CanYaDigIT Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I have not found a use for Mcmorning and i only occationally take a single nurse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I have not found a use for Mcmorning and i only occationally take a single nurse Well then, I might advise you to write a PM to Math, zFiend or Fetid, or look for Math's battle report thread. Many consider Nurses to be the best Resser Minion, and Poison bomber McMourning is his own level of filth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanYaDigIT Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 The nurse is not the best resser minion by far. She is a good resser minion in a faction with way to many great choices. Belles have a great lure. Crooligans and necropunks both have spots they can fill. Dead doxies are right there as well. Nurses are an ok choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 The nurse is not the best resser minion by far. She is a good resser minion in a faction with way to many great choices. Belles have a great lure. Crooligans and necropunks both have spots they can fill. Dead doxies are right there as well. Nurses are an ok choice. Well then. We'll have to disagree on that. Not on the great choices. But on getting Molly before McMourning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I feel like Nurses are great for stomping newbs. Experienced players can play around them or get rid of them quite easily. 5ss model that demands a response and can bring some utility even when opponent plays around it hardly useless though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanYaDigIT Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 but crooligans by themselves can score so many scheme maker based schemes that nurses simply cannot. Molly before mcmorning everytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 but crooligans by themselves can score so many scheme maker based schemes that nurses simply cannot. Molly before mcmorning everytimeBut dogs can. Nurses aren't the only models in McMourning box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzarcastic Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Just ask your Resser player whether they prefer Repo: the Genetic Opera or Jack Staff. If they say the former, go with McMourning. If the latter, Molly. And if they are unfamiliar with one or both, why are you wasting time? Just grab Nicodem and Seamus for now - you've gotta get out there to experience more surreal musicals and awesome indie comics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jafar Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Thanks for all feedback, also on ressers. Any other top 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHammer Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Yan Lol and his ancestors make for a good start to a 10T collection. Add lynch and Mei Feng (for Kang), and you're looking at a lot of good models, and three well varied masters. Misaki is still my favourite, of course, and her torakage are fantastic minions, but the other boxes are probably more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 @ Dirial Perdita gets cheap scheme runners in the form of either Wastrels or guild guard. Lucius gets some enforcers out of Perdita and more cheap minions to push around out of McCabe (who can heal as well which is nice to offset the cost of Devil's Deal) McCabe gets more enforcers to work with Promises, and some good extra targets for his throwable upgrades (lawyers with a glowing sabre or fast/reactivate is nice.) The only thing that you would really -need- to add is a box of riflemen for the take and hold style schemes (which, to be fair you can do with what is in the boxes already), and nearly everything else becomes optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Going back to the point I was trying to make earlier with my questions however....... What -I- would be looking for is what I would call the "train line" of masters, by which I mean you start at faction with your first master and build from there, which each new master being it's own "station" to a degree. For example: Jafar is playing Pandora, so Pandora is his first station master and gives him access to: Pandora Poltergeist Candy Baby Kade x3 Sorrows Now, all good stuff, but the one thing that I feel is missing from it is some good, reliable scheme runners. looking around at the other neverborn only masters, I see 2 boxes that spring to mind, either Lillith, or Collodi. Both have some great scheme runners (Tots or Wicked dolls), and bring another henchman to the table (Barbaros or Vasillia). Now, here it gets a little trickier to choose because both are good henchmen, but they do separate roles. If you like a more control based Pandora, I would give the edge to Collodi, but if you want more beatdown in your Pandora, Lillith is better. For the sake of this example, I am going to side with Lillith. Model Pool: Pandora / Lillith Poltergeist / Cherub Candy Baby Kade Barbaros x3 Sorrows x3 Terror Tots Nice, solid pool of mini's that can do a wide variety of Schemes and strats without any extra buy in, but of course lends itself to some obvious single mini buys such as a Teddy. Moving on to "station 3" I would be looking at branching out into one of the