Misaki vs. Leveticus

[Rurouni Benshin]

She needs LoS, but there is a Outcast upgrade which lets her ignore LoS for an action.

Well then... Looks like I need to see how she does as an Outcast now...

 

Post Edit: Just looked up the upgrade. "Scout the Field" wouldn't be bad for her, except you need to sacrifice it in order to let her charge without needing LOS. That extra move at the start of the turn would be nice early on though. If she can survive the length of the game, it would definitely help having her have the extra movement.

[Patzer]

She can play a lot differently in Outcasts, that is for sure. Scout the Field, Survivalist (that Hard to Kill is amazing on her), and Oathkeeper for an extra turn of omph are all really good upgrades for her. Scramble isn't that bad of a choice either. There is a thread about Outcast Misaki that you should definitely give a look!

[OSP]

I'm a TT Misaki player and just played my first game with Levi as my master last night.  I've never played Misaki vs. Levi, but I have used this list in the past and can be very effective.  Its what I would try against him.

 

Misaki - Stalking Bisento, Recalled Training

Sensie Yu - Blot the Sky, Wandering River Style

 

 

Yu can copy the (0) action of his master.  So between Misaki and Yu they can have two opponents stalked simultaneously.  This gives Misaki two target and two opportunities to take an extra walk each round.

 

Yu can use Air Burst and Mighty Gust on the same target each round.  This can push Misaki up to 10 inches as give her fast.  As long as she can last one activation exposed you can get her very close to her victim.  This is a great time to burn stones to keep her healthy and get closer to Assaniate (see below).

 

Next activate Misaki.  She should be in charge range.  Pop recalled training.  Against a stalked target Misaki gets 5 attacks with    on attack and damage.  That should usually be enough to take the target.  Often I can kill a target with 3 or 4 AP.  With her 4" push from Next Target and 1 to 2 AP I can often get her back to safety and within range of Yu for another attack run next turn against the other stalked target or Yu might be able to stalk a new target for her.  I usually run Misaki with just a couple of stones to take advantage of Risky Ventures.  If you have only 1 stone you can discard it to add a  to your fist attack, Risky Ventures then kicks in giving  so you auto-get the Assassinate trigger.  If you have only 2 stones left you can also spend one to get a  to the attack.  So your first attack is       attack,     damage with auto-Assassinate.  And a crow on your next four attacks give Assassinate.  When you flip sever damage (6) and assassinate on that first attack, it can be a very tough choice for your opponent.  They know that model is going to die, is it worth the stones/cards to use up more of Misaki's actions?  You can't stalk A&D since it's immune to conditions, but you will still probably kill it with 5 attacks with  to attack and damage.  With Yu's pushes and fast you should be able to get to a some of those Waifs hiding places.  Waifs can be very hard to hit with Df 6 if they taken defensive stance.  But a lot of the baby-sitters people like to use are hard to kill, but easy to hit.  If the Waif is within  range use Misaki's Thunder attack against the baby-sitter and kill the Waif with splash damage.

 

Also remember Recalled Training works for EVERY dual for the entire turn.  That includes Df/Wp duals if you leave her exposed.  I've got her killed several times by forgetting that when I decide to go all out attack instead of returning to Yu.

 

Using this yo-yo effect in one game Misaki shot out and killed Barbados, moved all the way back to Yu (getting out of Nekima's range) in one turn.  The next turn Yu gave Misaki fast and pushed her though dense terrain close enough to charge Nekima.  Killed her and Next Targeted into Lucius and killed him. 

 

 

 

Please, could someone tell me how do you stop the Misaki/Yu combo?

A friend of mine has been playing lately with those miniatures (Misaki and Yu) and it seems unstoppable. We have find that Misaki now has an effective charge range of 20" (5"+5"+8"+2") and 4 AP thanks to fast. With that and two stalks she's able to kill two miniatures each turn. And we're not talking about two terror tots, gupps or canine remains. She is going to kill a henchman or a key miniature each turn plus another one that is near.

 

It's not easy to hide from her (remember stalked, so if I move to avoid her she moves), you can't engage her thanks to diving charge and with that loooooooooooooooong charge range she is the one who chooses the fights.

