Underworld king Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I wanted to try and field a simple guard list with models like Dashel, riflemen, hounds, sergeants and so on, but I'm unsure on which master to bring.. does anyone have some good suggestions/list/tactics that they would like to share.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagisman Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 27 minutes ago, Underworld king said: I wanted to try and field a simple guard list with models like Dashel, riflemen, hounds, sergeants and so on, but I'm unsure on which master to bring.. does anyone have some good suggestions/list/tactics that they would like to share.? Dashel would be good to take in a McCabe or Lucius crew. Luna turns hounds significant and McCabe can buff minions with his upgrades depending on what you need. Lucius gets more range with his Issue command on those particular models so the synergy is there. Hoffman is looking for Constructs more often. So if you took wardens I could see maybe taking dashel. Perdita likes to have Family models, but for the most part she does well in any list for me at least. Lady J could support the minion models if she kills something, but typically this would be the Hounds and possibly Sergeants because the Riflemen might not be within range. McMourning is another model I consider to be very general in Guild. He doesn't add anything to the models you suggest except maybe Ignore Armor, but he doesn't ruin them. Sonnia typically likes to have a lot of burning on the field to increase her range. She doesn't synergize well, but like McMourning her play style doesn't hinder those models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Lucius and McCabe mesh best with guardsmen in my opinion. McCabe is a lot easier to get working in general and he shores up a couple of the guardsmen's weaknesses (mostly the fact that they can't put a dent in anything with armour or incorporeal). Lucius has the advantage of being the only way to actually buy Dashel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underworld king Posted March 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 24 minutes ago, Ludvig said: Lucius has the advantage of being the only way to actually buy Dashel. How so.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Underworld king said: How so.? The two come in the same box. Unless you count the metal Guild Captain of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underworld king Posted March 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 ahh, in that way I thought it was a rule or something.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 17 hours ago, Hagisman said: Lady J could support the minion models if she kills something, but typically this would be the Hounds and possibly Sergeants because the Riflemen might not be within range. Sergeants are Enforcers, so Inspire doesn`t work on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagisman Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 5 hours ago, trikk said: Sergeants are Enforcers, so Inspire doesn`t work on them Thx. The cost of 6ss always confuses me. I'm used to enforcers being 7ss <= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Hagisman said: Thx. The cost of 6ss always confuses me. I'm used to enforcers being 7ss <= They would have been about three times as useful as minions and they have the cost and statline of one. Just think of the possibilities if both Lucius and Queeg could interact with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 On 31.3.2016 at 3:28 PM, Underworld king said: I wanted to try and field a simple guard list with models like Dashel, riflemen, hounds, sergeants and so on, but I'm unsure on which master to bring.. does anyone have some good suggestions/list/tactics that they would like to share.? My advice would be: Don't. Most of those models can work (Hounds are great even) but not in one list. Too many glaring weaknesses. The only Master remotely able to balance those weaknesses is McCabe and he can take better stuff. Unless of course, you want to give demo games. Giving it your best shot and still letting the noobie win can be great for demo games. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 23 minutes ago, Dirial said: My advice would be: Don't. Most of those models can work (Hounds are great even) but not in one list. Too many glaring weaknesses. The only Master remotely able to balance those weaknesses is McCabe and he can take better stuff. Unless of course, you want to give demo games. Giving it your best shot and still letting the noobie win can be great for demo games. This is very sound advice. Going deep into the guardsman theme is a massive trap and should be considered akin to playing Xcom on Impossible + Iron man. You do it when you have mastered the game and looking for a challenge or you like the sensation of beating your head into a wall until bloody. An all guardsman list id not recommended as a starting list for a newer player but more something to try against opponents if you fear you will put them off the game by winning 10-0 yet again. I'm not sure how long you have played the game, being new to the forums doesn't always equate to being new to the game. A few guardsmen can make very strong lists and that they do have some nice uses but don't go overboard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Yeah, sadly Guardsmen aren't.... good. Worse yet, a lot of models we've got tried not to strictly outclass them and ended up similarly... not good. Patrol specifically triggering off of another Gulid Guard instead of any Guardsman is the big mistake I see, but they're just all kinds of mediocre. They try to do too many things and none of them well. Luckily, it just doesn't take that many models to fill up a list and we do have a few solid Guardsman models. Austringers are the obvious pick, along with Hounds. The Pathfinder is quite good, and the Sergeant's scheme marking kicking tricks have a place now and then. Unfortunately though, the guys that feel like traditional police, the Guards, Dashel, Riflemen just... aren't that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Dirial said: My advice would be: Don't. Most of those models can work (Hounds are great even) but not in one list. Too many glaring weaknesses. The only Master remotely able to balance those weaknesses is McCabe and he can take better stuff. What's this better stuff McCabe can take? I could totally put all the models listed in a serious McCabe list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Dashel doesn't do a whole lot for McCabe at least. Riflemen sadly don't compare all that favorably to Austringers. That said, its pretty hard to find anything that doesn't work in a serious McCabe list. That man has the Midas touch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 23 minutes ago, LunarSol said: Dashel doesn't do a whole lot for McCabe at least. Riflemen sadly don't compare all that favorably to Austringers. That said, its pretty hard to find anything that doesn't work in a serious McCabe list. That man has the Midas touch. Riflemen do a lot more damage than Austringers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underworld king Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 47 minutes ago, Myyrä said: What's this better stuff McCabe can take? I could totally put all the models listed in a serious McCabe list. Well, show me I've been in Malifaux since mid Mk1, but took a break sometime before MK2.. I've primarily done Outcasts so technically I'm new to Guild.. The primary reason that I want to field guards is that I have a strong love for theme lists, and "standard infantry", which is pretty much guards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 19 minutes ago, Underworld king said: Well, show me Show you what? The list? It would look something like this. I would like to point out that I would need a special reason to bring that Sergeant. 