Torakage--when to use?

[Patzer]

There is Thunder Brothers for 5ss, and there is Wandering River Monks for 7ss. Why should I want to hire Torakage? Please, let Smoke and Shadows out of the discussion because I won't use it until there is (or ever will be) some way of getting a +mask to that cast. Also, I don't like when one model relies on another. The discussion is intended to be about the Torakage, not Torakage+Ototo/Misaki/Yamaziko.

I think they look nice on paper, but it doesn't really translate that well (for me) onto the table. Then there is the pressing opportunity cost of the faction. Meaning there simply seems to be better options, for similar cost. Malifaux have become more and more of the specialist models game. Torakage is a generalist who seems to have fallen behind.

[Skitt_Happens]

Why wouldn't you want to hire Torakage? They're ninjas! Isn't that enough for you? Fair enough, try this:

Their stats are excellent for their price, better in almost every way compared to the 7ss WRM.

Built in  to Attack and Damage for Ml with some very easily managed positioning.

Built in against Sh attacks with some reasonably easy positioning.

The ability to rapid fire a target to finish it off and still move 9".

Perhaps most important of all is Agile. Being able to simply walk out of any engagement you don't like the look of is very powerful: you've distracted me? Fine, bye. You're trying to stop me getting to that key model over there? Good luck. Take prisoner? Not happening.

The Torakage are great for scheme runner hunting on the flanks. That's their primary aim, and other than Ashes and Dust I can't think of a model regularly used for scheming that would last long against a Torakage. They can also nip in and support a brawl, only to excuse themselves when they feel the need.

Certainly they are a bit more generalist, but one or two will allow you to adapt during the game, which is surely a good thing? They are generalist because they are good in a lot of different situations, rather than being just okay.

[Adran]

I would look at them as decent scheme runners who are probably able to also kill enemy scheme runners. If you're looking for things like power ritual on Flank or corner, or leave your mark, then  having something that not only is capable of dropping markers for you, but can also stop your opponent is pretty good. 

The ranged threat they have is one of the best things ove rthe ten thunders brother (who are great). And whilst I might pick the brother in most situations, I'd consider a torkage above a second brother. 

[tomjoad]

I'm with Patzer here. For the price of 2 Torekage I could have either 3 tengu, or a brother plus a wandering river monk (or, given my preference for them over anything else, a pair of brothers and 2ss to spend elsewhere). Torekage are like a mirror image of 10T brothers, in fact. Torekage are all-arounders, jacks of all trades who end up being mediocre at all of them. Brothers, of the other hand, are just excellent at everything, and aside from an unimpressive 6" shuriken, I can't think of any real advantage the Torekage have. They're better than high rivers, since at least they CAN do something, but they are near the bottom of the list of models I want to hire.

[Pyrflamme]

I haven't played TT Bros yet (still on the painting table) but I personally reckon them as not that great as a flank combo of combat and scheme running. I'd rather have them working the center with the option of utilizing either 4" melee or place to get to the flank if necessary. Tokarage by contrast can do respectably in solo melee and always have the option of walking out and placing a marker.

[tomjoad]

That comment kind of highlights my issue with them, though. They can fight okay, not great...they can scheme run okay, but nothing amazing...they can shoot a little... So no matter what you have them do, they can do it some. But there's going to be one thing you NEED, and they are never going to be actually GOOD at that thing.

[Gort77]

2 hours ago, tomjoad said:

But there's going to be one thing you NEED, and they are never going to be actually GOOD at that thing.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Maybe it's because im not into the tournament scene, but when ever i take a Torakage they always are able to do what i need done (unless of course i get crappy flips, but honestly that is the down fall of any model).  They are a pretty straight forward model, they can run schemes and they can easily take out enemy minions with there to attack and damage flips.

I think their strength lies in the fact that they are versatile.  I would never run a 10T bro into combat, i have never been able to do more then weak damage with them, but i never feel worried about throwing a Torakage into melee with a decent hand.

[Yvarre]

I like them in interference for Agile, outside of this strat I haven't hired them during a tournament.

Their walk of 6 also provides a great deal of flexibility as they can get around the board faster than somewhere around 3/4 of the other models in the game.  In Chess, developing pieces forwards and towards the center allows the most flexibility for attack.  I find similarly in Malifaux, which has more zones of conflict, developing pieces to keep your options open and having multiple pieces that can threaten a given area allows for more options in countering your opponent's strategy.  These guys flank, scheme run, hunt opposing scheme runners, and can move in to support other models when needed.  I kinda see them as bishops.

They are also usually at at least a straight flip when attacking. One damage and a poison aren't so great, but three or five with a poison at less cost from the better odds + flips give is actually pretty appealing.

I've also found them to be very strong in campaigns, especially in the early games as their versatility makes them good in any scheme or strat pool.

 

[Patzer]

On 2016-04-29 at 10:08 PM, Gort77 said:

I would never run a 10T bro into combat, i have never been able to do more then weak damage with them, but i never feel worried about throwing a Torakage into melee with a decent hand.

As long as you have a Ram, they are fin in combat. They can also either place 3" or get that juicy 4" ml range with their (0), Focus, then hit. Sure the Torakage will get those + in some other circumstances without relying on suits, but the TTB aren't that far off.

 

[SinJ]

Just to reiterate Torakage, Wandering River Monks, and TTB are really just better at different things. We know that TTB are useful for holding down that marker you want to stay, or reach out and engage to deny large areas of movement. The Torakage are much better for schemes like Exhaust their Forces or anything when staying in combat is detrimental. Torakage are also less card dependent compared to TTB or Wandering River Monks. While it's likely that you will flip what to you need to leap, having to cheat that is a bit frustrating. TTB can put you in weird spots as well if you hand doesn't give you exactly what you want for their stances. My meta seems to really enjoy running cheap fragile scheme runners, for that reason Torakage generally excel due to their more impressive combat abilities.

[Erorior]

I use a single Torakage in most games I play with McCabe, due to the epic swordskills of this lone ninja when she also have the Glowing Saber. The saber is a nice attack by itself, but becomes VERY mean with  to both attack and dmg, since this often allows you to do 4 dmg/hit which ignores most defenses (soulstones and df triggers being what comes to mind). It's like a mini-Leveticus in melee. Throw some reactivate and nimble upon that bad ninja, and hilarity ensues. The most MVP-moment was when said reactivating Torakage killed both Izamu and Sidir before they could activate during the same turn (mostly since my opponent did not activate Sidir immediately after Izamu went down). It might suprise some opponents, and isn't a terrible loss if/when it dies. 

Due to this, I have even modeled the single Torakage I own to carry a sabre-katana-ish sword. 

[scarlett fever]

I only take Torakage for fun and always with Smoke and Shadows.

Whilst I like Agile and Wk6, I don't see this as a valid reason to take them over Brothers and Wandering Monks. Using their 0 actions the others can disengage and then move further than them or utilise an additional AP. Sure it requires a mask or a 6 but I don't recall being caught short by that when I've needed it.

Their Shuriken/Leaf Step is cute, but I've never found it effective and I often feel constrained trying to remain in range whilst doing it.

I do like Erorior's trick with the Sabre though, that sounds like a great idea, but it's unlikely to be enough to make me choose Torakage over some other Sabre wielding trickster.