Prospective Player Seeking Advice

[LevROLL]

Very recently I've grown an interest in picking up Malifaux. Initially I had considered Ten Thunders as a starting faction but after searching through several places some concerns were raised and I decided to give a second look to what every faction had to offer. I had originally only given Gremlins a cursory glance and had kind of written them off as a comic relief faction and maybe that's still true. However, Gremlins was also the only faction I found where I had a genuine interest in every Master. So here I am.

 

Now for the actual advice part. I have something of a tight budget and I'd like to try to get the most bang for my buck out of the fewest and, preferably, cheapest purchases. I was considering starting with something like: the Ophelia box, the Som'er Teeth Jones box, a Slop Hauler and either or both of an additional box of Bayou Gremlins and Francois. And so I'd like some advice from all of you here on whether all of these would be a prudent purchase or if there's something integral that I may be missing or even perhaps where I should expand from there.

 

[Law Dog]

I'm new, but from experience with this game and other games I think that the thing you need to consider is what faction do you think is the coolest and do you find yourself rooting for when you imagine match ups on the tabletop? If you like Ten Thunders, go with TT. If you like Guild, go Guild. Each faction is workable, and there are very few bad elements in this game. There are some bad match ups, and there are lists you can make where they might not make a whole lot of sense, but on the whole this game is very forgiving so long as you have thought out your force.

 

But for suggestions for a starting force, if you like Ophelia she's amazing and really workable.  Ulix will be coming out soon, and he brings the hogs to the yard! 

[Vidd]

Francois comes in Ophelia's box but apart from that, your starting list looks pretty ideal.

Somer's box gives you the Minions and Lenny, Ophelia's box gives you the Enforcers and Francois and yes, you want the Slop Haulers.

 

I'd be tempted to say get Gracie over another box of Bayou Gremlins but maybe you'll have fun with summon factory.

[Dirial]

Welcome to Malifaux!

 

If you want to play Somer as a summoner, the box of Bayous is essential. If not (or not at once), the starter boxes, Slop Haulers, and either Gracie or Merris makes a pretty solid, competitive set.

[Brewmaster]

Glad to see you're considering Gremlins

Yes Gremlins are comic relief, but one of the cool things about how this game plays is that even the "joke" factions are still able to win.

For the question: S'omer, Ophelia, Slop should cover a LOT of what you need. I'd say get a box of piglets so you can see how the gremlin/ pig synergy plays.

[Omenbringer]

Pretty much agree with Brewmaster's recommendation, though would strongly recommend another Bayou Gremlin box to really utilize many of the options those purchases will present. So it will look like this;

 

The Bayou Boss

The Kin

Slop Haulers

Bayou Gremlins

Piglets

 

About the only thing missing would be a Pigapult but you can pick that up once you have really learned the summon factories nuances.

 

This will allow a lot of flexibility in list building and play style. Where I disagree with Brewmaster, is that the Gremlin's are the "Joke" faction. Aside from a few funny named abilities and such, I have never really seen them as a joke. They are very competitive and have been from the start of the game, especially once you learn the nuances.

[Stranglelove]

I would say Wong is the most humorous/non-intimidating Gremlin Master, and I have still won with him.

 

If you want to think about it in terms of maximum playability, Som'er is probably the most versatile, especially with Bayou Gremlins. I'd take him for most strategies (The random encounter each crew is fighting over). Ophelia's Kin are killing machines but also pretty fragile. I'd take her for most strats, but maybe not Turf War.

 

The Brewmaster is a lot to get your head around for a first-time player, but is very rewarding for a keen player.

 

Great faction choice!

[LevROLL]

Thank you all for the advice so far. It's nice to know that the little lurking I've done so far has at least lead me to passable first choices. I'll probably be trying to pick up the two boxes, Slop Hauler and extra Gremlins sometime in the next couple of months to try get a feel for the faction and then see if I can figure out the way to go from there. Or just come back here and ask all you nice people for some opinions again.

