Dear Wyrd

[CrazyCanuck]

Dear Wyrd,

I am writing this message here because I think I am in the correct space for it. I have up until this point very much enjoyed your game and have been doing all I can to get people into the game in my area.... That was up until today when I decided to start putting together my insidious madness models. I was unaware that you were indeed trying too drive your customers actually insane. This model set is by far the worst set I have ever encountered from your company the instructions are garbage connecting the two body parts alone is actually pushing me closer and closer to a stroke. And I suffered through the ridiculous ass tiny single hand piece you forced us to tetris on the female guild guard in the lucius set. But back to what ever level of hell you pulled the madness models from I need an old priest and a young priest to exorcise this monster from my hobby table. I know this may seem like a haha funny message but me writing this way is actually keeping me from adding all the swear words I want to call your company designers. This model set has actually irked me so much I have packed away my Malifaux models and stuffed them in my closet until the rage fueled desire to throw them all in the over and melt them and move to x-wing has subsided.... I am also not the first person I know of that have despised this F'ing model set I just thought the others I spoke with were stretching the truth... Well they were not in fact there were undercutting the pure rage of this set..... I just thought I would share my feedback a little... I am currently regretting my life choices that have lead me to this point....

 

Sincerely,

A rage filled customer who may or may not be posting a youtube video of a neverborn cook off........

[tomjoad]

I assembled these without instructions and without issue. Honestly, I loved assembling them; it was fun. This is a good kit.

[Mewens]

I'm amazed you were able to assemble these without instructions, ha ha ha. I had to pore over the online instructions for a while and tinker with the pieces; I still have a leftover tentacle that may or may not be an optional blob. (It doesn't seem like it goes any place in specific, at least.)

I'm happy with the kit, though. The cursing was worth it: They look much, much nicer than any comparable formless chaos creature that I'm aware of. (I've got some GW metal Flamers of Tzeentch, Beasts of Nurgle and assorted other daemony Chaos bits lying about, and I just don't think they're in the same league.)

But as for OP: I don't think anyone would judge you if you got one of the local blokes at the FLGS (assuming you've got one) to put these together for you. Also, remember that standard Wyrd modeling rules apply: All the bits in one part of the sprue go to one Insidious Madness. Only one of the IMs seems to have an optional swap-out (it's the one with the vomit hand on its right, if I remember correctly), so you'll use all the bits in two of the figs. One final tip: For the IM holding open its mouth with three hands, the torso can be confusing; it looks like it's upside-down, and the main body doesn't have a strong sense of "up". Once you've conquered that part of the fig, the only really confusing parts are which tentacles go where. (Test all the connections; they're all slightly different. I don't think anyone's going to throw a riot if one of the tentacles is in the wrong place; they're all pretty similar, and That's What Green Stuff is For (tm).)

[dropdeadcriminal]

Piece wise, Hamelin was the worst, but the instructions for it were actually excellent.  http://www.wyrd-games.net/plastic-build-instructions/2015/8/10/the-plague-cometh?rq=ham
On the other side. The entire The Thunder box set has no instructions on line, the pieces of each model are mingled among each other (not separated like in most box sets), and the only inkling you have about which part goes to which figure is a tiny, nearly illegible letter, somewhere in the vague vicinity of most of the pieces (some don't even get the letter). 

[Omenbringer]

53 minutes ago, Mewens said:

Also, remember that standard Wyrd modeling rules apply: All the bits in one part of the sprue go to one Insidious Madness.

At least this has improved from the early plastic kits.

41 minutes ago, dropdeadcriminal said:

The entire The Thunder box set has no instructions on line, the pieces of each model are mingled among each other (not separated like in most box sets), and the only inkling you have about which part goes to which figure is a tiny, nearly illegible letter, somewhere in the vague vicinity of most of the pieces (some don't even get the letter). 

Likely one of the worst examples of the Plastics in terms of sprue layout and intuitive assembly. Hoping that at some point the "Old" Plastics (from 1st edition that only received a new "dark" M2e Box) will receive building instructions since it has come up a number of times (beginning with the 1st edition "Light" sets years ago).

1 hour ago, CrazyCanuck said:

I have up until this point very much enjoyed your game and have been doing all I can to get people into the game in my area.... That was up until today when I decided to start putting together my insidious madness models. I was unaware that you were indeed trying too drive your customers actually insane. This model set is by far the worst set I have ever encountered from your company the instructions are garbage connecting the two body parts alone is actually pushing me closer and closer to a stroke.

I have felt your frustration and consider myself a fairly experienced and astute modeler. It is unfortunate that one of the barriers to entry for Malifaux is now the model assembly. A lot of that is attributable to the peculiarities of manufacturing plastic models, some is attributable to poor choice of cut location. Additionally, some of it might also stem from the companies origins as a painting competition organizer, where detail was all important and the modelers significantly more experienced than the average. In either case, it can be said that for the most part at least, it is only a few models that need to be assembled to play (unless of course you have massive collections).

These though are some of the small handful of Malifaux models where I prefer the look of the plastics to the metal versions. Unfortunately that improvement comes at a price.