Duel Faction masters (Zoraida, Lynch, Lucius). Now, at this point I would be wondering what your other friends are interested in out of those 3 factions (Gremlin/TT/Guild) For the sake of brevity, I am gonna say someone likes 10T and we add the contents of Lynch's Box to your model pool. Model Pool: Pandora / Lillith / Lynch Poltergeist / Cherub / Huggy Baby Kade Candy Barbaros x3 Tots x3 Sorrows x3 Illuminated. Not a bad little pool of mini's, and we now have some firmer idea's on what extra buys you may want to make in the future. The teddy? Some Beckoners to give you some lures and work with the brilliance angle or drag people into the sorrow bubble of DOOM!!, or perhaps the nephalim box for some grow action on those tots. Any of them would be nice, but not -required- Next we move onto friend 1 who has said he likes 10T and we rumble along into 10T town........... 10T is a bit harder to deal with as it is nearly all duel faction, but I am sure we can keep the wheels on. Lets say your friend likes the idea of the Ancestral spirits so we go for Yan Lo Model Pool: Yan lo Soul Porter Chiaki the Neice x3 Ashigaru Duel faction 10T/Resser, solid base for some take and hold style schemes, but could do with some scheme runners and some in your face beatstick. At this point you could either stay in faction or head into resser territory, and to be quite honest he is probably -from a keeping your cost down perspective- better off getting some extra resser boxes, but we are in 10T town, so lets try to stay here and go with the next box of Misaki. Model Pool Yan Lo / Misaki Soul Porter, Shang Chiaki Ototo x3 Ashigaru x3 Torakage Now, this supports Yan Lo -far more- than it does Misaki as the only thing she gets out of this is Chiaki as the Ashigaru are Resser only, but she does bring some condition removal, heal, and the interesting ability of Purity which can force models away from her which can break up a firebase rather effectively which gives you some interesting tactical options with the torakage if you give Misaki the smoke and shadows upgrade. For Yan Lo, it adds a good beatstick with Ototo and some good, if expensive scheme runners in the Torakage. Last stop in town is McCabe Model Pool Yan Lo / Misaki / McCabe Soul porter / Shang / Luna Chiaki Ototo Sidir x3 Ashagaru x3 Torakage x3 Wastrels Now we have it all, beaters, shooters, cheap scheme runners, position holders. A few places where we can look for a few extra toys (Samurai, Snipers, Archers or a few extra big guys such as Izamu or Toshiro) Stand clear, doors closing, Next stop is Guild town. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Ok, we made it out of 10T town, and goddamn was that harder that I thought it would be Last friend wants to play guild So, where to start in guild? Well, I am biased as my first ever crew was Perdita, but lets not go there and say your 3rd friend wants to just beat the snot out of things -melee style-, which leaves us only one logical choice, Lady J. Model Pool Lady J Scales of Justice The Judge x3 Death Marshals We have beatstick, we have some good, if expensive schemers, a little card draw and a few move tricks via the Judge. not too crash hot on the whole "take and hold" side of things, nor too crash hot on the scheming, but those Marshals are really versatile and can drop schemes when they die, and have the lovely pine box to contain threats, if only for a little while if they need to hold the line. We need some support here, and I am not talking a jockstrap!! Enter Hoffman Model Pool Lady J / Hoffman Scales / Mech Attendant The Judge Guardian x2 hunters x3 Marshals x1 Watcher. Ok, this favours help for Lady J over Hoffman, but it does fill out some of the gaps a bit more. The watcher makes a great scheme runner, the guardian can make Lady J into an utter nightmare for take and hold and the hunters can fulfil a role -like- a lure but at shorter range, effectively hunting down the opponents squishy scheme runners. Unfortunately, extra constructs within the guild are in separate boxes not linked to masters, or just not out yet. Last stop, Lucius Model Pool Lady J / Hoffman / Lucius Scales / Mech Attendant / The Scribe The Judge Captain Dashel Guardian x2 Hunters x3 Mashals x1 Watcher x2 Guild guard x2 Guild lawyers Now we are rocking some good stuff. Take and hold, scheme running, beatdown, support, all covered. The weak link here is Hoffman as none of our extra models are constructs, but I am sure the other models can bring what you need for a match-up. If not, you know where to look fist for a few extra buys into the crew. So, the train ride ends, not just at the end, but because Lucius is duel faction Guild/Neverborn, we arrive back at the beginning with not just 3 crews covered, but providing 4 masters, not 3 for each of our crews. I am sure some of the other players, if having read through all my ravings has recognized the basic, underlying trinity of masters that is going on here, that being Lucius, Lynch, and McCabe which I think -uniquely- can say that they provide 2 masters for 3 different factions in 3 models. They probably also recognize that the model pools are not -entirely- accurate when it comes to what each faction can draw upon at any given time, based on either upgrades, or card text of the respective masters involved. Given just