Surgeon vs Dragon

[Ressummon]

Hey, I am new to the forum and to Malifaux and have a couple of 'noobs' questions.

First off my first foray into Ressurectionist is going to be McMouring because I love the model and the theme of his crew. However my opponent is Shen Long and his condition attrition!!

I will have th following items at my disposal  (due to funding)

McMourning crew set.

Canine remains additional box.

Guild Autopsy box

Rafkin

What is the best way to deal with Shen and, by extension, other condition removal models?

I could probably add another single box (approx £10) due to budget. Can't wait to join the Ressurectionist surge (resurgence?).

Any help would be appreciated.

[Ressummon]

Should probably add that Shen is my current regularly opponent - I haven't singled him out specifically for poisoning!!

[doombladez]

16 hours ago, Ressummon said:

Hey, I am new to the forum and to Malifaux and have a couple of 'noobs' questions.

First off my first foray into Ressurectionist is going to be McMouring because I love the model and the theme of his crew. However my opponent is Shen Long and his condition attrition!!

I will have th following items at my disposal  (due to funding)

McMourning crew set.

Canine remains additional box.

Guild Autopsy box

Rafkin

What is the best way to deal with Shen and, by extension, other condition removal models?

I could probably add another single box (approx £10) due to budget. Can't wait to join the Ressurectionist surge (resurgence?).

Any help would be appreciated.

First off welcome to the best faction in Malifaux! Second, I'd recommend picking up either Nurses or Shikomes, Nurses are great utility models and Shikomes are some of the best models you can get for Poison crews. At some point you'll also want at least one more Flesh Construct probably, since McMourning summons them.

I'll leave it to others to give advice on Shen specifically, but I will stress this: Objectives (and by extension VP) win games. Don't get caught up killing things when you're playing Reconnoiter, Line in the Sand and Power Ritual. Your Canine Remains are decent enough scheme runners so send them in and get your objectives! 

[Ressummon]

Thank you for your reply. They are brilliant tips and you are right - I need to concentrate on the scheme at hand rather than chasing down an illusive character. Assasinate probably not the mission for me! I love the Shikome models so I will be picking some of them up definitely!! Thanks again.

2 hours ago, doombladez said:

First off welcome to the best faction in Malifaux! Second, I'd recommend picking up either Nurses or Shikomes, Nurses are great utility models and Shikomes are some of the best models you can get for Poison crews. At some point you'll also want at least one more Flesh Construct probably, since McMourning summons them.

I'll leave it to others to give advice on Shen specifically, but I will stress this: Objectives (and by extension VP) win games. Don't get caught up killing things when you're playing Reconnoiter, Line in the Sand and Power Ritual. Your Canine Remains are decent enough scheme runners so send them in and get your objectives! 

 

[godswearhats]

Shen Long relies on generating conditions and passing those on to other models. Expect to see him with Sensei Yu and probably Izamu for all the killing. 

 

Chiaki the Niece might be a good way for you to counter some of those conditions. Also, if your opponent is often relying on Izamu, bring something that ignores Armor. 

 

Hope this helps,

~gwh

[Jokerboy]

There are many tips that McMourning would need to have a chance against a well played Shenlong.

But an important one is probably: Don't bring a Flesh Construct or Autopsy on the table. Every time I play against them, I get rid of my cards in the mid of each turn und Shenlong steels their Reactivate.

The best models against Shenlong are probably the Students. Because Shenlong hates Armor and Hard to wound and his crew loves Trigger.

[admiralvorkraft]

McMourning himself ignores armor so he shouldn't have any difficulty carving up Izamu. He's probably at least as mobile as Shenlong, and brings solid scheme support with his (0) Injection.

Kill Sensei Yu and the whole thing will become more manageable, but over all just play your schemes and you should do alright.

[Ressummon]

Thank you all for your amazing insight!! I feel better prepared to take on the Thunders now.

 

Appreciated.

 

 

[benjoewoo]

How do you and your opponent feel about using proxies?

I bring it up because models suggestions are only as good as your ability to use them. You have a starter box plus some chaffe models and a relatively squishy enforcer. Not bad for starter games by any means, and you can have fun, but it seems like you're looking for in depth guidance on beating a particular master. 

I'm going to guess your opponent is in a similar situation, but it's unclear from your post.

If you can use proxies, then model suggestions with models you don't have will work.

You can have the flesh construct re-activate stolen, but considering you only have Rafkin and McM as your real melee people, I wouldn't drop flesh construct in your games. Just play with a 5 card hand, as though you have a BJ or two depending on your hands. 

To be honest, you pretty much have to run all your models but 1 nurse to reach 50SS inclusive of upgrades. It'll leave you some spare SS for pool, which will be useful for sebastian and McM for prevention, hand mitigation, and suits. 