[zeeblee]

I ended up successfully using all the pieces, but there were definitely a lot of points where detective work was required. For me it was worth it, as they are now some of my favorite sculpts on my shelf.

[CrazyCanuck]

1 hour ago, tomjoad said:

I assembled these without instructions and without issue. Honestly, I loved assembling them; it was fun. This is a good kit.

I am sorry but I am calling you a liar.... I have used the instructions I honestly believe puzzles to get into the ninth level of hell are easier than these models.. I am sure they will look great if I ever attempt them again but they are the spawn of satan on a bad day..

[CrazyCanuck]

1 hour ago, Mewens said:

But as for OP: I don't think anyone would judge you if you got one of the local blokes at the FLGS (assuming you've got one) to put these together for you. Also, remember that standard Wyrd modeling rules apply: All the bits in one part of the sprue go to one Insidious Madness. 

I don't think the amount of beer I will have to trade for my FGS guy to do this is affordable for me I don't own a brewery.....

[CrazyCanuck]

7 minutes ago, zeeblee said:

I ended up successfully using all the pieces, but there were definitely a lot of points where detective work was required. For me it was worth it, as they are now some of my favorite sculpts on my shelf.

Oh I do have full faith if they look great once together.... Just havent got there yet

[Mewens]

And I'm guessing no vineyard, either?

[CrazyCanuck]

Just now, Mewens said:

And I'm guessing no vineyard, either?

Afraid not my friend.... I may look into moonshining to pay my debts

[tomjoad]

25 minutes ago, CrazyCanuck said:

I am sorry but I am calling you a liar.... I have used the instructions I honestly believe puzzles to get into the ninth level of hell are easier than these models.. I am sure they will look great if I ever attempt them again but they are the spawn of satan on a bad day..

Well, good for you I guess? It's just a puzzle and I'm amazed at the amount of whinging people do about these minis. The tiny tiny pieces are pretty awful (Yan Lo's beard, etc), but the assembly of most models is really no big deal.

[LordZombie]

Few points from me:

1st: I am amazed at the lack of braggers here. Normally, it a beating of people talking how easy a model is and how others need to "suck it up and get better".

2nd: One thing to keep in mind, and this really helped me with putting together the Ten Thunder Archers (I mean really, the head is covered by a hat and shades on all sides, why model hair on the freaking head?), is to keep thinking that you only need to do it once. 

3rd: Wyrd has truly set up a barrier for a new gamers to the hobby and game. One of my new players in my community will not buy any more models as he can not put them together, and this is just because of the Lilith box set. Even the two player starter follows this "standard". Models with unnecessary joints (do the feet really need to be a separate piece? is the undercut and detail really needed?), tiny contact points for basing (because no one games with these models, right?) and models which don't fit the base ( I am sure there is a program to size models to scale with the base, not everyone wants to cork up their bases.)  But now, it seems Wyrd has taken it as a badge of honor, that "niche" that will set them apart from other games. 

[RobertSirc]

at my old LGS there are a few good painters. I just have them do it for me for a few bucks, problem solved. I did the IM box set year they sucked putting them together but at the end of the day they are IM's there is no wrong way of putting them together.

[dropdeadcriminal]

I was thinking of this thread yesterday as I was attaching pieces of the University of Transmortis Box Set with a pair of tweezers. 

And on a related note, I was plucking some foam trays to put models in and got to Misaki. Because of the pose it would have taken up more space than two 50mm base models. My solution ... just to never play Misaki when I am not at home, she can sit on the damn shelf by herself. Oh, and I had to glue her foot back down because there is so little contact space. 

[Chumbalaya]

I don't consider myself a great hobby expert, but I really don't have much issue with Wyrd models.  Abuela being the exception, of course.

[Sordid Strumpet]

 

Yes, some Wyrd models are a bit frustrating. No, I don't think it's a huge issue, the quality more than makes up for it. I have wanted to yell out in frustration once or twice when stuff didn't do what I wanted it to do, but that's because I was impatient and wanted to glue everything on at once rather than wait for what I'd built to dry and then keep working on it. It's a hobby for adults. Adults don't work themselves into a frothing rage over a few plastic man dollies.

Here are some tips that will - I promise you - enable anyone with normal motor skills to stick all models together with minimal frustration:

-Score the surfaces you glue together. By that I mean carve shallow criss-crosses into the surfaces that will be in contact. It will hold together more easily and the glue sets faster.

-Use super glue. Plastic glue takes too long to set, and in combination with scoring, super glue holds the model together so strongly, it will break in other places before the bond breaks.

-be patient. Put one arm on and a leg, and leave it skmewhere stable for an hour. Work on another model, then come back to the first one.

[tmod]

15 hours ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

 

Yes, some Wyrd models are a bit frustrating. No, I don't think it's a huge issue, the quality more than makes up for it. I have wanted to yell out in frustration once or twice when stuff didn't do what I wanted it to do, but that's because I was impatient and wanted to glue everything on at once rather than wait for what I'd built to dry and then keep working on it. It's a hobby for adults. Adults don't work themselves into a frothing rage over a few plastic man dollies.

