annoying crow triggers, or you can use it in place of Focus for being able to cheat vs cover (the extra on the damage flip is generally fine, with this strategy you're going for volume of hits, not quality). The other important thing is that Gremlins don't have particularly high Wp, and Encouragement applies a to all duels as a result of the action, which includes Horror/Manipulative duels, helping lessen the pressure on your hand a little bit more. The other nice thing is that you can put Encouragement on Sammy, and then let Som'er take damage to get s.

 

4 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

Is there any other thing I'm missing from it? Any cool synergies or combo?

one of my Top Tips is when you're going to summon with Som'er, always activate a Skeeter first to give you the aura first, because if you black joker the Do It Like Dis! cast, you're a bit screwed, and this gives you a second chance. Obviously if you've got the BJ in hand or you've already discarded it this turn you're free to activate Som'er first.

Sammy is always fun to hand off upgrades to. Sometimes if you want some summoning but you also want Som'er to dish out the hurt, you can give her Family Tree and do both. Or as above, give her Encouragement and have Som'er take wounds for s.

Do It Like Dis (normally from a Skeeter) for a Mask is great early even if you aren't summoning, since you can spend a couple of cheap AP on Bayou Gremlins or Skeeters to hit Som'er  (preferably deliberately missing) and then push him up so he can hopefully get in range for a turn 1 Thinkin Luck shot.

If you REALLY need extra AP and activations, it's totally cool to summon off a 1 or 2 wound Bayou Gremlin that's already activated this turn for the cards and an extra AP.

This is one I always forget, but vs models with horrid defensive triggers like Rasputina's Sub Zero, Som'er's (0) Quit Screwin' Round can be great because it prevents triggers with no resist. It's an aura, so it's best to use a Skeeter for it so Som'er still has access to his Loudest Squeel. If you position just right, you can block the aura to your own models using enemy models.

4 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

Another model that didn't do that good was Lenny. It's very, very slow...if you have to use it to counter-strike a crew jumping in your face, is definitively good for 9SS with a good damage track. But if you have to go in? It's very "slow"...and also couldn't really get much out of the "I'll love and pet it...". I couldn't get a tome in the first 3 turns, surely unlucky...but is this upgrade worth usually?

Lenny is unfortunate because he has some of the best support abilities in the game, but has two massive downsides. One is his 1 Wp and generally easily killable nature. The other is he is So. Freaking. Slow. Thankfully, Gremlins have some fun movement tricks on models you'll probably want anyway. I'm not a fan of Trixiebelle personally, but I'm literally the only one, and Gremlin Lure can be helpful to move Lenny upfield. Failing that you can also charge him with a piglet in a mask aura. It'll likely only do 2 damage, and that lets both him and the piglet push 8" forward. Or for a less ridiculous use of Piglets, have them use Truffles to push him instead. You can also use Gracie or Old Major with the Saddle to move him around, and Old Major has a (0) action that lets Gremlins push towards him. Trixie and the Piglets are probably the most common and if you take I'll Love and Pet It you'll hopefully have a couple already.

I find I normally have one or two mid-high tomes early for I'll Love and Pet It, and I often get around two piglets out fairly early. It's probably worth taking, especially since it's also a way to have Lenny at least try to contribute to a fight without being in the middle of it (which he's unlikely to be because he's slow).

 

4 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

p.p.s. I've hired only two gremilns leading to a first turn Family tree, Family tree and kill a gremlin for a new pig. Is there a better way to start summoning? What do you hire usually to maximize?

My summoning core is at least 3 Bayou Gremlins and a Lightning Bug, with potentially a Slop Hauler too. Taking fewer gremlins can be appealing but it's possible to have your gremlins get sniped early by certain models, and then you're a little bit screwed. You can always make piglets out of bayou gremlins later, but can't make the piglets back into Gremlins.

[Blacks85]

Thanks for all precious tips.

For some reasons I didn't think I could summon from a Gremlin with less than 3 wounds, I thought it was an additional cost. The option to sacrifice a gremlin to draw two cards is quite interesting. 

Next time I will try the other somer upgrades...maybe also to get a Sammy around to spawn gremlin if I need the dmg of Somer.

I also didn't read carefully the skeeters...they deny defensive trigger as well. Very nice vs arcanist...both colette and Rasputina will like it

[wizuriel]

Also look into Somer's Bigger Hat Than Yours. With him gviing out suits, slop haulers, bayou 2 card and encouragement you can do fine without cards in your hand, your opponent usually not so much. I like Sammy to hold encouragement and giving Somer Family Tree and Dirty Cheater. If some encorugaement Somer gets  flip and if you still fail can bayou 2 card to heal for cheating and a 3rd flip to win the duel. Min dmg 4 is nothing to sneeze at. 

