who to start (back) with?

[Gremlin guy]

I'm returning to the game and haven't played since the 2E beta started and I'm not sure which master I should jump back in with. When I last played, I was all over the place and owened crews from each faction except 10T. This time I would like to be a little more focused and choose a master and then faction to learn well.

My first box set and original love was Ophelia. The shooting is great and I love gremlin shenanigans! I have less experience with S'ommer but he always seemed to have great tricks under his hat.

How are thier playstyles now, or, if you played 1.5 as well, what has changed and what remains the same?

The other masters they're up against for my attention are: Nicodem, Zoraida (Neverborn), Collodi, and Lucious (guild and neverborn). If you have any experience with these masters to compare and contrast, it would be appreciated as well.

[zFiend]

Dude seriously how many threads did you do? Might be easier with just one.

Anyway Gremlins are great fun. Ophelia and Somer in particular. A lot of their stuff can be found from pullmyfinger wiki.

Gremlins do suffer from a loss of models though. So you might be in for a wait for some models atm.

[Math Mathonwy]

Well, you have three Gremlin Masters on your short list, so the green ones it should be!

Ophelia is extremely killy (might very well be the killiest Master in the game) but also sports some support abilities. She is pretty versatile and can be used for all Strategies (though naturally her crew will vary).

Somer is similarly versatile in that he can do well in all Strategies. Some people consider his summoning to be an utterly integral part of him but he can be successfully played without it as well. He isn't exactly lacking for stuff to do with his AP. He is the ultimate toolbox being a fantastic support piece, extremely lethal, having superior debuff abilities (throwing away both players' hands tends to debuff the enemy in an extreme way), and nice summoning abilities as well.

Finally, Zoraida, once again someone who works well with all Strategies, the ultimate Obeyer and her Voodoo Doll can kill or shut down even extremely powerful models. She has access to Silurids who make some Schemes utterly trivial and Waldgeists who offer something the Gremlin faction lacks (wide melee presence in a really durable package).

All are good starting points though quite different. All are fun to play! Pick the one who strikes your fancy but I would suggest getting Ophelia's box in all cases since the Kin are useful for all Gremlin Masters (and both Somer and Zoraida lack Gremlin Henchmen in their boxes - something that Francois really fixes (one of the best Henchmen in the game)). Also pick up a box of Slop Haulers and a box of Bayou Gremlins (the best 3SS Minions in the game!).

So my suggestion would be:

1) Get Ophelia.

2) Get Slop Haulers and Bayou Gremlins.

3) Get Somer or Zoraida.

4) Get Zoraida or Somer.

5) Strongly consider Merris and/or Gracie.

Edit: Besides, you're Gremlin Guy! How silly would it be if you didn't play Gremlins?

[Gremlin guy]

@ Zfiend: 1 for each faction I'm interested in. The assumption being the faction subforum would have the most expertise in that factions masters.

@Math: I have everything on your list except Merris so that's good news for me. Now to get the cards. Great write up too.

@ both: Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the lack of models for Gremlins. Are most of the cards out yet? I've looked at the wikki, its great, but it doesn't give the same feel for the caster to me, that these forum post can.

[zFiend]

If you get wave 1 and 2 arsenal decks you are pretty much covered with the cards.

[Dirial]

If you get wave 1 and 2 arsenal decks you are pretty much covered with the cards.

 

*snicker*

[Math Mathonwy]

I wasn't aware of the lack of models for Gremlins.

The problem really isn't all that huge anymore.

On the first Wave, Wyrd left most of the Gremlin stuff for last but now they have released everything except Brewmaster and Whiskey Golem (both are slated for a May release). And since there are no metal models for most of the Wave 2 stuff (unlike with most other Factions) they were kinda lacking. But if you are interested in plastic, then the situation is no worse than for other Factions, really, currently.

And ZFiend covered the cards (both Arsenal packs are available so you can get all the cards).

If you have any specific questions, feel free to fire away

[Kofibrake]

and dont miss out on Bert Jebsen as the next best shooty Gremlin after Ophelia.

Plus he Combos nicely with Gracie on Turf war shennanigans

[Gremlin guy]

I pit in an order for the wave 1 and 2 gremlin decks through my FLGS tonight. It will probably take a bit longer than if I ordered through the web page, but I like supporting the store since I play there.

After looking g through my models, gremlins made the most sense. I've got four of the Gremlin Masters (Zoraida, Ophelia, So'mer,and Wong) and I have a Lott of thethe other old stuff since I couldn't bring myself to sell the Gremlins (I did trade out 6 piglets though).

