Mr. Cooper's Dark Carnival - Homebrew Crew Brainstorm (part 1)

[G. Footman]

i can't vote on Lola's rank

[Phinn]

i can't vote on Lola's rank

If you have already voted, you have to press Delete My Vote and vote again.

[Kalkris]

If you have already voted, you have to press Delete My Vote and vote again.

That's the problem. I already did

 

Or, that might work too

[Phinn]

I am getting this message: "You must cast your vote in each question of the poll," even though i did.

[Kalkris]

I am getting this message: "You must cast your vote in each question of the poll," even though i did.

Okay, in that case I will be making Part 2 of this thread in 2 days and will be aiming to ask the question there.

 

EDIT: Oooooooor, I just made the poll multiple choice. That might skew the answers a bit if people vote for multiple things, though, so I want to make a point to ask people not to vote for more than one thing (for now).

[Kalkris]

Strange note made: Yesterday the thread said 41 people voted in the poll... Today it says 40. We are progressing at a negative pace! Let's upthrust the volume, people!

 

Is Hazy a worthwhile mechanic for this crew, fluffwise? Why or why not? Is it possible that the Haze is just a cloud of some less-addictive, more-numbing strain of Brilliance?

 

What do we want to do with Mr. Cooper, presently? Do we neeeeeed to tie in the Mummerettes into his personal mechanics, especially if the Flying Monkeys end up his Totem after all (as they are leading right now)?

 

Also, let's talk circus lingo. What kind of barker lingo might lend itself well to the names for abilities and actions of an evil circus crew?

 

~Lil Kalki

[Fetid Strumpet]

While I would never agree to play against these rules, it is an interesting effort an I wish you luck.

In an effort to provide some utility to you, if you are looking for circus and carnival inspiration, or naming ideas, or carney jargon to utilize, I recommend reading, or listening to Johnathon L. Howard's novel, "Johannes Cabal the Necromancer".

It concerns a necromancer who makes a bet with Satan in order to regain his soul, and who is required to run and utilize a traveling carnival in order to win his bet. It is a very good dark humorous book, and the Cabal Bros. Carnival of Wonders should provide a great deal of very appropriately thematic rules, names, and jargon for you.

[Kalkris]

While I would never agree to play against these rules, it is an interesting effort an I wish you luck.

In an effort to provide some utility to you, if you are looking for circus and carnival inspiration, or naming ideas, or carney jargon to utilize, I recommend reading, or listening to Johnathon L. Howard's novel, "Johannes Cabal the Necromancer".

It concerns a necromancer who makes a bet with Satan in order to regain his soul, and who is required to run and utilize a traveling carnival in order to win his bet. It is a very good dark humorous book, and the Cabal Bros. Carnival of Wonders should provide a great deal of very appropriately thematic rules, names, and jargon for you.

It's funny; when I saw you'd posted, I thought to myself, "Oh man, Fetid's going to be completely against this" but I was delightfully mistaken. Yeah, I am of the idea that the casual games involving Mr. Cooper in this ruleset instead of Colette's should be played with two knowing and mutually consenting players as well, as I respect that some people don't like the homebrew gameplay. I know that once actual playtesting comes around (regardless of how many participants want to get involved), I shall have the disclaimer that this is not a ruleset that is officially supported by Wyrd, and should be used only in the case where the opponent consents to it.

 

Thank you for your luck wishes and your helpful lead, Fetid! I'll have to read that novel sometime soon, it seems

 

With regards to a working schedule, once I've had my share of mechanical and fluffy inspiration, and enough community input (in the form of poll results and conversation), I will work on a first draft for playtest. Each session will be 2 weeks, to accomodate for the 2 factions worth of work. I want to have the custom ruleset be at a *tentative* completion level by Black Friday, since I suspect Mr. Cooper may see a second launch at that time (tentative because there may - and probably will - be errata issued for this *unofficial* release).

 

Side note for actual Wyrd devs (maybe Aaron or Justin can answer this if they see it soon): Is there a way to get "Unofficial" digital stat cards for this crew, in the same fashion as during the open betas? I'd like a template of sorts if possible, so that beta can go a bit more smoothly and in a more streamlined fashion lol - Of course, if it can't be done, it can't be done which is quite understandable. The cards would be marked with the date of latest Beta changes (or Final), and the word "Unofficial" or "Fanmade" instead of "Official" as Wyrd puts on theirs, so as to keep from confusing or misinterpreting the beta. I wonder if that's cool. I don't want to step on any toes re: Wyrd's IP.