 

And, actually, I felt a little bad about the "comic relief faction" part. Whether true or not I'm grateful I was able to look past that and find a host of models I was actually interested in. What originally led me to the Gremlins was actually the pullmyfinger article on Ulix. Reading it felt a little ridiculous; it made me laugh but, at the same time, it really made me interested in looking up what the rest of the Gremlins had to offer. Som'er had me skeptical at first but I figured he and Ophelia might be a nice place to start. Plus, Zoraida, Wong, Mah and The Brewmaster all also seem very interesting so I figured that no matter how I expand I'm not likely to be disappointed by Gremlins.

 

edit: Piglets, too. I'll probably be picking up Piglets, too. I mean, how can I say no to that?

[Omenbringer]

Just to reinforce the recommendation for piglets. Lenny can summon them via his upgrade, however there aren't any in the boxes you are looking at. Piglets are also very useful for increasing the mobility of the faction. Go to the 1st ed section of Pullmyfinger under Som'er to see the descriptions of the Truffle Shuffle and Pig Ladders. For the most part these are exactly the same in the new edition. The Pig Boomerang is a bit different due to the loss of Soeey access for Skeeters and Never Happen on the Hog Whisperers, but otherwise it explains some other concepts that can assist in piloting the piglets.

[Vidd]

And, actually, I felt a little bad about the "comic relief faction" part. Whether true or not I'm grateful I was able to look past that and find a host of models I was actually interested in. What originally led me to the Gremlins was actually the pullmyfinger article on Ulix. Reading it felt a little ridiculous; it made me laugh but, at the same time, it really made me interested in looking up what the rest of the Gremlins had to offer.

They're definitely the sillier faction. What other faction would have a catapult that flings Gremlins and fires pig as ammo?

 

The element of fun is what makes it my favourite faction and it's probably lets them be so diverse while maintaining coherency.

[LevROLL]

Thanks again for the feedback everyone. To go along with theses purchases, before I make them, does anyone have any more advice particulars on how to play the models? I've seen a lot of mention of Som'er but not really anything about Ophelia. Are Ophelia and her Kin simply really straightforward or are they perhaps not that popular? I've seen a lot of people advocate Francois but little mention of Pere, Rami, Raphael and even Ophelia herself. Perhaps I wasn't looking the right places, though. 

 

Of course, further advice about Som'er would be appreciated as well. Or perhaps where I could further expand towards later. And, again, I want to thank all of you for comments so far. I think I'll really enjoy Gremlins.

[Omenbringer]

Biggest advice for Som'er I would give is dont try and bring all the "goodies" with him. To much support and you diminish his effectiveness over the other Gremlin Masters, who can usually do it more efficiently. He really benefits more from having staple models, though you can run him with a more elite build or even in the super solo mode to break things up. I personally lean heavily on the summon factory to do my work, though, so if you are looking for the more elite or super solo builds I will defer to others for advice on those.

 

If you have any questions on the Truffle Shuffle, Pig Ladders, or Pig Boomerang, I am more than willing to clarify what is on the 1st Ed side of Pullmyfinger.

[admiralvorkraft]

I would say Wong is the most humorous/non-intimidating Gremlin Master, and I have still won with him.

 

If you want to think about it in terms of maximum playability, Som'er is probably the most versatile, especially with Bayou Gremlins. I'd take him for most strategies (The random encounter each crew is fighting over). Ophelia's Kin are killing machines but also pretty fragile. I'd take her for most strats, but maybe not Turf War.

 

The Brewmaster is a lot to get your head around for a first-time player, but is very rewarding for a keen player.

 

Great faction choice!

Um, we're clearly reading different cards for Wong. He brings one of the best buffs in the game (Glowy), deals massive damage, scores Plant Explosives or even Spring the Trap with ease, blows up scheme markers, and can be damn near impossible to pin down. Plus he has fantastic synergy with his Lightning Bugs since he can tag them with blasts and get extra AP out of them.