 

So, how do you stop the combo?

[Kadeton]

So, how do you stop the combo?

 

I fell victim to this in my last game, where Misaki killed Miss Step and a Performer on the first turn, and Cassandra on the second turn. My opponent did have some good luck in drawing 2+ high Crows on both turns, but man, it felt rough. If anyone has some hot tips on how to avoid getting murderised, I'd be very interested!

[Da Git]

Mr. Death Trout sir,

 

That is brilliant!  Time to get Misaki out again!

[Gennosuke]

So, how do you stop the combo?

 

If anyone has some hot tips on how to avoid getting murderised, I'd be very interested!

 

As somebody who has played that combo several times, one thing most discourages me is been unable to stalk, or to charge to the stalked target. So condition-removers (to quit Stalked) are a great way to restrain Misaki's rampage. As well, move cautiously first turn, ending out of sight so niether Misaki and/or Sensei Yu may Stalk.

 

Also, keep in mind that if Sensei Yu spend his 2 AP pushing Misaki so she may end at the other side of the table killing, it will imply Sensei Yu is way behind her (and probably from most of the action), and would not be able to push-push-fast her again until turn 3 or 4, and maybe with a Misaki too far from where she should be.

Besides, most times I play Misaki+Sensei Yu, I feel like if I'm not killing in the first turn I not making the best use out of it, which sometimes makes me charge models without pondering through.

With this in mind, consider "offering" a bait to Misaki, a lesser model far away but still in range of a Misaki+Sensei Yu combo, and make sure it's the only charge-able option, hoping your adversary sends her thoughlessly, ending with a drift and too far away Misaki.

 

At the moment, those are the things I found most troublesome with Misaki+Sensei Yu Rampage.

[MrDeathTrout]

I've done very well with this combo, but we are a young group and I think that has a lot to do with it.  This combo has some weaknesses.

 

1) It is very resource intensive (between Yu with upgrades and the two archers 26 SS).  That is a lot of points to make it work and when there are some beaters headed its way I find I like often need someone else to help run interference (Kang or Yamaziko). So the majority of my crew is dedicated making sure those two archers get their shots off.  It may be worth it in some scenarios.  It great for Turf War.  Set up two or more of the archers and Yu in the circle, use drop some schemes where they are at and when you push Misak wtih Mightly Gust move those markers onto the center line.  But other senarious having so many points in one spot you can't do what you need to to do other places.

 

2) It's not all that mobile.  Yu's push tricks help a lot, but its a pain to keep this engine working while moving this group around and keep them out of LoS.

 

3) This group is fragile.  If you get one person in to engage those archers they can't shoot and they have no close attacks.  Yu is not terrible at melee, but he doesn't do a lot of damage either it might take a bit to clear out the enemy and while that's going on you archers will have trouble shooting and not getting dead.  If someone got into melee with this group I would try to use Yu and/or one of the archers to block LoS to one or more archers and use Rapid Fire to clear out the enemy.  Or I'd have to use Misaki to clean up.  If this is cleaning this up she isn't yo-yoing out to kill something else.

 

If I was up against this group some of the tactics I would use against it would be

 

1) Avoid it if possible.  I you don't have to go into that 12" bubble for you VPs don't.  This is by far the best option if 24 SS of my crew is twiddling its thumbs you are going to win.  I've won a couple times with this group just because the opponent was more focused on killing than VPs.  And went after this core a lot harder than they should have.

 

2) Use cover.  The archers Hail attack ignores LoS, but not cover.  It's not going to help a lot against +++/+++ but -/- is better than nothing.

 

3) Don't bunch up.  The archers Hail attack has  on Mod and Sev damage.  I love it when my opponent lets me hit two models every time the archers fire.  Or stands a high Df model next to a model with high Df or a killer DF trigger, so I can blast onto them and ignore all that.

 

4) Use a fast melee model to get in there and disrupt it.  A silurid could probably get in an kill an archer and disrupt the combo for a round.  Anything with Leap would be fantastic.

 

5) If you are going after the archers bum rush them.  Don't trickle in or you models will just melt as the close in.  Those archers are going to kill something or hurt it very bad every round.  So if you go in stat out of range until you can go in with a lot of models at once so something lives to engage them.