Here are some tips that will - I promise you - enable anyone with normal motor skills to stick all models together with minimal frustration:

-Score the surfaces you glue together. By that I mean carve shallow criss-crosses into the surfaces that will be in contact. It will hold together more easily and the glue sets faster.

-Use super glue. Plastic glue takes too long to set, and in combination with scoring, super glue holds the model together so strongly, it will break in other places before the bond breaks.

-be patient. Put one arm on and a leg, and leave it skmewhere stable for an hour. Work on another model, then come back to the first one.

If using superglue, scoring is a good tip. However I would never suggest anyone struggling with plastic should try superglue. Superglue is much harder to work with, especially when filling gaps later on. What I would advise is using a very thin (as in more liquid) plastic cement, preferably using a brush... Tamiya makes an extra thin cement that id awesome to work with...

[Sordid Strumpet]

3 hours ago, tmod said:

If using superglue, scoring is a good tip. However I would never suggest anyone struggling with plastic should try superglue. Superglue is much harder to work with, especially when filling gaps later on. What I would advise is using a very thin (as in more liquid) plastic cement, preferably using a brush... Tamiya makes an extra thin cement that id awesome to work with...

I use gel super glue. That's perfect - you need less, it cures fast and it only goes where you want it to.

[keroro623]

I do have to agree with the original poster. with few exceptions the model assembly is a nightmare and unintuitive. Every time I demo and try to talk people into the game I have to warn them about this and have lost a few people. I understand this is actually a hard thing to quality control for a number of reasons but it is a glaring problem in an otherwise great game.

[Trample]

I've had a few models that have been problematic for me. When they are I will usually just put them into a plastic bag and set them aside and move on to something else. Every time I've done that and come back to them it has been quite a bit easier. I do like the assembly process though. It's a bit cathartic I suppose. There are time where there are just a few too many pieces and a few too small pieces. The one that amazed me was the war rabbit. One of the gremlins on the rabbit had two separate ears that you had to glue onto his head! I still don't know if they're glued on right side up! 

[Omenbringer]

3 minutes ago, Trample said:

There are time where there are just a few too many pieces and a few too small pieces. The one that amazed me was the war rabbit. One of the gremlins on the rabbit had two separate ears that you had to glue onto his head! I still don't know if they're glued on right side up! 

Gremlins are pretty notorious for having both numerous and small parts, especially in the head region. Amazing how many parts a one inch model can have. I would rather have models that are functional for play than models that are beautiful on a shelf. Many of the new "dynamic" poses are not just a nightmare to put together but also a nightmare to actually transport or play with. Single points of connection that are also itty-bitty are becoming increasingly common.

[Sordid Strumpet]

I think it's a matter of priority and what Wyrd syands for. Currently they make superb quality models for a fantastic game. But the models are a little fiddly. In exchange for the fiddly-ness, we basically get the highest quality, most characterful models on the market.

Sure, assembly is a barrier to entry. You could argue the fact that there are basically 49 unique masters with unique play styles is also a barrier to entry because there is so much to learn. But if you eliminate all perceived barriers to entry, you end up with a washed out, bland and slightly vanilla flavoured bucket of tragically boring wallpaper paste.

If, in an effort to get all possible customers, you average what everyone wants and then make that, you end up with a thing nobody minds, but also something nobody loves or is passionate about. Like what's happening to major video game franchises, and movies that are essentially all exactly the same as they appeal to the mass market.

I'll take the good with the slightly less good, thank you very much and continue to buy confidently in the knowledge Wyrd makes something they themselves would buy.

[Wulfen]

On 2/13/2016 at 1:47 PM, tmod said:

If using superglue, scoring is a good tip. However I would never suggest anyone struggling with plastic should try superglue. Superglue is much harder to work with, especially when filling gaps later on. What I would advise is using a very thin (as in more liquid) plastic cement, preferably using a brush... Tamiya makes an extra thin cement that id awesome to work with...

I stand by Loctite Gel Control superglue. Works fantastically on both plastic and metal models. To each their own, of course. 

[tmod]

Not saying it doesn't work, cyanoacrylate (super glue) can glue most materials, but by not using plastic cement you loose out on one of the main advantages of plastic. But it's harder and more brittle than styrene plastic, meaning it's harder to file without damaging the plastic, it doesn't reduce/remove gaps without filling the gap with actual glue (see the filing issue above), you have no wiggle room as the glue sets quickly, it has a very low shear strength, and it creates an inflexible joint with a different strength compared to the plastic around it. Usually the joint will be weaker that the plastic, but sometimes it will stronger. In all cases it will flex much less, which creates additional stress on the joint and the plastic immediately next to the joint, in all cases leading to a weaker connection...

Again, if you're used to ca from metal minis and are happy to work around the disadvantages, super glue makes perfectly fine minis. The biggest advantage of ca is that it glues pretty much anything, so if you want to use resin/metal bits/bases you need superglue in your case anyway...