 

~Lil Kalki

[Fetid Strumpet]

Well to be fair I am against it, but not to the effect I would ever try to stop someone from doing something they found fun, and were not trying to force on anyone else. As long as no one ever tries to guilt me into agreeing to play against this crew it doesn't matter to me, and if it is fun for those that are partaking then it is certainly a worthwhile effort. I wish you luck once again.

As a side note, if wyrd is ok with you Doing this, but won't provide the digital files, you might ask spiriling cadaver if his fan made cards he did for Tara's Death Marshall's might not fit the bill. I'm not sure how he made them, but if he created a document with multiple layers and didn't just adjust the image tey might work for you.

[Manic Mouse]

Well to be fair I am against it, but not to the effect I would ever try to stop someone from doing something they found fun, and were not trying to force on anyone else. As long as no one ever tries to guilt me into agreeing to play against this crew it doesn't matter to me, and if it is fun for those that are partaking then it is certainly a worthwhile effort. I wish you luck once again.

As a side note, if wyrd is ok with you Doing this, but won't provide the digital files, you might ask spiriling cadaver if his fan made cards he did for Tara's Death Marshall's might not fit the bill. I'm not sure how he made them, but if he created a document with multiple layers and didn't just adjust the image tey might work for you.

 

Yeah, because copy-pasting swathes of abilities is a very difficult to read, whereas being able to edit a card would make things much better.  Even having the beta card template would be great.

 

I think whatever comes out of this will likely be a bit OP, and would definitely need to be toned down, but it is an interesting discussion.

 

Thin Lizzy:

 

Dancin' in the moonlight: Enemy models with the Hazy condition within   6 suffer -1 willpower

 

Disguised: This model may not be the target of charge actions

 

I was thinking that mercury could have the following abilities (all named after queen songs of course):

 

Blurred vision: If this model begins its activation and it has an odd number of wounds enemy models in   3 "(his melee range) gain the hazy +1 condition

 

Don't stop me now: At the start of the turn, if this model has an even number of wounds heal 2 wounds (kind of like having regen 1 but only on alternate wounds, means you can also creatively use Mr Cooper's scarf to get him healed by net 1 wound)

 

Under pressure: Raise this model's defence by 1 for each model with the Hazy condition within   6"

 

Hard to wound 1

 

And for Baritone lola:

 

Terrifying (all) 12

 

Ew it touched me: Enemy models that begin their activation in base contact with the model gain the Hazy +1 condition

 

Dreamstalker: Enemy models that fail a simple duel within   3 suffer 2 damage (a variant on coppelius' nightstalker)

 

The dance macabre (as before)

 

For Mr Cooper

 

The dance macabre

 

Accomplice (perhaps removing companion from the mumerettes and giving them a more interesting ability, also works with the other carny members)

 

Now you see me... Trigger Df/Wp  (not built in)  Attacking model gains the Hazy+1 condition. Place a marker in base contact with Mr Cooper, then place Mr Cooper in base contact with a Mumerette within 8", then place the Mummerette in base contact with the marker and remove it. (Probably a less wordy way of going about this, but basically you swap Mr Cooper and a mummerette, the enemy gains hazy +1)

 

Manipulative (13)

 

(I'm thinking Mr Cooper will be quite fragile, say 9ish wounds, but be quite difficult to pin down)

[Kalkris]

So, after the two polls have closed, the results for Questions 2 and 3 are in. The results are:

 

Flying Monkeys will be the Totem(s) for the Dark Carnival crew.

 

The mannequin-looking models which normally sub in as such will be referred to as Mummerettes, expressly for this crew.

 

I will hold off on the next 2 questions until the 21st, when Lola's station will (hopefully) be decided (as presently we have a tie! ). Let's try to break that tie by tomorrow (6/21) evening, 12:00AM EST!