 

6) Avoid Stalk.  Yu and Misaki need LoS to Stalk.  Make it hard for them to do this if Yu has to come out of hiding to stalk someone he's exposed and he's using his actions to move instead of buff someone else.  If Misaki stalks then she cannot use a (0) attack that round bringing her down to 4 possible attacks.

 

7) Stall Misaki.  Yu is going to push her and giver her fast.  If you can keep you models so that she cannot get LoS from Yu's push she's going to have to use a walk to get LoS on you.  That's one less attack.  If you were able to avoid Stalk until then as well then you've brought her down to 3 possible attack actions.  Misaki can still kill a lot of stuff with 3 actions, but she might not be able to get back to Yu when she's done.  That means she exposed for a round and no Fast for her next round.  Try to bait her out with someone not quite exposed and with some form of extra fefense (armor, hard to kill, defensive stance, etc.) that will keep her from killing and getting back to Yu every round.

 

8) Armor/Regen/Incorporeal.  All of these will really mitigate the killing power of the archers and help stall out Misaki.

 

 

9)  Misc other.  Some ideas I've had that would be somewhat to very effective.  Lilith doesn't need LoS for her spell that switches one of her models for one of yours.  Yanking an archer into base with Lilith while sending in a beater in its place would end this real quick.  Lilith can also Root Misaki with no LoS.  A push ends that, but Misaki would take 4 damage (1 for being rooted, 3 for being pushed while rooted).  Austringers out range the archers (18" when focused) and they ignore LoS and cover.  Take Killjoy buried and send in something fast after Misaki has activated.  If the archers kill it at the end of the round that's the perfect time to unbury killjoy.  Watchers can let your leader ignore LoS.  A soulstone miner could pop up near them.

[MrDeathTrout]

Kadeton,

 

Looks like you are running arcanists.  Try the Killjoy trick.  If you're using Colette then you can send one of those Mechanical Doves right next to the archers.  Should have no trouble getting there with 10" fly.  If they don't kill it use Detonate Soulstone to kill it.  If you summon Killjoy where he is not engaged he'll charge for 1 AP when activated.  Your biggest threat will be Misaki.  Try to bait her out of position first.  Or just charge her with Killjoy.  I've your not using Colette then a Malifaux Rapotor or Soulstone Miner should work as well. 

[Kadeton]

Cheers Deathtrout. To be honest, I haven't even faced the Archer portion of the combo as yet - just Misaki + Yu alone were enough to destroy half my crew in the first two turns. I'll be a lot more prepared for it next time, but I'm still a bit stumped on how to take Misaki out before she really starts cutting through my crew. She weathered a charge from Miss Step with barely a scratch, whacked Step's head off in return, then Shang healed her up again to keep fighting.

 

I have a lot more respect for Misaki now - in the few games I played her the Assassination trigger rarely came up, because I never seemed to draw the cards I needed to get it done. This Misaki hit the trigger... six times in the three turns we played, I think? When her hand is hot and full of Crows, she's an absolute nightmare, seriously tough to put down, and with Yu she's really mobile. It was quite the experience!

[Hateful Darkblack]

If you're looking for a Levy list that won't just stomp Misaki too much, consider taking a different list. Leveticus has a lot of flexibility in Crew choices and you could try something new to balance out the experience levels a little as well.

 

Some ideas to consider that always make me laugh when I think of them:

Leveticus with a bunch of Dolls. (Collodicus)

Leveticus with Coryphee, Mannikins, and Performers. (Coletticus).

Leveticus with Joss, Spiders, and Howard Langston. (Ramos-Levi).

Leveticus with Montresor, The Hanged, the Guilty, and maybe some Drowned. (JackDawveticus)

Leveticus with twelve Electrical Creations (Chose-Poorly-Levi)

[MrDeathTrout]

Cheers Deathtrout. To be honest, I haven't even faced the Archer portion of the combo as yet - just Misaki + Yu alone were enough to destroy half my crew in the first two turns. I'll be a lot more prepared for it next time, but I'm still a bit stumped on how to take Misaki out before she really starts cutting through my crew. She weathered a charge from Miss Step with barely a scratch, whacked Step's head off in return, then Shang healed her up again to keep fighting.