90% of the time I would rather take an Austringer or a Pathfinder. The list could work with Queek as well, but I'm bit worried it might be a tad too difficult to keep my models alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 As much as I like Dashel and a pair of Riflemen, I can't help but feel like 9 SS is too much to pay for the ability they feel designed around. Austringers do less certainly, but the 7 SS left over can really make up the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagisman Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 2 hours ago, LunarSol said: As much as I like Dashel and a pair of Riflemen, I can't help but feel like 9 SS is too much to pay for the ability they feel designed around. Austringers do less certainly, but the 7 SS left over can really make up the difference. Its the force multiply factor of Dashel that you are paying for and he doesn't do it well. Although it does look good on paper, usually its not the best thing for your crew to do. How to Guild Rifleman with Dashel: Activate Dashel(Do whatever with him) Companion a nearby Guild Rifleman. While no Enemies Nearby: Wk towards. If enemy nearby 0 action focus from Dashel If target is in cover 1 action Focus Else 1 action Shoot If AP is left then 1 action Focus This will result in + for Dashel being activated and using a focus action. Minimum damage will be 3, unless you flip another . Continue with the Lucius Follow Up: Lucius 1 action Move Commanding Presence the Guild Rifleman who takes a horror duel and hopefully passes If target is still alive 1 action shoot If target is dead 1 action Move towards next target. Next Lucius Issues command If no Card >= 7 in hand Stone for If no Card >= 7 in hand Stone for Ram If Card >= 7 1 action Issue Command Guild Rifleman then: If issue command and within range of Target Gain focus and 1 Action Shoot If issue command and no target within range Gain Focus and 1 action to either Walk or Defensive If you get your cards right you can get equivalent of 3 activations out of one model with a Sh action with min 3 damage. But at the cost of 2 AP from Lucius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 That basically just underlines why Lucius is a pretty sad Master. McCabe could spend just 1 ap and (0) action and the Rifleman would get 3 focused shots, 4" push and two walk actions (and he's faster, hits harder, can buff non-minion models, etc.) Why haven't I played McCabe in such a long time? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 16 minutes ago, Myyrä said: That basically just underlines why Lucius is a pretty sad Master. McCabe could spend just 1 ap and (0) action and the Rifleman would get 3 focused shots, 4" push and two walk actions (and he's faster, hits harder, can buff non-minion models, etc.) Why haven't I played McCabe in such a long time? This is the thing. Lucius supposedly buffs minions at the expense of his own damage output and the crews flexibility but McCabe just takes that and does it a lot better while also doing a lot more useful stuff himself and being more flexible in what kind of models he takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I was going to comment on Lucius being able to buff Illuminated in his other faction and then... yeah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagisman Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 21 minutes ago, LunarSol said: I was going to comment on Lucius being able to buff Illuminated in his other faction and then... yeah If there is one thing I've realized when playing Guild is that a lot of our Duel Faction Masters are more suited to their Non-Guild sides. This is complete conjecture though as I am the only Guild player in my group and those Guild players who come from nearby I don't get to talk to too often. The power levels across faction are pretty close together in my opinion. Though I'll agree now that Enforcer and Henchman based crews have gotten a major boost which has pushed Lucius's Minion style down to a lower tier of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I find its more that there are more interesting Theoryfaux tricks with the dual faction masters in their other faction, but they aren't necessarily any better or worse. That's mostly because I'm finding more and more Guild has this solid core of models that are self sufficient enough to work with anything and there's not really any worthwhile keyword buffs that make certain models only work with certain masters (Hoffman being the big exception). Our dual faction masters also don't tend to pull in anything particularly special (Hoffman again, being the big exception). Ultimately though, it comes down to the fact you only have 50 SS to work with, so while McCabe might be loaded with cute tricks he can do with Dawn Serpents and Sensei Yu and the Kamatachi and such; Luna and the Hounds are just good and define him in either faction. He might have more options in 10T, but he has enough BEST options in Guild that he's just as good overall. McMourning is an odd one, as he's easily the game's most dual dual faction master (at the very least, he has the most strict barrier). He has more synergy in Resser but he NEEDS more synergy in Resser. In Guild he can fall back on that solid, self sufficient core and get much more use out of his personal work. The unique buff he gets is actually extremely relevant too. Plus, Nurses. Then there's Lucius, who's... well Lucius. Is he more suited to Neverborn? Maybe. Does Neverborn seem to care? Not really. He's fighting for last place in either faction, so I'm not feeling particularly neglected there. At least he lets us play with some fun tricky bits like Dopplegangers without having to get TOO filthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underworld king Posted April 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Sounds like Mccabe is really a great buffmaster :-) Maybe I should look more closely at him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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