[Sordid Strumpet]

I’ve played Som’er for a dozen or so games by now so I am starting to get a bit of a handle on how he works. I have a lot to learn though, but here’s what I’ve found so far:

Som’er and his crew work best when your opponent has little to no cards in hand. So I’ve found I’m most successful when I play a crew that forces my opponent to ditch most of their cards early on. Combine that with the activation control that Som’er gets when his summoning starts to take off and you can turn lower than average stats into some serious damage simply because your opponent can’t cheat and you still can.

The first and most obvious option is “bigger hat than you”. At first glance, it looks strong but not so likely to go off. The beautiful thing is that you can cast it, and because of the immense threat it poses to your opponent they’ll almost always ditch their highest card to prevent it from going off because if it goes off, they’ll lose it anyway. And even Wp7 masters need to put out a 13 to prevent it from casting should you also have a 13 in hand. And then you just do it again. And via bayu two card, you can draw out your opponent’s best cards without ever cheating in one of your own.

My favourite model with Som’er so far is Burt Jebsen because of the absurd damage his lucky knife can put out. Min damage 4 is easily achievable thanks to “do it like dis”, so he is all but guaranteed to take out anything with 8 wounds in a single turn, and can put a huge dent into big models and masters should the need arise. He’s basically Lady Justice with a better haircut.

Hard to kill and dirty cheater are a fantastic combination. What’s more, Som’ers summoning also helps Burts survivability thanks to his slippery ability. So long as there are a bunch of gremlins around him, you can only hit Burt by blasting onto him. And when the Gremlins die, Som’er draws two cards.

I enjoy Trixiebelle for a million reasons as well – not least of which is “don’t fight over me boys” which prevents her from being hit so long as there are nearby Gremlins. And her mobility shenanigans (especially with a gun for a lady) means you’ve almost always got a way to reposition as needed.

I’ve found a Slop Hauler to be all but indispensable in this crew set up, mainly because healing is essential to keep Som’er summoning. I only take one of those most of the time, and it’s a huge weak spot in my crew. However, I’ve found that I can generally keep him alive in turn one and often two, meaning I can summon 4-5 Gremlins before the slop hauler is minced. Still a huge weakness to Snipers and the like though – but I haven’t played against them yet so I’m not sure how bad it really is. I think having a secondary source of healing around (Lightning bugs, quality mash liquor etc…) would be handy in a pinch. Lightning bugs are interesting anyway for all sorts of reasons but I’m yet to try them out with Som’er.

The other problem is that all these shenanigans require clustering up, so when I played my first game against Sonnia I thought I was done for. That game turned out a bit different from what I’d expected when Sonnia got dead thanks to an extremely reckless Burt and an angry chicken, but blasters are a big issue that you definitely need to be aware of. The easiest way to mitigate blasters is Merris – I’m yet to take her though, but with Trixie in the crew and her ability to stack the deck somewhat, she is probably quite useful.

The best way I’ve found so far to keep my opponent occupied and from blasting me to bits is skeeters (move 10” and go defensive) as well as Rooster Riders (whose damage output is simply absurd, I have a feeling they should cost a stone more). They charge in and do a lot of damage so my opponent needs all the AP they can get to avoid being torn up or simply bogged down to the point of uselessness.

The last thing I really enjoy when hunting party is in the pool or my opponent uses corpse markers is to take show off on something, so my Gremlins can blow up, put 3 damage on whatever they like and give me two more cards. Particularly funky for those hanging around Burt in Melee because he doesn’t care about pulse effects, and they can finish stuff off he’s left on one or two wounds.

 

 

[Blacks85]

Very interesting, thanks.

I'm still have lot of doubts on slop haulers...considering when you summon the  is built-in thanks to Somer, they can heal 2 DMG to everyone in 2"...I found them super effective. 

However, I do agree that  are hell of a problem because they might blown up your new gremlins before you can heal them. But hire merry if you don't have scheme based on "Scheme markers" is pretty - unsatisfying for me.

However, I have to agree with (Dogmantra? or don't remember who...) that the "Bigger hat" action is not very likely to be used, most a hidden threat. That's because you somehow have something else better to do even if the Somer crew can benefit more of having no cards in hand. However, I will try to give this a try next time as well because I do agree with you that - on the paper - still amazing.

Do you often hire 2 skeeters or just 1?

Question: With trixiebelle, can you shunt an attack to a gremlin within 3" with only 1 Wound left? So the attack basically fails, Trixie is safe and you might be able to draw 2 cards?