But then all of the Gremlin masters are stupid good so maybe we've got different standards

[CannibalBob]

Thanks again for the feedback everyone. To go along with theses purchases, before I make them, does anyone have any more advice particulars on how to play the models? I've seen a lot of mention of Som'er but not really anything about Ophelia. Are Ophelia and her Kin simply really straightforward or are they perhaps not that popular? I've seen a lot of people advocate Francois but little mention of Pere, Rami, Raphael and even Ophelia herself. Perhaps I wasn't looking the right places, though. 

 

Of course, further advice about Som'er would be appreciated as well. Or perhaps where I could further expand towards later. And, again, I want to thank all of you for comments so far. I think I'll really enjoy Gremlins.

 

Ophelia's crew really is about as point-and-click as you get in Malifaux.  The only master who is simpler that I can think of is Von Schill in the outcasts.  Now, I am not saying that Ophelia is bad in any way at all, but rather the opposite.  Ophelia and her crew are very very good.  They are one of the meanest crews in the games in terms of sheer raw damage output.  Just about anyone in the game will have a tough time going into a straight-up fight with the Lacroix gang.  While there are some tricks for the models in her crew, on the whole they are not terribly subtle.  One of the nice things about Ophelia is that she also gets a fair bit of mileage from the stuff from Somer's box.  Lenny fits right in with her crew, and Bayou gremlins are excellent all-round minions.

 

For Som'er I recommend you start by checking out the information on how to run him as a summoner and bayou boss.  That strategy focuses heavily on Bayou gremlins and no other master can make them as useful as Som'er can - and he can summon them as well.  However, this style of play will often make use of more than the 4 bayou gremlin that come in his box, so you will want a second box.  Other than a second box of Bayou Gremlins you will probably not need to get an extra box of any other minion and you can make do with a single box or the ones that come in the box with a master.

[LevROLL]

Biggest advice for Som'er I would give is dont try and bring all the "goodies" with him. To much support and you diminish his effectiveness over the other Gremlin Masters, who can usually do it more efficiently. He really benefits more from having staple models, though you can run him with a more elite build or even in the super solo mode to break things up. I personally lean heavily on the summon factory to do my work, though, so if you are looking for the more elite or super solo builds I will defer to others for advice on those.

 

If you have any questions on the Truffle Shuffle, Pig Ladders, or Pig Boomerang, I am more than willing to clarify what is on the 1st Ed side of Pullmyfinger.

Thanks for the tips and I think I get the gist of those strategies. Having never played the game, however, I have no doubt that some of the finer details of they work, why they could be advantageous and other such things may have likely gone over my head. So I probably get less of it than I think.

 

Ophelia's crew really is about as point-and-click as you get in Malifaux.  The only master who is simpler that I can think of is Von Schill in the outcasts.  Now, I am not saying that Ophelia is bad in any way at all, but rather the opposite.  Ophelia and her crew are very very good.  They are one of the meanest crews in the games in terms of sheer raw damage output.  Just about anyone in the game will have a tough time going into a straight-up fight with the Lacroix gang.  While there are some tricks for the models in her crew, on the whole they are not terribly subtle.  One of the nice things about Ophelia is that she also gets a fair bit of mileage from the stuff from Somer's box.  Lenny fits right in with her crew, and Bayou gremlins are excellent all-round minions.

 

For Som'er I recommend you start by checking out the information on how to run him as a summoner and bayou boss.  That strategy focuses heavily on Bayou gremlins and no other master can make them as useful as Som'er can - and he can summon them as well.  However, this style of play will often make use of more than the 4 bayou gremlin that come in his box, so you will want a second box.  Other than a second box of Bayou Gremlins you will probably not need to get an extra box of any other minion and you can make do with a single box or the ones that come in the box with a master.

Thank you for the description of Ophelia and other advice. I'm definitely seeing patterns in what is suggested for Som'er and it's nice to know that I likely won't need many repeat purchases. I've played games before where that is simply not the case and it can range from annoying to infuriating thinking that I need to spend money on the same thing over and over again to get anywhere whether competitively or casually.