 

I have a lot more respect for Misaki now - in the few games I played her the Assassination trigger rarely came up, because I never seemed to draw the cards I needed to get it done. This Misaki hit the trigger... six times in the three turns we played, I think? When her hand is hot and full of Crows, she's an absolute nightmare, seriously tough to put down, and with Yu she's really mobile. It was quite the experience!

 

I don't know if I have a good answer for this, but in general try to separate her from Yu.  Without him she is not getting pushed or fast.  She's going to have to use her own AP to get into position and maybe she is going to be left a little exposed.  Usually when I lose Misaki its because an attack run didn't go a well as I would have liked and instead of cutting it short and getting out I get greedy and end up exposed.  

 

Conditions can be very good as well.  My son plays Lilith and loves to root Misaki.  I didn't have her near Yu to push her so she was stuck doing pretty much nothing for two rounds.  I did finally get  a model close enought to use a downburst unroot her.

 

It's hard to say just off what you said, but it sounds like luck played somewhat of a roll in that game.  If Misaki get Assassinate of 6 times in three rounds that player is either very lucky or much better at hand control than I am.  To assassinate she needs a card with a crow and another crow either from using a SS or being out of SS.  So she's burning a lot of stones is already out, so can't prevent damage.  Also I would not want to take a charge from Miss Step with Misaki.  She's fairly squishy unless she has a lot of the defensive upgrades.  Not sure if this was luck or good play on the Misaki player's part, but I would  be worried if Miss Step was about to charge my Misaki.

 

It sounded like you charged Misaki then she activated hitting you back.  I'd try to draw her out make her come to Miss Step.  If she's next to Yu she has all 5 actions to slaughter you without worry.  If she has to come to you and you've got some other threats nearby, she has to use AP to get in and out. 

 

Here's something I just thought of.  It's a bit risky, but Misaki can only push out on a success.  If you have some high cards in you hand maybe let Misaki's first couple of attacks through if you can survive it.  Use a couple of med cards to make her cheat a bit if you can or just give her less  .  Then when she is running low on AP use your high cards to make her fail.  Shen can't next target if she doesn't inflict damage.  You might get her stuck.  That happened to me once a long time ago when was first trying her out.  I just flipped bad on my last two attacks and she couldn't disengage.

[Kadeton]

Yeah, there was a tremendous amount of luck involved, along with some bad luck on my part and some degree of unfamiliarity with my own crew (I'm experimenting with the Arcanists after playing Outcasts for over a year, so I still have a lot to learn).

 

In that game, Misaki only had to burn a single stone to prevent damage. Halfway through Turn 1, she was unactivated and in position to charge Miss Step or an activated Performer that I'd moved slightly up the board (flank deployment), not realising her Vik-level threat range. I figured at that point that either Miss Step was going to charge Misaki and then probably die, but might get a Decapitate off to pull some cards from the opponent's hand and lay down a bit of damage, or on her activation Misaki was going to charge Miss Step and the Performer and probably kill them both. Given that choice, I charged with Miss Step, hit with one attack doing 2 damage after prevention, then as expected Misaki Stalked Miss Step, killed her, and killed the Performer with a charge, pushing into a forest to get LoS to Cassandra.

 

At the top of turn 2, I activated Cassandra, put up Southern Charm, did some scheme stuff. Misaki activated, Stalked her, charged, and killed her with two attacks (and two Assassinations). With those free twists, I got a taste of why people hate playing against my Levy - attack penalties and defensive abilities just feel meaningless.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by getting her "stuck"? So far nothing's survived a single round of combat against her (though I recognise this was part fluke and part Rathnard being a jammy card wizard) and she never bothered to disengage - her defensive stats are more than good enough to weather a few attacks once she's taken out the heavy hitters, and if she's engaged with multiple enemies she's got Misdirection. If she does ever need to leave, she's got Yu's pushes, her own pushes, can push enemies away, and has the ability to charge out of combat into softer targets. I find it hard to imagine a situation in which she's ever tarpitted for any longer than she chooses to be.