[EnternalVoid]

I have been playing a lot of Somer of late as I am painting my gremlins, he was the first one painted so he has been leading the charge as I slowly grind away at the models I have built up.  One of the BIGGEST advice I can give on Somer is to be flexible.  Somer is not a master with a single primary tool, he is a filthy burlap sack of dirty weapons and little sly tricks.

What I mean by being flexible is that it is all good to have a plan for turn 1 onward but be ready to ditch it at a moment notice if things don't play out or you see a golden opportunity.  A good example of this was my last game I played a few weeks back.  It was Squatter's Right so my plan was to spawn a few Bayou gremlins so I could gain a better advantage with out activation and use the muscle i brought to claim one side and work my way towards the center.  I was facing a Von Shill force that ended up having some muscle between the big man, Hannah, and Bishop, and some range support.  Worse it was Close Deployment so my starting plan was to deploy a little further back to give myself space.  Things did not turn out as I wanted as I had to set up first and turn 1's hand did not agree with me.

My hand had a single Mask and it was a 13, more so it was not well valued wise for summoning as the low cards were to low and the high cards were rather high to use for summoning.  He had placed Hannah, Bishop, and Vanessa covering my primary side with a Specialist and Von Shill in the center where they could support.  I ended up activating my Bayou gremlins and skeeter early to force some activations on his end but the opportunity came when Hannah advanced a little to copy and use Vanessa's attack to try and get some early blood.  The Slop Hauler jumped forward and hit her with his range attack making her defense 4.  In turn because he exposed himself a bit Vanessa came forward and tried to start taking the slop hauler out early.  The specialist would join in a bit too.  Seeing an opening I got Somer out from around the corner with out him using any AP and had him double focus shot the Df4 Hannah.  Thanks to the slop hauler I was able to hit with a strait result and make sure I got the moderate damage to hit Hannah and Vanessa was in range for the blast.  I followed up using Gracie as a taxi to get Francios into a charge where he took out Vanessa and then finished off Hannah with his extra AP from Reckless.

What was really interesting was my opponent.  He had played Somer the week before from a different player who only focused on the summoning engine and hiding in the corner.  So when I asked him at the beginning if he was familiar with Somer he had replied he knew what he was capable of and read the card.  When we talked about it later after the game he admitted he expected the summoning engine and had been preparing for it, not expecting a bump rush or later in the game Somer supporting the group with his auras and gun.

I have had games where the Summoning was key, I have had games when his support was key, i have had games where him dropping the opponent's hand two-three turns in a row was key, and I have had games where him just being in the center as modeled died juicing up my hands was key.  Heck I have even had a game where his survivability was key, him not going down easy game me the time I needed to win.

 

Now as to Bayou Gremlins I generally have 2-3 depending on how important i think having the ability to have 6 turn one is.  In that Squatter's Right game I had 3 but in the one before it I had 2.  It all depends what you need your SS for.  A lot of the time I am fine with 2 as I use a Slop Hauler over a lightning bug *Don't have one or converted one yet but also like being able to toss slop or charge him in*.  That lets me heal all 4 first turn.  It also gives me one more AP with Somer in case of Black Joker, Failure, or if I want to get an extra walk action or something.

For Lenny I have been teaming him up with Gracie and/or Francois as a hit squad.  Gracie with a Saddle is expensive but her and Lenny can be a pretty dynamic Duo.  He gives her the Ram for her trigger, which also covers your bases in cause you flip a high Crow you want to use.  The 4/6/8 damage spread makes it more likely she will kill models so she can eat them to heal too.  He also reduces damage against her further making her harder to take out, even if the enemy ignores armor he can still reduce it by one which helps a lot.  In turn Gracie can get him around and he can support her on the offense with a decent Ml and damage spread.  Often Gracie will use her first activation for placement, Lenny will soften up a target/drain cards, and Gracie will feast.  It has made some decide to take Lenny out first as they don't think they can get Gracie with her healing and support going on.  With Francois he has helped me a ton when I have gone explosive with his Dump Luck trigger, doing a Severe damage and taking 5 reducing it to 4, using a SS to reduce it again, and then healing from Dirty Cheater can really keep Francois in the game.

For skeeters I bounce around a lot.  Some games two, some games one, and a few games have been none.  Most often I have been taking just one, as I often find dropping that one skeeter can get me that third bayou gremlin or up my SS pool or get another upgrade.  But I have had enough games where Two have been handy as well.  The terrain and if I expecting a range/blast army matter.

[Blacks85]

Surely the versatility is the biggest prop, no doubts. And with it, it comes that it can't be a beast with Sh or Ml action or it would be just too strong. I think Sh / Ml options are something you can keep in mind but not something you can count on, you have to wait an error or an opening in the game and punish  it.