 

Another question, if anyone would feel so kind as to answer. Along with myself, a few friends have gained interest in starting Malifaux. So far, one really likes the Ortegas and two others seem to both be tending toward Lady Justice while another likes the Arcanists; or at least he likes what he sees with Toni Ironsides and Mei Feng. We've all got prior experiences with miniature games before but not a smaller-scale skirmish game like Malifaux. I guess what I'm trying to ask is if all these things at least CAN end up balanced or if the choices a few of us make can ruin the game for the others. Any input would be appreciated.

[Dogmantra]

For your last point - malifaux is pretty well balanced and while there are some models/masters who are a bit better, it's not gamebreaking, especially since weaker models often have situational use.

The only possible issue I'd point out is that the Kin and Ortegas are both pretty solid shooting crews and can be a bit op if you don't use enough terrain. There's a helpful thread in malifaux discussion called Terrain And You which should give you an idea of what is reasonable.

[Dirial]

[CannibalBob]

 

Another question, if anyone would feel so kind as to answer. Along with myself, a few friends have gained interest in starting Malifaux. So far, one really likes the Ortegas and two others seem to both be tending toward Lady Justice while another likes the Arcanists; or at least he likes what he sees with Toni Ironsides and Mei Feng. We've all got prior experiences with miniature games before but not a smaller-scale skirmish game like Malifaux. I guess what I'm trying to ask is if all these things at least CAN end up balanced or if the choices a few of us make can ruin the game for the others. Any input would be appreciated.

 

 

Dogmantra makes a good point about balance and terrain, but I think there is a bit more to be said about early play-group balance.

 

First off, I think Malifaux is in my opinion the most balanced miniature game on the market.  The game certain does have choices that are better than other equivalent options (Francois is usually considered one of these), but usually the disparity between those choices is not so great that you are hamstrung by picking the other options.  The game also has a lot of specialty and niche-role models.  In most miniature games those models are usually poor choices since you cannot guarantee that their specialty will be called for or useful in a game and so they get left on the shelf to collect dust.  Warmachine is a big offender in regards to this issue.  Malifaux does not suffer from this problem because you do not use pregenerated crew lists and instead you select your crew for the game only once you know what the objectives for the game are and what the terrain is.  This means that you will usually know when a specialist will be useful and so you can confidently choose them.  The result of this is that the pool of useful models is much larger in this game than many others.  On top of that the designers have done a superb job in making most models work well at some role or situation.

 

So on the whole I can confidently say that there really are no crew choices that are OP and cannot be dealt with.  But that said, there are some masters who do have bad possible match-ups against certain enemy crews and can end up fighting a very uphill battle.  That problem is usually dealt with by players having a couple of masters and so they generally do not need to commit a master to a situation where they will be heavily outclassed.  But for this to work the players each generally need more than one master each.  This is a game that is generally not meant for a player to continually play a particular set list, so players need to be aware of that.  You do not need to buy a huge amount of stuff, but you do generally need more options than you will use in a single game.  Thankfully the game is relatively inexpensive.

 

In addition, some masters are more complex and tougher to get the hang of than others.  This can often lead to an early impression of some masters being stronger than others simply due to the easier learning curves.  Perdita and Ophelia generally fit into this category as both crews are relatively straight-forward in regards to their abilities and both of them emphasize very strong shooting games.  New players often find these crews tougher to play against until they become more experienced with their crews and the game as a whole.

 

This game is also quite different from many other miniature games in that the emphasis is purely on the objectives as that is the only way to score victory points.  Most other games have a victory emphasis on combat and killing more of the enemy force and in Malifaux that is generally just a means to make achieving your own objectives simpler.  In some cases combat can be a trap that consumes resources you are better off using in other ways and can be a detriment (especially in the later turns of a game).  New players often take a while to learn this - especially if they come from a different game such as Warmachine or Warhammer 40k.  This can lead players to try to take a crew with less emphasis on combat, such as Colette, straight into the teeth of a crew that is heavily aimed towards fighting and that is usually not a winning proposition.  This in turn can often lead to frustration and a sense that the enemy crew is seriously overpowered.  So keep in mind that some crews are much more effective in the hands of beginners as others and that can lead to some skewed initial impressions.  But if people ride out those initial games and get more accustomed to the nuances of the game then they will often find the crews with higher learning curves also often end up having high rewards. 

