35ss "Scrubs only" Event help.

[hydranixx]

Hey lads and ladies,

Wondering if I might borrow (steal) some experience/advice for list building for an entry level event I'm attending soon. Its focused on newer players; in fact, only newer players can enter. So, I might even stand a chance of winning some games. 

All I'll have to work with are the Kaeris & Mei Feng boxes and a single Gunsmith. I was tempted to acquire a Rail Golem for this, but... it seems cruel in a 35ss event with only inexperienced players (myself included ) to show up with that.

Firstly, a generic burny list:

Kaeris w/ Purifying Flame
The Firestarter
Gunsmith
2 Rail Workers
2 Fire Gamin

[The last 2 ss are to be spent on either Imbued Energies on The Firestarter, the Eternal Flame, or extra ss for Kaeris. If anyone has any recommendations on these, please let me know.]

Secondly, a construct spam list:

Mei Feng w/ 1ss, Seismic Claws, Imbued Energies
Emberling
3 Rail Workers
3 Fire Gamin

Kaeris' list seeks to be somewhat balanced, with good mobility, good ranged damage (I hope?) and some melee support mixed in. There's enough synergy with the Rail Workers and the burning to justify their inclusion. I think. Mei's list is designed to kinda just clog up the board with armour +1 models and/or scheme markers, and then slingshot Mei herself wherever she needs to go. She should be pretty strong in this low points level format.

[Vorschlag]

Which Master do you have more experience with? (if any)
Have schemes and strats been announced?
Do you know which factions or masters you're likely to face?

The more information you can provide the more valuable feedback people can provide.

Usually you want to build for the strats and schemes - set lists are great for learning but arent particularly well suited to Malifaux.
I'd say build for flexibility. 

[BFOmega]

For Mei, it will depend on who you end up against, but I'd get Kang in a list somewhere, to pull out if you're facing Ressers or Archanists (or Hoffman). He is amazingly powerful against them. Hard worker is a good upgrade to try to fit in there in those matchups as well, probably on Kang himself. Something I'd run with the resources you have would be:

Mei with IE, Claws, and Arcane Reservoir, emberling, Fire Gamin, 2 Railworkers, and Kang with IE and Hard Worker. Gives you a 6SS cache to keep Mei and Kang alive with, and the extra card a turn is a lot more valuable than it seems. Also, IE on Mei could be replaced with Vapormancy if facing a shooty/casty team, the free Vent Steam actions are rude as hell. I know from experience that it completely wrecks a Seamus crew.

I'm not sure how much you've played her, but don't underestimate Mei's Vent Steam action, it can completely destroy shooting/casting focused crews.

It would be nice to have a faster construct in there, but you gotta work with what you have. As an aside, the Ramos box (The M&SU) would be your best pickup as a next purchase by far. Joss and Howard can make it into nearly any Archanist crew, but Mei and Kaeris are especially high on the list of masters they like (or that like them). Plus, Ramos is just a beastly master himself (and would be extremely rude to take in a 35SS tournament, so don't do that.)

[bertmac]

I'd add arcane resevoir for Kaeris with the last two stones.

[hydranixx]

18 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

Which Master do you have more experience with? (if any)
Have schemes and strats been announced?
Do you know which factions or masters you're likely to face?

The more information you can provide the more valuable feedback people can provide.

Usually you want to build for the strats and schemes - set lists are great for learning but arent particularly well suited to Malifaux.
I'd say build for flexibility. 

 

Yeah, I feel that. I'm so heavily biased towards "net lists" with my background in 40k. I'm coming to realise that trying to get that 'one list' that is capable in all circumstances, actually hinders more than helps in Malifaux.

I'll go out on a limb here; judging by your picture, you're either the henchman organising the event itself, or his twin. So you probably know more about the schemes and strategies that I do . Armed with such knowledge, perhaps you can divulge some clues as to what to build towards? I kid..