 

~~~~~

 

So, looking to Manic Mouse's abilities for Lizzy, Mercury, Lola, and Cooper, here's what I figure:

 

 

Yeah, because copy-pasting swathes of abilities is a very difficult to read, whereas being able to edit a card would make things much better.  Even having the beta card template would be great.

 

I think whatever comes out of this will likely be a bit OP, and would definitely need to be toned down, but it is an interesting discussion.

 

Thin Lizzy:

 

Dancin' in the moonlight: Enemy models with the Hazy condition within   6 suffer -1 willpower Good. Goooood... But can we spice it up by doubling its effect within a3? end this ability with "Enemy models with the Hazy condition within A3 suffer an additional -1 Wp."? Or would that just be dumb and borked?

 

Disguised: This model may not be the target of charge actions I want to give Lizzy Manipulative as well, and to the same degree as Cooper (below). Disguised might not be the right choice, as there *are* such people as bearded ladies, and we don't quiiiiiiiiiiiiite know yet if Lizzy is in disguise here.

 

I was thinking that mercury could have the following abilities (all named after queen songs of course):

 

Blurred vision: If this model begins its activation and it has an odd number of wounds enemy models in   3 "(his melee range) gain the hazy +1 condition See "Don't Stop Me Now".

 

Don't stop me now: At the start of the turn, if this model has an even number of wounds heal 2 wounds (kind of like having regen 1 but only on alternate wounds, means you can also creatively use Mr Cooper's scarf to get him healed by net 1 wound) Can we switch odds and evens with Blurred Vision, so that Mercury can heal at the start of the turn if at 1 Wd from HtK? Is that imbalanced?

 

Under pressure: Raise this model's defence by 1 for each model with the Hazy condition within   6" What's Mercury's statline look like to you? Is his Df that low that it will need 2-3 models nearby him to buff a ton? I like Df 4 on him, with the potential to cap at 6 or 7 (read: "Raise this model's Df by +1 to a maximum of +3 for each model with the Hazy condition within A6." where A here represents the Aura symbol)

 

Hard to wound 1 Hard to Kill might be more applicable with Mercury if we are getting into odds/evens.

 

And for Baritone lola:

 

Terrifying (all) 12 13! It's a penguin, for crying out klown!

 

Ew it touched me: Enemy models that begin their activation in base contact with the model gain the Hazy +1 condition I think 1" might be better, or even whatever Lola's melee range will be, as when Lola strikes, they'll be touching them On that note, Lola's melee strikes (maybe with juggling pins?) should inflict Hazy+1 if possible, hearkening on "Ew (etc.)"

 

Dreamstalker: Enemy models that fail a simple duel within   3 suffer 2 damage (a variant on coppelius' nightstalker) If we keep Hazy as a simple-duel card-drainer, then this is fine. It's also very strong with Horror duels in general, so that's fun to test out, if a bit strong.

 

The dance macabre (as before) See Cooper's same ability

 

For Mr Cooper

 

The dance macabre I know I wrote this ability up, but could you refresh me on what it does? I forget and cannot seem to find it XD

 

Accomplice (perhaps removing companion from the mumerettes and giving them a more interesting ability, also works with the other carny members) No complaints here, although perhaps giving the Monkeys Companion (or even Accomplice!) instead might do better here (especially as Accomplice + Manipulative can sometimes be anti-synergistic).

 

Now you see me... Trigger Df/Wp  (not built in)  Attacking model gains the Hazy+1 condition. Place a marker in base contact with Mr Cooper, then place Mr Cooper in base contact with a Mumerette within 8", then place the Mummerette in base contact with the marker and remove it. (Probably a less wordy way of going about this, but basically you swap Mr Cooper and a mummerette, the enemy gains hazy +1) I know what you're trying to word here, but if you take a look at Tangled Shadows (one of Lilith's actions - I forget if it's standard or on an upgrade) you might be able to template it better. I also think that the T should be built into Wp here for the sake of Neverborn being better with their Wp offhand. I also think, since the totems are different (due to more popular demand), that Cooper should switch with a Flying Monkey. It could help with the success of their movement shenanigans, even. if we do do that (heh, do do), we could either retain this name or change it to "You'll Never Make A Monkey Out Of Me"

 

Manipulative (13) Kind of high, but at the same time, Mr. Cooper seems like a master manipulator, so this could be a good number. I agree that Manipulative is a wise choice.

 

(I'm thinking Mr Cooper will be quite fragile, say 9ish wounds, but be quite difficult to pin down) agreed. I think 10Wd is probably more reasonable, but we'll get to that discrepancy in the playtest.

 

Comments in bold yellow, as I do. I do kind of think the transposition trigger is a bit OP upon re-evaluating it, but if Glimpse the Void can happen, let's give this trigger an "activate once-per-turn" clause and a low, simple Wp duel for the foe to succeed as well.

 

I will now remove those particular polls and put their results on the original post before heading to bed. Night all!

 

~Lil Kalki

[Kalkris]

So, in brainstorming Mr. Cooper, I had thought of some neat options for a card for him (bouncing around some already-established traits, the givens re: the stats, and some new things as well), and I have come up with a card, as well as one new upgrade option, for Mr. Cooper.

 