[scarlett fever]

I've played a lot of games with Misaki, not as many with her and Yu, maybe only 6+ with that combo. I still loose more games with her than with Shenlong or McCabe.

 

It does sound like you were unlucky, she generally gets one big turn (usually turn 2) and is dead before turn 5.

You have to expect she will kill at least one model of her choosing, more if she goes for small fry, that's her schtick,

She should get one assassination trigger (the last soulstone), everything else is what she picks up in her hand.

 

For her assassination trigger to be threatening it has to come towards the end of a turn, this is usually her first turn of engagement. Once she's in the thick of it she generally has to keep killing/moving to stay alive and this usually happens towards the begining of the turn, so assassination is less of a concern. Once she's swarmed she'll go down, she may Misdirection an attack or 2 but a volume of average attacks will kill her. Save a big attack on her for late in the turn and there shouldn't be anything she can do about it.

 

Deathtrout has already stated her combat weaknesses, Armor and Incorporeal, she relys on her plus flips to damage stuff. Outside of her 'big' turn her damage can be a bit average unless she has a good hand to dedicate to it.

 

Not sure I'd bother taking out Yu unless he's threatening some end game scheme shenanigans, Misaki outpaces him quickly and he's fairly costly in this set-up, 11 points of Misaki support for a couple of pushes and fast. That's 11 points not doing anything else. He's not much of a threat himself without a charge range, unless you rely on damage triggers for defence (he's a Colette killer for sure). I'd just take down Misaki. Def 6 is good but not unbeatable.

 

And Misaki hates Paralyse. Sensei Yu spent all his AP setting up Misaki only for her to be paralysed, that's a **.

 

The Arcanist Master I've found the most annoying to play against with Misaki is Raspy. Blasts templates, Paralyse, Armor, Sub Zero, models that damge you when they die, Slow. If you want to chill Misaki out take Raspy.

[MrDeathTrout]

Kadeton,

 

By getting her "stuck"  I mean "tar pit" her, or at least slow her down so you can counter attack.  I put that in quotes because with her Next Target and ability to kill just about anything she wants if she focuses, tar pitting her is next to impossible.  Some of this advice may just work well against me because of how I play her.  I'm pretty aggressive I often only take her cache stones into a game and burn through them quick so I get the free  on the attack.  I like having a 25% (or better) chance of Assassinate without cheating.  So a run of bad luck will get her killed the way I run her.  Its called Risk Ventures for a reason.  

 

In broad strokes

1) Watch your sight lines.  Yu and Misaki need LoS to Stalk.  There is no way to stop Misaki from stalking you once she lines up for her charge, but if she has to do her won stalking she can't use her (0) attack on you.  Also if Misaki needs to take a walk action to get into LoS that is one less AP for attacks.  The second one is harder with Yu's pushes, but if you can pull it off you've just reduced her from 5 potential attacks down to 3.

 

2) Buff her target.  I assuming she has an obvious target.  Defensive Stance, Df 6 from a Metal Gamin, some other buffs can make you a bit more survivable.  You still might not able able to survive, but if you can slow her down you might be able to counter attack.

 

3) Once she attacks do what you can to make her burn AP to kill you.  For those that can consider spending a SS on the Df flip.  That gives you   Df and them a   damage IIRC.  Then spend a SS to prevent damage.  If you slow her down enough you start making her take hard choices.  Do I get out or try to kill this guy with my last AP?  If you can reduce it to 0 damage on an attack she cannot use Next Target to push out of engagement.  If this happens on her last AP she is stuck.  Exposed to counter attacks and probably not going to benefit from Yu next turn.

 

4) Paralyze her.  I'm not that familiar with the anarchists, but if you can paralyze, root or pin (rail workers) her, she it next to useless for a turn.

 

In summary I don't have a good way to stop her cold.  But my first strat for dealing with her as much as you can and still get VP.  With her movement and Yu's pushes she can get just about anywhere in a turn, but that burns AP, makes her less effective and breaks the Yu combo.  Next would be slow her down, make her burn AP and take more risks.  If you can catch her exposed she usually isn't that hard to kill.  I think you just had either bad luck or your opponent had a lot of resources to keep her alive when charged by Miss Step if she shrugged it off like it was nothing.