I'm not too sure about factions or masters to expect, though I think there's a Sonnia Criid player, right? I hear she's generally pretty good vs Arcanists. *nervous twitching*

 

18 hours ago, BFOmega said:

Mei with IE, Claws, and Arcane Reservoir, emberling, Fire Gamin, 2 Railworkers, and Kang with IE and Hard Worker. Gives you a 6SS cache to keep Mei and Kang alive with, and the extra card a turn is a lot more valuable than it seems. Also, IE on Mei could be replaced with Vapormancy if facing a shooty/casty team, the free Vent Steam actions are rude as hell. I know from experience that it completely wrecks a Seamus crew.

I'm not sure how much you've played her, but don't underestimate Mei's Vent Steam action, it can completely destroy shooting/casting focused crews.

It would be nice to have a faster construct in there, but you gotta work with what you have. As an aside, the Ramos box (The M&SU) would be your best pickup as a next purchase by far.

Cheers for the help man. I quite like the list you've come up with, actually, so if I manage to have all of that painted in time, I could be running something very similar. I've had 0 play time with her, and clearly haven't given enough thought to ss cache or upgrades outside of Claws & IE.

(I'm stuck in the "target saturation mindset", where every time I think "I should get an upgrade or add to the cache", I think to myself, "well, I could instead get another model to interact with and saturate the opponent's firing lanes/board presence." Too many years playing Dark Eldar )

I'm kinda trying to stay away from Joss & Howard, at least for as long as I can. I feel like once I play them, I'll never stop (they seem to be in almost every list). I like seeing variety.

You're right though, Kang seems dope. Between his taunt, buffs and superb late game heal, I think I'm sold. Definitely good advice if I decide to roll with Mei, so thanks for that bro.

 

11 hours ago, bertmac said:

I'd add arcane resevoir for Kaeris with the last two stones.

 

You know, it hadn't really occurred to me how valuable reservoir is for her. Definitely worth considering. I'm conscious that I might be too light on SS or upgrades though.

I read everywhere that Firestarter with IE is just too good to pass up. So I'm considering dropping a Fire Gamin or Rail Worker to afford both the reservoir and energies. With the 2-3 extra points, I could also maintain a bigger ss cache or include Eternal Flame... You're a fairly experienced Kaeris player; do you think it'd be worth doing?

[admiralvorkraft]

Eternal Flame brings an okay heal and a cheap activation to help with timing. I drop it to round out my cache in every single list.

[Vorschlag]

20 minutes ago, hydranixx said:

perhaps you can divulge some clues as to what to build towards?

Once we have a confirmed date (which we're pretty close to now) all schemes and strats will be announced so new players can familiarize themselves with them.

[hydranixx]

7 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Eternal Flame brings an okay heal and a cheap activation to help with timing. I drop it to round out my cache in every single list.

 

Yeah, I gather that he's not very popular. The card doesn't really seem to do any justice to his story... A pity, cause the model is so cool.  

In your experience, is it ever worth paying for really cheap models for the extra activation order control, in Arcanists at least?

 

3 minutes ago, Vorschlag said:

Once we have a confirmed date (which we're pretty close to now) all schemes and strats will be announced so new players can familiarize themselves with them.

 

Thanks for that, I await with bated breath. 

[admiralvorkraft]

1 minute ago, hydranixx said:

In your experience, is it ever worth paying for really cheap models for the extra activation order control, in Arcanists at least?

It is, and it isn't. The bump between 8 and 9 models in a crew tends to be more significant than the bump from 7-8 (in my experience). Hiring a two stone peon to hide in a back corner and bringing no other minions or peons is a potential way to avoid Hunting Party, but otherwise I need every model in my crews to have a specific role and most 2 stone models don't clear that hurdle for me.

Of course there are also models like Molly's totem that are worth way more than their two stones, so grain of salt.

[hydranixx]

16 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

It is, and it isn't. The bump between 8 and 9 models in a crew tends to be more significant than the bump from 7-8 (in my experience).