Here is what I have:

Masters

Ophelia LaCroix

So'mer Teeth Jones

Zoraida

Wong

Henchmen

Francois LaCroix

McTavish

Totems

Skeeter (2)

Voodoo Doll

Young LaCroix

Enforcers

Lenny

Pere Ravage

Rami LaCroix

Raphael LaCroix

Burt Jebsen

Gracie

Gremlin Taxidermist (1)

Minions

Bayou Gremlin (3 or 4)

Hog Whisperer (1 with 1piglet)

Slop Hauler (2)

War Pig

Peons

Pigapult

Stuffed Piglet (6)

I also have some never borne, sillurids, bad juju, Collodi's crew, etc...

With these models, what kind of lists would you build at 35 and 50 SS?

Also, what in the above would work well against a Dreamer list?

[Dirial]

I'm no Gremlin player, so jsut some general advice:

 

Don't fall into the trap of pretailored lists. This is not WM/H. You should build your list after seeing the board (good shooting angles - Ophelia list of ranged doom, for example), and after you know what the victory conditions will be.  A list tailored to the board and scenario will almost always be better than a list tailored to the opponent.

 

Of course, a list you know well has a lot of upsides as well, so thinking about fixed lists is a good exercise for beginners. But I'll leave that to the others.

[Math Mathonwy]

Always build for the terrain and Strategy and Schemes and yada yada

With that out of the way, here's a nice list for non-Reckoning games for Ophelia:

Gremlins Crew - 50 - Scrap

Ophelia LaCroix -- 7 Pool

+Liquid Bravery [1]

• Young LaCroix X 2 [4]
• Bayou Gremlin [3]
• Bayou Gremlin [3]
• Francois LaCroix [7]

  +Stilts [1]

• Lenny [9]
• Raphael LaCroix [7]

  +Dirty Cheater [1]

• Slop Hauler [5]
• Slop Hauler [5]

Raphael and the two Bayous do Schemes while Francois and Ophelia wreck face with Slops, Lenny, and Youngs as support. You should have a fair chance at outactivation and Lenny can throw Ophelia (who can then Ooh a Girl Lenny) for a kill on the first round unless the opponent plays very cagey (and if they do, then you are likely in a strong position for the second round).

[Verdeloth]

Agreed math we all know we should not have pretailored lists but its allways nice to get a push in the right direction and get inspiration to what can be the best list for you in X schemes.

dirial maybe just to busy to post lists seeing its not his first time point this out

[Dirial]

Agreed math we all know we should not have pretailored lists but its allways nice to get a push in the right direction and get inspiration to what can be the best list for you in X schemes.

dirial maybe just to busy to post lists seeing its not his first time point this out

 

I point this out because is important to say early. Beginners have to get it into their head that tailoring lists to the scenario is the Malifaux way.

 

To understand the logic behind a given list, it's often important to know the victory conditions, so I try to make it obvious that (in general) you cannot field a list you found on the internet and expect it to work (like in WM/H or Warhammer). At least, you have to know the list and the game plan behind it.

 

That said, of course I enjoy making lists and discussing them. I'm just not an expert on Gremlins (apart from being shot to bits by my wife).

[Math Mathonwy]

Against Dreamer, you prolly could do worse than this (at least in a non-Reckoning game):

Gremlins Crew - 50 - Scrap

Wong -- 6 Pool

+Liquid Bravery [1]

+Ooo Glowy [1]

• Bayou Gremlin [3]
• Bayou Gremlin [3]
• Bayou Gremlin [3]
• Burt Jebsen [7]
• Francois LaCroix [7]

  +Stilts [1]

• Gracie [10]

  +Saddle [1]

• Slop Hauler [5]
• Slop Hauler [5]

Glowy Gracie is rather nasty to say the leasst and Wong can ride on her back like a boss. Burt is better than Raphael for Wong and then a hardy amount of Slops and Bayous to do what needs doing. As a general note against Dreamer: kill the Daydreams! Kill them dead!

[Gremlin guy]

Thanks again to everyone for the help. I do understand that list building is going to be different depending on schemes, terrain, etc... This is just me being lazy and trying to make sure I don't stuff my list with things that are terrible against the Dreamer and things he may bring (Teddy).

[Math Mathonwy]

Thanks again to everyone for the help. I do understand that list building is going to be different depending on schemes, terrain, etc... This is just me being lazy and trying to make sure I don't stuff my list with things that are terrible against the Dreamer and things he may bring (Teddy).

Francois is really good at killing Teddy. He has high Wp to overcome Terrifying and with the in-built Dumb Luck Trigger his minimum damage is 4. With his Ml 6 hitting the Teddy Df of 3 shouldn't be a problem and with Reckless the Teddy will die to one Activation. Of course there's the problem that Dreamer makes Teddy move like the wind so you need to catch it but Gremlins don't lack for movement tricks of their own. Wong OTOH is superb in killing Incorporeal Nightmares and Glowy Gracie can kill anything and everything.

[Gremlin guy]

Awesome. More so because I have those models!