As pointed out, VP wins games, not tabling your opponent. Use the canine remains, which you'll be running 2-3 of, to run your schemes. If your opponent sends someone to get them, send out guild autopsies to guard, McM to hunt, or Rafkin to engage. While Shen can counter poison damage, he can't counter expunge iirc since it causes damage equal to poison value. I recommend double checking that statement.

Chihuahua is more or less a trump play. Run him in to poison a bunch of models, which may force Shen to activate earlier than he wants to mitigate poison before you can utilize poison, assuming I'm correct above. 

Poison or no, McM is a beater, and I suggest using him to kill the more troublesome targets, which would be Sensei Yu, Shen himself, or an enforcer if your opponent brings one. If the opportunity presents itself, kill scheme runners for easy summons on your not in play canine remains or for a flesh construct if you have a spare, either through purchase or because your fielded one died and now you have a model to actually summon. 

For model suggestions, I like Chiaki as noted above if you know Shen is coming to the table, as she can mitigate the conditions he can manipulate. Not sure I'd recommend her though, because she brings very little to the table other than condition removal, and McM is one of the Resser masters who plays 100% from turn 1, since he isn't a big summoner relatively speaking. 

Seamus box/belle box would be wonderful--nothing stops scheme runners and enemy positioning like an 18" lure with the potential to cause card discard/slow. Gets you a new master if you get the box and belles are more or less mascots for the resser faction. If you get the box, comes with Sybelle who is great as a bus driver for belles and manipulation via her comply trigger.

Flesh construct box--based on your available models, you can't summon flesh constructs provided McM has the opportunity. Since McM naturally only summons two different models, having spares of each would be good, and you already have spare canine remains. These are pretty much good for McM only, maybe Kirai if you are playing a basic summoning set up.

Yin--solid all around enforcer who can dish out poison, ranged attack, and is a great anti-scheme runner/tarpit. Great for future crew expansions.

Dead Rider--he doesn't usually cut it in a lot of my lists, but since you have very limited models, he may be fun to experiment with. TT as a faction tends to have relatively fragile models that can be killed in 1-2 activations, so Dead Rider can be expected to do some work starting turn 2. More importantly, he can drag key targets out of any enemy set up or protective bubble until your opponent learns to block push paths. His melee triggers basically take your target pick and pull them to your desired area, which can be better than a belle lure depending on what turn it is/how many crows you get, allowing you to take some unfortunate scheme runner or available big guy and destroy them with maximum efficiency--e.g. drag an already activated scheme runner and leave him just weak enough so McM can summon a flesh construct off the kill and still do other stuff. Again, Dead Rider isn't normally in my lists because of cost, but considering you would need to run multiple autopsies and canine remains at this point to reach 50SS, it's not a bad alternative and brings a lot of oomph to the table for a single model purchase.

Last but not least, Rogue Necromancy can accomplish much the same as Dead Rider in terms of damage, but does not offer the movement manipulation. More transplantable, however, between masters, and you can summon it via a resser upgrade. I don't think it's normally worthwhile to do so, but again, with limited model pools, one shot wonder models become more useful. 

Hope that helps. There is an extensive McM discussion thread call McMourning Tactica, and it has a lot of suggestions on how to play him. I'm not normally a McM player, but a local player plays him occasionally and we theory-faux a lot. My model suggestions are mostly based on my experience as a Seamus primary player, and all of the models I've suggested I've run except flesh constructs. In order of preference I'd say: belles, yin, flesh constructs, dead rider, and then rogue necromancy.

[MEGAHORSE]

I think a singleton Nurse is mandatory with McM, and as such, Chiaki is a natural fit to prompt Wp duels so you're not just all in on defense duels, as well as healing on a ram, condition removal (even on the opponents) which can be combined with the Nurse's crow trigger to heal your models to full for 2AP. 

Given Shenlong's tricky playstyle and ability to take all comers, you need to force him to activate and react to you and not be able to take advantage of his numerous ways to abuse conditions. A few autopsies can apply poison all around and Rafkin/Shikomes can mop up models poisoned. Force him to react to you, McMourning is scary and incredibly fast. Focus on accomplishing your schemes and keeping them busy using AP to remove poison or force it around. Just take care with the autopsies. Use belles to pull his models out of his bubble and force him to play on your terms, Expunge to grab flesh constructs, etc. 

[JudgeDread]

the biggest thing to remember is Sen is immune to poison DAMAGE not the condition. so let him stack poison, use Rafkin for Damage bonus to poison. when you're ready let either Douggy or the chiwawa use Expunge. Since the damage is generated by the model and not the poison condition he is not immune to it. Also Rafkin's blast damage is nice because Sen seems to like to bunch up in my experience.

Be wary of getting hard to wound models in combat with Sen. His Drunken river Style lets him flip positive and negative twists....super rough when he ties you and ends up with pos 3 twist to damage=(