 

What about the bump from 8 or 9 models to somewhere in the realms of 11 - 12 models? I ask because I could see myself playing Marcus lists that focus on swamping the enemy in guild hounds and other assorted cheap beasts. Just want to see if that's somewhat viable.

 

[bertmac]

16 hours ago, hydranixx said:

 

Yeah, I feel that. I'm so heavily biased towards "net lists" with my background in 40k. I'm coming to realise that trying to get that 'one list' that is capable in all circumstances, actually hinders more than helps in Malifaux.

I'll go out on a limb here; judging by your picture, you're either the henchman organising the event itself, or his twin. So you probably know more about the schemes and strategies that I do . Armed with such knowledge, perhaps you can divulge some clues as to what to build towards? I kid..

I'm not too sure about factions or masters to expect, though I think there's a Sonnia Criid player, right? I hear she's generally pretty good vs Arcanists. *nervous twitching*

 

Cheers for the help man. I quite like the list you've come up with, actually, so if I manage to have all of that painted in time, I could be running something very similar. I've had 0 play time with her, and clearly haven't given enough thought to ss cache or upgrades outside of Claws & IE.

(I'm stuck in the "target saturation mindset", where every time I think "I should get an upgrade or add to the cache", I think to myself, "well, I could instead get another model to interact with and saturate the opponent's firing lanes/board presence." Too many years playing Dark Eldar )

I'm kinda trying to stay away from Joss & Howard, at least for as long as I can. I feel like once I play them, I'll never stop (they seem to be in almost every list). I like seeing variety.

You're right though, Kang seems dope. Between his taunt, buffs and superb late game heal, I think I'm sold. Definitely good advice if I decide to roll with Mei, so thanks for that bro.

 

 

You know, it hadn't really occurred to me how valuable reservoir is for her. Definitely worth considering. I'm conscious that I might be too light on SS or upgrades though.

I read everywhere that Firestarter with IE is just too good to pass up. So I'm considering dropping a Fire Gamin or Rail Worker to afford both the reservoir and energies. With the 2-3 extra points, I could also maintain a bigger ss cache or include Eternal Flame... You're a fairly experienced Kaeris player; do you think it'd be worth doing?

I've never really felt the need for imbued energies on the firestarter no doubt it helps him fly across the board but I wouldn't generally like something as squishy as he is to get over extended and isolated from the rest of the crew.

[trikk]

On 10.06.2016 at 5:34 PM, bertmac said:

I've never really felt the need for imbued energies on the firestarter no doubt it helps him fly across the board but I wouldn't generally like something as squishy as he is to get over extended and isolated from the rest of the crew.

I always take it. He can swing 20" for leave your mark if its open territory. If you have issues with show of force he can come back to the middle with 15" reckless. And if he dies you get 4 cards.

[bertmac]

4 hours ago, trikk said:

I always take it. He can swing 20" for leave your mark if its open territory. If you have issues with show of force he can come back to the middle with 15" reckless. And if he dies you get 4 cards.

Each to their own! 

[admiralvorkraft]

He used to be free points with Deliver the Message in the pool. He's still great for Exhaust and most marker schemes, and he can get you sideways points on Hunting Party.

[OldMetalShip]

If you're willing to pick up a model for this event, I think Mechanical Rider would be pretty strong. Allows you to skip hiring your Gamin yet still use them.

[hydranixx]

After some play testing with both masters and looking at the pool of strats and schemes, I think I've decided that I'm going with Mei Feng. The event setup is using the old school ones, and here they are:

Game one:
Deployment:Standard deployment / Strategy:Squatters rights
Schemes:A line in the sand / Break through / Bodyguard / Make them suffer / Power ritual.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Game two:
Deployment:Corner deployment / Strategy: Reconnoiter
Schemes: A line in the sand / Break through / Protect territory / Plant evidence / Entourage
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Game three:
Deployment: Flank deployment / Strategy:Reckoning
Schemes: A line in the sand / Assassinate / Deliver the message / Distract / Cursed object

