Underutilizing Zoraida

[Ludvig]

Hm was it ruled what happens if the action has a damage profile but the damage is zero? So does 0/0/1 become 2/2/3 or do the +2 not apply because the damage dealt by the attack is not really damage and the new virtual dmg track is 0/0/3 ?

Yes, if you have a damage profile with a 0 value you should be able to get it to 2/2/5. 

It's just that you can't add +2 to - damage. How I would rationalise it: 0+2 = 2. Potato +2 = does not compute since one value is not between 0-99. 

[Mewens]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. It's been a slow couple of weeks, play-wise, due to holiday season in the U.S., but I got in a game a couple of days ago with Zoraida.

It was short – I slingshotted Nekima into the foe's lines on turn 1, and got a string of lucky hits, including a Red Joker damage flip against Kaeris – so the game was over before I could make use of my second-wave gunline, but there were still a few things I was able to take away re: Zoraida.

It was my first game with Mr. Graves, and my first using Doppelganger with Zoraida. That trio offers an incredibly flexible framework: Strong mobility and efficient offensive capability. Seeing Zoraida's Obey as a huge force multiplier, rather than a trick or a gotcha, really changed my perception of her. (Quick note: My understanding is that, while Graves can only Show a buddy the Door once per turn, the Doppelganger can copy the action and Show another buddy the Door that turn. I understand that Obey can't be used to cheat in extra Shows. If I'm incorrect, please disabuse me.)

My major gunline piece was Widow Weaver, due to the possibility of drawing several extra cards per turn when she and the Doppelganger got within range. (With everyone in position, you can fire Exhale Terror up to 8 times a turn!) The -Wp debuff didn't hurt any, either: A bonus to both Exhale Terror and Obey.

This was the list; my schemes+strats were Reckoning, Assassinate and Power Ritual.
Zoraida
-Hex Bag
-Crystal Ball
-Aether Connection

Nekima
-Fears Given Form

Mr. Graves
Widow Weaver
Doppelganger
Silurid

In any case, thanks again for the tips, guys. I'm looking forward to utilizing some of the other ones – especially the Nurse / Iggy shenanigans – when I next play.

[lusciousmccabe]

Yep, Doppel-Door is legit. Think it's even specifically in the FAQ as an example.

[Adran]

Hm was it ruled what happens if the action has a damage profile but the damage is zero? So does 0/0/1 become 2/2/3 or do the +2 not apply because the damage dealt by the attack is not really damage and the new virtual dmg track is 0/0/3 ?

Yes, if you have a damage profile with a 0 value you should be able to get it to 2/2/5. 

It's just that you can't add +2 to - damage. How I would rationalise it: 0+2 = 2. Potato +2 = does not compute since one value is not between 0-99. 

From the FAQ

7) Q: Can we get some more details on how the Nurse’s Hallucinogens Condition works?
A: Sure! The Hallucinogens Condition causes any Ml Actions which deal damage to deal +2 damage. So if the Action
causes no damage, it does not benefit from the +2. However, if the model creates multiple damage sources with a single
Attack (such as with Hammerfall) each damage source would also benefit from the +2 damage as it is a part of the Action.

 

So if you do 0/0/1 and are targetted by Hallucinogens, you in effect do 0/0/3. 

[Shadowfane]

Hm was it ruled what happens if the action has a damage profile but the damage is zero? So does 0/0/1 become 2/2/3 or do the +2 not apply because the damage dealt by the attack is not really damage and the new virtual dmg track is 0/0/3 ?

Yes, if you have a damage profile with a 0 value you should be able to get it to 2/2/5. 

It's just that you can't add +2 to - damage. How I would rationalise it: 0+2 = 2. Potato +2 = does not compute since one value is not between 0-99. 

From the FAQ

7) Q: Can we get some more details on how the Nurse’s Hallucinogens Condition works?
A: Sure! The Hallucinogens Condition causes any Ml Actions which deal damage to deal +2 damage. So if the Action
causes no damage, it does not benefit from the +2. However, if the model creates multiple damage sources with a single
Attack (such as with Hammerfall) each damage source would also benefit from the +2 damage as it is a part of the Action.

 

So if you do 0/0/1 and are targetted by Hallucinogens, you in effect do 0/0/3. 

But that isn't a profile that does no damage - it specifically has a damage spread, in fact.

An attack that does NO damage would, for example, be the Monk of Low Rivers attack, which is an MI attack that removes a condition, but does not have a damage track.

[Adran]

But if the action does no damage then it doesn't get the +2. It has to deal some damage before it gets to add the +2. If you soulstone prevent damage to 0 before it is applied, then it also won't apply.

 

[Shadowfane]

Nah, thats bollocks.

It's not an "after damaging" trigger. It's "This models MI actions deal +2 damage".  All that FAQ clarified was that a MI action that deals damage (ie, has a damage track, or deals a set amount of damage)  gets +2 damage, and MI actions that couldn't deal damage didn't.

[Adran]

An attack that deals damage, and an action with a damage track are not the same. The FAQ says that 0+2 is not 2,  it is still 0.

 

[Shadowfane]

Actually, having thought about a bit, I've changed my mind - it's the same way that if you take 1 poison damage in range of Sebastian, you take +2 more, but if you SS to prevent the first poison damage, you don't take the other two.

My apologies, Adran, it appears I was arguing for no reason whatsoever

[Ludvig]

But if the action does no damage then it doesn't get the +2. It has to deal some damage before it gets to add the +2. If you soulstone prevent damage to 0 before it is applied, then it also won't apply.

 

You are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct  I think the intention was to add it to the damage track but exclude attacks that normally don't damage at all like shadowfane stated but I have no idea if that actually was the intention.

[MagicGis]

So basically even after the FAQ it is kinda unclear.  

Would this also mean in a vik crew where the skill to increase sister Mi dmg and I get charged by blood I only have to prevent 3 to stop her 5 min dmg?

That seems kinda ridicoulus good against a crew that depends so hard on this synergie skills to do their glas cannon dmg.

[Adran]

I can't speak for the intention of these rules but the 1st edition used to have 0 damage, and no damage as 2 different things, you can probably still find the huge number of rules questions about it. So now No damage and 0 damage are the same, and things that require models to deal damage need it to be a number above 0.

It does seem pretty clear to me. 

On the Viks, I can't remember how it is stated. In its worse case,  its pretty hard to prevent 3 damage that ignores everything, so you will generally get that bonus damage. .