On other side, it could be a good combo Lenny + Gracie to be honest. A little bit expensive, 20 SS are a lot...but Gracie solves the "slow" problem of Lenny, Lenny incredibly boost Gracie...I will definitively try it when hunting party show next time !

Thanks for all advices

 

[Sordid Strumpet]

17 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

Very interesting, thanks.

I'm still have lot of doubts on slop haulers...considering when you summon the  is built-in thanks to Somer, they can heal 2 DMG to everyone in 2"...I found them super effective.

Yes, but you need to attack something for that to go off. And at the end of the day, you're using a 5 stone model that's quite fragile as primary healer instead of a 5 stone model that's quite fragile as primary healer it's a tomarto-tomayto sort of situation. But in my opinion the Slop Hauler is slightly ahead because the healing action just goes off with no need to flip cards (I'd hate to waste the red joker on the lightning bug's "heal" attack...) and it has a slightly larger radius. The bottom line I think is that  you can easily keep the Slop Hauler safe during turns 1 and 2 where Som'er does most of his summoning, and then once he's done with that the slop hauler is handy as opposed to essential. I will start having a secondary source of healing in my crews just in case I do need to summon in turn 4 or something and have no Slop Hauler left.

17 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

However, I do agree that  are hell of a problem because they might blown up your new gremlins before you can heal them. But hire merry if you don't have scheme based on "Scheme markers" is pretty - unsatisfying for me.

You always have convict labour or line in the sand. At worst, she's extremely effective at bluffing that scheme if nothing else. And putting burning 6 on something as well as stacking your deck a bit is also quite handy. It is, however, very had to pass up Rooster Riders at the same cost as her.

17 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

However, I have to agree with (Dogmantra? or don't remember who...) that the "Bigger hat" action is not very likely to be used, most a hidden threat. That's because you somehow have something else better to do even if the Somer crew can benefit more of having no cards in hand. However, I will try to give this a try next time as well because I do agree with you that - on the paper - still amazing.

I disagree. Mathematically you should absolutely always ditch your highest card to try and prevent bigger hat from going off. Even with Wp 7, you need a 13. At Wp 12, you can't prevent it if Som'er has a 13 in hand. It is situational, but I will absolutely spend that AP to draw a 13 out if I'm going to prevent Nico from summoning a hanged. Against other masters it's not that useful. But it also lets gives you the opportunity to spend most of your cards early on a devastating attack without worrying about keeping cards later on. I think it's massively underrated and very handy in the right situation. Even just threatening it if you have no intention of going through with it to draw out a high card your opponent is sandbagging can be extremely useful. You can always cheat it down to prevent it from going off.

17 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

Do you often hire 2 skeeters or just 1?

one, generally. two for interference. I mostly just use them for do it like dis. I've found tying stuff up with them quite unreliable simply because a lot of crews can just target their pathetic Wp instead of their Df and squash them. They're fantastic to go after snipers though.

17 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

Question: With trixiebelle, can you shunt an attack to a gremlin within 3" with only 1 Wound left? So the attack basically fails, Trixie is safe and you might be able to draw 2 cards?

I would say no, because the gremlin has to suffer one wound to become the target, and it can't become the target any more due to having died as part of the "cost" of the ability (that is, having suffered a wound).

 

[Guildenstern]

just noting, from the few games I've had, the opponents who knew what Bigger Hat Than You did , were careful to keep their masters out of Somer's LoS (boo :P) and it worked really awesome against the two who didn't know what it did, but made me feel kind of bad about it =/

[Omenbringer]

Generally speaking those who know about it will work to keep out of LOS (not that difficult honestly given the high recommended terrain amounts for the game and the ability to screen with other models) as much as possible. If they cant then they will throw a high card to try and beat it unless they have a crap hand, you wont always be able to cheat after them. When it succeeds it can definitely inhibit a crews functioning, however Masters are a bit more difficult to deny than simply removing their control hand.

Playing without a Control Hand even in Gremlins isn't as easy as it sounds. It shuts down a lot of things such as defensive, makes you more susceptible to the more devastating triggers that can be offset by discarding control cards, limits your ability to influence your triggers via Do It Like Dis!, wont always hurt your opponent more than you, and if your opponent has Ceaseless Advance translates to a free Reactivate for that model. Further, to really be devastating it requires Som'er to go very early in the turn, this is its own disadvantage.

I am not saying it can't be situationally useful, even a down right NPE when successful at dumping your opponent's "God Hand," just that those situations are not as common as is often made out, particularly if an opponent has experienced it previously. Honestly I find its greatest utility in its bark much more than its bite, your experiences may differ but if it was as devastating as made out it would be complained about much more than it is.