As for writing up a crew list itself, it needs to be a set list, somewhat capable in all 3 games. I've fallen in love with Kang, and he's going in without a doubt. I believe Imbued Energies is worth taking on almost everyone, and he's no exception; it could be pivotal with things like Deliver the Message about. I also think I'm going to take Hard Worker. A pair of Railworkers will make for some sturdy, hard hitting minions, while Fire Gamin(s) and/or Emberling will be on scheme marker, scrap marker and fire starting duty. I think Arcane Reservoir is even more valuable to Mei here because there's so many discard outlets in the crew. So that's almost certainly in, as is Seismic Claws. From here I'm debating either Vapormancy or Imbued Energies.

Does Hard Workers first ability negate Vent Steam when I'm using Sh or Ca of my own? This will heavily influence whether I take Vapormancy or Imbued Energies.

Here's my crew list; would appreciate feedback and suggestions:

4ss - Mei Feng; Seismic Claws, Arcane Reservoir, Vapormancy/Imbued Energies.
3ss - Added to Cache
11ss -Kang; Hard Worker, Imbued Energies.
5ss - Railworker
5ss - Railworker
4ss - Fire Gamin*
3ss - Emberling

* I would love to fit another Fire Gamin in to assist with activation order, but I don't know what to drop to afford him. Perhaps an upgrade or two, and lower the ss Cache?

[BFOmega]

Hard Worker only affects LoS, so would negate soft cover from someone like Howard,  or this like ice/flame pillars or illusory forests. Since Vent Steam doesn't effect LoS, they don't interact.

It could still be worth taking if you expect to be up against heavy shooting/casting crews though. Also, Recharge Soulstone can be interesting on Mei if you expect a mid-range heavy living crew.

[hydranixx]

On 12/07/2016 at 4:43 AM, BFOmega said:

Hard Worker only affects LoS, so would negate soft cover from someone like Howard,  or this like ice/flame pillars or illusory forests. Since Vent Steam doesn't effect LoS, they don't interact.

It could still be worth taking if you expect to be up against heavy shooting/casting crews though. 

 

Hey, thanks for that. I had a feeling it might be that way. I don't have much in the way of shooting anyway. 

After some thought, I don't really see myself needing Hard Worker. Kang already buffs his crew with + to attack & damage vs constructs and undead. Seeing that I can't use two 0 actions in a turn, I think the Railworkers are better off casting Implacable Assault anyway, since both actions cost a discard.

As for Vapormancy, I think simply casting Vent Steam in the early game til I reach combat, and in general being less reliant on getting tomes (which I desperately want for Railworkers) is the cheaper and safer call.

 

On 12/07/2016 at 4:43 AM, BFOmega said:

Also, Recharge Soulstone can be interesting on Mei if you expect a mid-range heavy living crew.

 

I considered it, but my crew has surprisingly little need of ss during the game. I think I could probably get away with lowering my cache considerably.

My mobility (or lack thereof) is my biggest weakness. I'm cutting the Fire Gamin and replacing him with The Firestarter. Holding IE, he can single-handedly complete at least one scheme per round, provided I can pressure my opponent with the other 27SS remainder of the crew.

So, my new list goes as follows:

4 - Mei w/ Seismic Claws, Arcane Reservoir and 1 ss added to her Cache (4ss Cache total)
10 - Kang w/ Imbued Energies
8 - The Firestarter w/ Imbued Energies
5 - Railworker
5 - Railworker
3 - Emberling

I feel much better with the added speed The Firestarter provides. Deliver a Message & Breakthrough in particular, one of which is featured in each game, are such easy VP for him. He also contributes more to the fire synergy than the Gamin does if I choose to go that route; he can stack up to 8 burning between 4 targets in a single activation if necessary, and earn VP for any of those targets that die to burning too.

The 4ss Cache will be used almost exclusively to keep Kang alive in the first two rounds, because I can use him quite easily for scoring both Bodyguard & Entourage. In round 3, I will simply use it to crack some skulls and ensure I get my Reckoning quota at least twice in the course of the game.