the 9 boxes of models, the pools for the respective factions are: Neverborn: Pandora / Lillith / Lynch / Lucius Poltergeist / Cherub / Huggy / Scribe Barbaros Candy Baby Kade x3 sorrows x3 Terror Tots x3 Illuminated *Lynch is capable of adding models with the Darkened Characteristic *Lucius is capable of adding models with the Guardsman/Mimic Characteristic Ten Thunder Lynch / Yan Lo / Misaki / McCabe Huggy/ Soul porter / Shang / Luna Ototo Chiaki Sidir x3 Illuminated x3 Ashigaru (Yan Lo only) x3 Torakage x3 Wastrels *Lynch is capable of adding models with the Darkened Characteristic *McCabe is capable of adding models with the Guardsman/black sheep Characteristic *Misaki is capable of adding models with the Last Blossom Characteristic Guild McCabe / Lady J / Hoffman / Lucius Luna / Scales / Mech Attendant / Scribe Sidir The Judge Captain Dashel x3 Wastrels x3 Death Marshals x2 Hunters x2 Guild Guard x2 Guild Lawyers x1 Watcher x1 Guardian *McCabe is capable of adding models with the Black Sheep Characteristic *Lucius is capable of adding models with the Mimic Characteristic Looks pretty good to me for 3 crew boxes per person with no extra buy in, but even that is not the end of the railway. Given the boxes I have used in this little train ride, you have openings to expand into other factions and have models already for it. Yan Lo can expand into Resser, Misaki can expand into Outcasts, and Hoffman can expand into Arcanists, giving you 3 more factions that you have a basis to start in if you wanted to, Are the choices -entirely- optimal? Hmm, perhaps not, but they do get close to your best investment for minimal cost, and maximum flexibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 @ Dirial Perdita gets cheap scheme runners in the form of either Wastrels or guild guard. Lucius gets some enforcers out of Perdita and more cheap minions to push around out of McCabe (who can heal as well which is nice to offset the cost of Devil's Deal) McCabe gets more enforcers to work with Promises, and some good extra targets for his throwable upgrades (lawyers with a glowing sabre or fast/reactivate is nice.) The only thing that you would really -need- to add is a box of riflemen for the take and hold style schemes (which, to be fair you can do with what is in the boxes already), and nearly everything else becomes optional. I disagree: Wastrels and Guild Guard are not very good Scheme runners, even the Marshals from Justice's box are better. She also really needs a Marshal to protect Papa. Also, your list denies her Witchlings. Lucius doesn't want the Enforcers from Dita's box. He can't do much with them, and Riflemen do everything he could do with them better. And Wastrels? Nah. Outside of McCabe crew I would not play more than one, and not as a priority. What Lucius want are Hunters and Witchling Stalkers. On McCabe, your points are solid, but McCabe makes everything better. Sadly, the best thing in his box, Sidir, doesn't do too much for Dita and Lucius. No, I think missing out on Witchling Stalkers is too bad a trade-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Well, let's agree to disagree. I think wastrel's are great scheme runners because if all they do is move, they have inbuilt defensive 1. Guild guard *are* sub-par, I will agree with you there, but if you are insisting on the "real models" I can't think of much better to replace them but hounds, and hounds are just not produced right now. If your group does not have a hard on for not using proxies, then grab some canine remains and go nuts!! As for hunters, I did suggest them in my long-winded set of posts, but I would take a Lucius/Lynch combo of mini's for Lucius over a Lucius/Hoffman -any day of the week- for a stand alone set. -which is what we are dealing with here- I gotta say though, I am surprised about this desire for stalkers. Yes, they are good............... roadblocks, and they can remove conditions, but without Sonnia, there is no anti-magic bubble and the burning is less useful than say Fee's from the lawyers. They are fast, but no faster than any other 5 move minion, and don't have the defence of the wastrels, and cost more. If you wanted handlers, or something else to synergise with them, then my argument would change entirely of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Well, let's agree to disagree. Okay, let's do that. You completely forgot the main draw of Stalkers for me: damage. Also, Samael can carry the anti-magic bubble as well. And condition removal is gold. Well, to reiterate: I think McCabe's, Lucius' and McMourning's box sets are bad for Guild starters, because some included models are corner case or lack synergies. Perdita's box is not full of synergies, either, but at least it's very self-sufficient. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I feel like Nurses are great for stomping newbs. Experienced players can play around them or get rid of them quite easily. 5ss model that demands a response and can bring some utility even when opponent plays around it hardly useless though.I seem to recall my Nurse surviving to the end and being quite a nuisance throughout the whole game in our Molly vs Dreamer match. I mean, I thought I got great value out of her but of course it's just my point of view. