Walking Fire and Focus, Actions Triggering Actions

[BigHammer]

Hi all,

I'd like to know whether actions that are gained from the trigger of an action (specifically in this case the Samurai's Shoulder Gatling attack trigger "Walking Fire") still benefit from any focus that the original action used.

References:

Walking Fire trigger: After damaging, immediately take this action against a different target.

Current Malifaux FAQ doc: 19) Q: Does the damage flip from the Slug Trigger count as part of the original Action? Is it modified by
things like the Accuracy Modifier and Focus?
A: Yes, Triggers are a part of the Action which caused them and the damage flip from Slug would retain any modifiers to
the original flip including Accuracy, Focus, cover, etc.

Also from the FAQ: 1) Q: If a model has the Focus +1 Condition, can it remove the Condition at the start of a Charge Action in
order to gain the bonus to all Attacks generated by the Charge Action?
A: No. It would have to remove the Condition at the start of a single Attack which was generated by Charge and it would
only gain the bonus for the duration of that Attack. Other Actions which generate Attack Actions (such as Flurry, Rapid
Fire, etc) function in the same way in regards to Focus.

So I know it's not okay to use Focus on a Charge action (or Flurry, etc.) to gain focus for each action it generates. Actions generated by actions in this way are clearly not intended to benefit from a single instance of the condition.

On the other hand, these are not actions that are generated by triggers, and the wording on the Slug trigger FAQ entry leads me to believe that triggers are still part of the original action, and would still benefit from focus, except that in Slug's case it isn't specifically talking about actions.

In short, I can't figure this one out myself; I'm leaning toward not granting the focus to the generated attack action (because triggers like Walking Fire exist, basically, and could cause a lot of trouble with abuse of such a thing), but I'd like to hear other thoughts on it (and be pointed in the direction of any relevant rules, etc. that I have missed).

Ta.

Edited September 21, 2015 by BigHammer
Fixed c/p text colour

[solkan]

The fact that the actions are generated by one part of the action (the main body of the text) or another part of the action (the triggers) doesn't make a difference.  Likewise, it doesn't matter whether a damage flip is in the trigger text or the main body of the text for the ability, that damage flip is part of the action.  That's the point of the quoted FAQ entries.

So it doesn't matter whether the actions are generated by the main body of Flurry or whether the action is generated by the trigger, all of the actions that an action generates resolve separately and Focus doesn't carry over between them.

Also, note that Focused is very specific that it only applies to one duel and one damage flip:

(1) Focus: The model gains the following Condition until the end of the Turn: "Focused +1: This model may remove this Condition when declaring an Action to gain a number of + to the Action's duel and damage flip equal to the value of the Focused Condition removed."

If you're being granted another action by some text in the ability, the duel and damage flip for that other action aren't duel and damage flip specified in Focused.

 

[santaclaws01]

I would say no. Slug just has you perform a flip, which would make it still part of whatever action causes it. Walking Fire has you perform a completely separate action.

[Ludvig]

I believe that since it is an entirely new attack action it has a separate flip affecting it. That makes the old accuracy difference (or whatever it's called) redundant and you use the new one instead (including expended focus). I really can't back this up with the rules, I think this was more or less concensus on an old discussion but I'm not 100% on that. Slug is just an extra damage flip and so belongs to the same attack in a much more pronounced way. The extra attacks are not "this attacks damage flip" basically and focus doesn't last the entire action but just gives the attack and dmg flip of the action the . The old action isn't resolved until free attacks are done but the extra attack is not the same action.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Ludvig

[BigHammer]

Thanks, Solkan, it was that specificity that was leading me to the same conclusion personally, but I was getting myself confused and figured it would be easier to ask here than debate it back and forth with myself for days.