[Omenbringer]

The only possible issue I'd point out is that the Kin and Ortegas are both pretty solid shooting crews and can be a bit op if you don't use enough terrain. There's a helpful thread in malifaux discussion called Terrain And You which should give you an idea of what is reasonable.

This can not be stressed strongly enough. To little terrain and the game quickly favors models with longer ranged actions. Also seem to recall that the recommended amount of terrain as published in the M2e big book and the mini rule book has changed since publication. Of course I can't find the thread mentioning this right now, so perhaps some one with better search skills will pull it up.

[CannibalBob]

A Som'er bayou gremlin summon factory crew is also another crew that can be absurdly strong with shooting.  If there is not enough terrain on the table then Som'ers crew will simply take the enemy off of the table through sheer volume of bullets.

[Omenbringer]

A Som'er bayou gremlin summon factory crew is also another crew that can be absurdly strong with shooting.  If there is not enough terrain on the table then Som'ers crew will simply take the enemy off of the table through sheer volume of bullets.

We call this the death of a thousand bee stings.

[LevROLL]

I appreciate all the additional input and I will make sure I relate it to my friends interested in Malifaux as well. I hope none of it turns them off too much from Malifaux but, hey, a few them weren't even interested until I began to slowly sink my claws into them.

 

I'm also somewhat glad that terrain is such a large part of this game. I play Warmachine as well and the thing I think I lament the most is the lack of terrain or at least useful terrain. A wall or two, a small forest or two, a hill or two, etc. It's uninspired and it can get annoyingly repetitive. And, more often than not, most of it can be ignored or otherwise most things are encouraged to gain abilities TO flat-out ignore terrain. I'd be glad to play a game that tends to get along better with terrain.

[CannibalBob]

 

I'm also somewhat glad that terrain is such a large part of this game. I play Warmachine as well and the thing I think I lament the most is the lack of terrain or at least useful terrain. A wall or two, a small forest or two, a hill or two, etc. It's uninspired and it can get annoyingly repetitive. And, more often than not, most of it can be ignored or otherwise most things are encouraged to gain abilities TO flat-out ignore terrain. I'd be glad to play a game that tends to get along better with terrain.

 

 

Malifaux is a lot like Infinity where you want a lot of terrain by default.  My personal opinion is that you want a lot and the terrain guideline is generally the minimum that you want.  The other cool thing is that Malifaux also works very well with interior spaces and 3-dimensions.  As you mentioned, Warmachine does not really function well with much terrain and it absolutely does not function with 3-dimensional terrain such as roof-tops, catwalks, walk-ways, or other raised areas.  A Malifaux board tends to get better with that sort of terrain and the rules do a good job of explaining how models and movement interacts with that sort of terrain.

[Omenbringer]

The other cool thing is that Malifaux also works very well with interior spaces and 3-dimensions.  As you mentioned, Warmachine does not really function well with much terrain and it absolutely does not function with 3-dimensional terrain such as roof-tops, catwalks, walk-ways, or other raised areas.  A Malifaux board tends to get better with that sort of terrain and the rules do a good job of explaining how models and movement interacts with that sort of terrain.

I disagree quite a bit with this statement. Malifaux's "3-dimensional" rules leave much to be desired and aren't very well defined. This has been stated by Justin to have been an intentional design concession, in an attempt to keep the game simple. If you plan on incorporating multiple elevations and interior spaces be prepared to "house rule" somethings.

[Dirial]

I disagree quite a bit with this statement. Malifaux's "3-dimensional" rules leave much to be desired and aren't very well defined. This has been stated by Justin to have been an intentional design concession, in an attempt to keep the game simple. If you plan on incorporating multiple elevations and interior spaces be prepared to "house rule" somethings.

 

Yeah, it works reasonably well with some elevation (like to walkways by plastcraft) but if you stack things or have multiple elevations, it gets muddy fast. Also, no jump rules.