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 @ Dirial I just don't see the stalkers -as individual models- doing heaps of damage. YES, if you add Sam into the mix, you can add the bubble, but unless you get an old metal one, you -have- to get the sonnia box, which does not play into the notion of this thread Condition removal is great, it's freaking awesome is you stuff up a Lucius side command, but not everyone throws out conditions. By the by, I never recommended McMourning, so I dunno where you got that from, cause I would -never- recommend Doc Mcstuffins in those other 2 crews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 @ Dirial I just don't see the stalkers -as individual models- doing heaps of damage. YES, if you add Sam into the mix, you can add the bubble, but unless you get an old metal one, you -have- to get the sonnia box, which does not play into the notion of this thread Condition removal is great, it's freaking awesome is you stuff up a Lucius side command, but not everyone throws out conditions. By the by, I never recommended McMourning, so I dunno where you got that from, cause I would -never- recommend Doc Mcstuffins in those other 2 crews. Well, Ml with effective weak damage of 3 if the opponent is not immune to Burning seems like a lot for a 5 SS model to me. And why would the Sonnia box not play into the notion of this thread? I would always get the Sonnia box as one of the three Master boxes, just as I said. Also, I didn't say you recommended McMourning, I just reiterated which box sets I would definitely not advise a Guild starter to buy if they just want to get three Master boxes, and not buy models from other Master boxes on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 They also have MI6 which is rare for 5 SS minions. I take 1 or 2 in most of my crews and they failed me once (against Hoffball with Langston that hit EVERY attack during the whole game, including 5 hits on Lady Justice in the same game) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I seem to recall my Nurse surviving to the end and being quite a nuisance throughout the whole game in our Molly vs Dreamer match. I mean, I thought I got great value out of her but of course it's just my point of view.That game had remarkably little to do with Malifaux. I will agree that Nurses are very good against Lelu and Lilitu, but that doesn't really tell much about their overall usefulness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 That game had remarkably little to do with Malifaux. I will agree that Nurses are very good against Lelu and Lilitu, but that doesn't really tell much about their overall usefulness.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 @ Dirial Where is the burning coming from to add damage to the base attack of the stalker? If it can stay in combat, or charge, then yes, burning mark will give the extra damage, and even allow weak damage to do 4 points (at end of turn). I am not saying they are bad models, because that would be patently false, but I will question buying a crew in a limited environment (in this case money) over crews that can work better togeather. I think you have a perfectly valid point dude, don't get me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 @ Dirial Where is the burning coming from to add damage to the base attack of the stalker? If it can stay in combat, or charge, then yes, burning mark will give the extra damage, and even allow weak damage to do 4 points (at end of turn). I'm not sure I follow you there. The burning comes everytime they punch somebody. It doesn't matter if they stay in combat or charge... They always add 1 burning so their weak damage is effectively 3 (where does the 4 come from?). And I don't see which crew you see as working together better? The Sonnia crew works like a charm, and the Witchling is good in every other crew in Guild, even Hoffman. They are self-sufficient, but get even better with some support. The Wastrel and Guild Guard cannot match them in that. If money is a limiting factor, I'd buy Justice and Sonnia and be done. No additional models needed at all for a functioning crew with either Master (not perfect, but working reasonably well). Now, McCabe and Lucius are not bad box sets, on the contrary, but for beginners, they are lacking. They need more than is inside. The included Minions don't have much synergy outside their own box sets, and both boxes lack severely in damage output. They might both work if you add Lady Justice or Sonnia, but I remain with my point: McMourning, McCabe and Lucius are the least synergistic box sets (with the other box sets, not in themselves), Hoffman is the middle ground, Dita, Lady Justice and Sonnia are on the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 @ Dirial My bad, it is 2 damage / 3 if burning is still on at end of turn. I think our disagreement comes down to what 2 boxes makes a good investment, and how we play the game. Is this your optimal figure spread for 2 masters: Lady J / Sonnia Scales / purifying flame Judge Sam hopkins x3 Death Marshals x3 Witchling stalkers. It's good, I am not denying it, but I think I would prefer Lady J and Lucius, or Sonnia and McCabe as combos, but that is based on -how I like to play- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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