~~~~~

 

Mr. Cooper (30mm base)
Arcanist/Neverborn
Cache 3
Master, Living, CARNY
Df 6
Wp 5T
Wd 10
Wk 6
Cg -
Ht 2

Abilities:
Danse Macabre: Enemy models with the Hazy condition within A6 must pass a TN 13 Wp duel when declaring any action other than a Walk action or the action automatically fails.
Infiltration (Showgirls/Puppets): Crews led by this model may hire up to 4 models with the Showgirl and/or Puppet Characteristic that are not the Crew's declared faction.
Df/Wp (T) Sleight of Hand: Once per Turn, after failing, the attacking model must succeed in a TN 10 Wp duel. If the model fails, place a friendly Puppet model within 6" of Mr. Cooper into base contact with Mr. Cooper, then place Mr. Cooper anywhere within 6".
Manipulative 13: If this model has not yet activated this turn, when an enemy model targets this model with an Attack Action, the enemy model must pass a TN 13 Wp duel or the action immediately fails.

Attack Actions:
(1) Silken Scarf (Ml7M/Rst:Wp/Rg:C1): Target suffers 1/1/2 damage and gains the following Condition for the rest of the game: "Hazy +1: After flipping for initiative, this model must pass a TN 13 Wp duel. If it succeeds, lower the value of this model's Hazy condition by 1."
>® Caress of Silk: After damaging, this model makes a 1/1/2 healing flip.
>(RM) Strangulate: After damaging, the target must discard two cards or two Soulstones or it is killed.

(1) Blow Smoke (Sh5C/Rst:Wp/Rg:G6): Target suffers 1/2B/3BB damage. All models damaged by this Action gain the following Condition for the rest of the game: "Hazy +1: After flipping for initiative, this model must pass a TN 13 Wp duel. If it succeeds, lower the value of this model's Hazy condition by 1."
>© Noxious Gas: After damaging, all models damaged gain the Poison Condition equal to the value of their Hazy Condition.
>(CT) Smoke and Fire: After damaging, all models damaged gain the Burning Condition equal to the value of their Hazy Condition.

Tactical Actions:
(0) Center Stage (Ca6M/TN:15): Place this model in the center of the board. Mr. Cooper may not take Interact actions for the remainder of this activation. Mr. Cooper can only succeed in taking this Action once per game, and only on any Turn after the first.
(0) The Haze Thickens (Ca6M/TN:13): Enemy models with the Hazy condition within p6 of this model must pass a TN 13 Wp duel or gain the following condition for the rest of the game: "Hazy +1: After flipping for initiative, this model must pass a TN 13 Wp duel. If it succeeds, lower the value of this model's Hazy condition by 1."

~~~~~

Freely Given
Cost: 1ss
> Mr. Cooper gains the following Attack Action:
(0) Freely Given (Ca6M/TN:16M/Rst:Wp/Rg:6): Target non-Leader model must discard a Soulstone, then immediately takes a (1) Action chosen and controlled by this model's controller. The model is considered friendly to Mr. Cooper for the duration of the Action.
> (MM) Gratefully Received: After succeeding, this model gains 1 Soulstone.

~~~~~
 

So, the items in italics are to be considered as new ideas, and may or may not need a bit of tweaking. Presently, this iteration of Mr. Cooper relies heavily on defensive tricks to keep alive. I might at this stage consider putting him to 9 Wd specifically because he is so difficult to hit. There are a LOT of simple duels generated by (this) Cooper, so we will probably want Lola, Mercury, and Lizzy to capitalize at least a bit with that factor, if it is to remain as such.

 

I think what I am presently concerned about is Center Stage, if only because either a) it's too restricted in its use, or it's too powerful. I don't think it is both at once, but this is a good topic for playtest. Also, Freely Given seems pretty fun IMHO, but if we can tweak it and make it more reasonable (however we do that), that'd be nice too. I was going off of Misaki's Cutpurse upgrade when brainstorming it (so hence the cost and part of the effect).

 

So what are we thinking so far with that?

 

Finally, I will be making Thread #2 tonight/tomorrow with updated information, including a new poll set, the givens we have so far based on poll results, and more questions to ask. I will be also reserving the second post of the thread for crew ideas to bounce around with. Sound good? Good.

 

~Lil Kalki

[Kalkris]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand scraping out the win re: Lola's station characteristic is... Henchman! By 4 votes to 3 (for Enforcer), Lola will be our Henchman for this Crew.

 

I will make the new thread when I awaken tomorrow. Cheers!

 

~Lil Kalki