Tapdancer Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Gavin based on the awards photos (and the other event pictures i have shared) my wife has decided you are the prettiest person playing malifaux. Not really a huge achievement given the competition but well done anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Where are these photos?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapdancer Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Where are these photos?! twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Dom/Alex get them up in here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Hill Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Best Sportsman - Gavin Holley   Best Painted Solomon Hill   Best Neverborn - Christopher McDonald   Best Ressurectionist - Michael "Jonah" Rees   Best Ten Thunders - Neil Harrison   Best Guild - Paul Butler   Best Arcanist - Martin Wodehouse   Best Outcast - Jimmy Balderstone   Wooden Spoon/Groot - Kristoffer Gordon   1st place - Martin Wodehouse   2nd Place - Paul Butler   3rd Place - Jimmy Balderstone  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Puppet Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Agree about bounty. Not sure if the reason for peons not scoring is to do with some masters having multiple peon totems, but it seems to play into certain factions/masters hands. I played against a Colette list with between 6-8 peons in it and although totally outplayed by my opponent for the schemes, I never felt I had a chance with the strategy from the start. Fair play to him, he even agreed it needed looking at, and he was playing within the rules, but it made me start looking at ways I could have done the same which isn't what the game should be about.  I know I'm very late to the party with this but I feel, as the Colette player in question, I should add my tuppence worth to the debate.  First, a quick note on Headhunter. I quite like this Strat but it can be frustrating for players that like to do their killing at range and the fact that you can pick up a marker that your opponent has done the work for makes you play differently. I do like the challenge of it though and Headhunter (round 4) was my toughest game of the weekend.  Bounty on the other hand is an issue. My Bounty list with Colette is very difficult for people to score from as it consists mostly of Peons. I think every time I've used it so far, I have won my game by at least 3 VPs and I find it quite hard to see how my opponents could have done any better. I probably lose around 60% - 70% of my models by turn 5 but don't give up any Bounty points for most them and even when I have given up points, I always scored more Bounty points back from my opponent due to the resources they have to commit. I don't know if this is a loophole, an oversite or actually deliberate in terms of the Strategy but I do think Colette excels at it with this crew build and if it creates NPE for people then it needs to be looked at. I actually used what I thought was the weaker of my two versions of this crew but even so, I had a massive advantage going into the game and, although Neil played well, there was little more he could have done to change the outcome.  There is, in my opinion, a realtively simple fix for this problem however: change the rule so that if a model is killed by a Peon, it doesn't score Bounty Points. It wouldn't take away all of the advantages that Colette has with this build but it would help mitigate the issue.  Of course, you could argue that the 'Don't be a dick' rule should come into play here. I would say that's subjective in this case but I am biased, so I'm interested to hear other's opinions on the matter.  Finally, thank you to all of my opponents for the weekend: Dafydd, Liam, Solomon, Michael (Jonah) and Neil.  Martin Wodehouse 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 OK, for some reason it's not letting me directly quote the bit that I want but the 'Don't be a dick rule' is nonsense here really. I enjoyed my game with you and I know that Neil did too. And I'm speaking a bit for him here (but we did discuss the game after) but he didn't feel it was a dick move/crew either. The way the strategy is scored encourages you to take lots of Peons and it's 100% a viable option in any game (let alone a top table tournament deciding game). Collette is hardly the only option for this even if she is a strong one (pig swarms would be equally frustrating). I think that the strategy itself is the problem, as Neil said to me after you can score for Peons for things like Make Them Suffer so you should be able to score for them in Bounty. That would mitigate against Peon swarms but not discourage people from taking them at all (especially with the having to be killed by an enemy rule meaning that Pigapults wouldn't be completely invalidated).  PS totally handed you that win in HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psientologist Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I'm not sure the Collect a Bounty comparison Make them Suffer makes sense. The theme of MtS is the big guys picking on the little ones and has multiple restrictions. Â It is interesting that the NPE acronym comes out for someone figuring a strong strategy in one of the new Strats. There are plenty of interesting ways that strats and/or schemes can be skewed via crew and vice versa, we've had that since M2E's launch, look at the typical "reckoning crew" as an example. Â Certain crews will also always have a benefit in certain strategies and schemes and this is why the game is faction based still in my eyes. General consensus for example pre-GG strats was Summoners are better at Recon. Â I feel people just need to learn. What I mean is if you are at a competitive event then as a player you should and will learn how best to tackle these strats/schemes/fixed crews etc. Â I'd also like to add that although Martin has said he wins by +3VP a lot due to the crew he was taking I think we're ignoring that for one, Martin is a top player and I'm not sure give anyone that crew they would have the same results. Also it's a just a small pool of results, maybe Martin hasn't faced someone who is good enough or knows how to counter the tactic. Â Hope this ramble makes some sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Puppet Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015  PS totally handed you that win in HH  You played a good game and only really made one mistake (with the positioning of the Necropunk on the roof). Once I had that HH point, you had a choice to make: gamble that I had taken Assassinate and run away to win 6-4 or assume that I had taken Bodyguard and would therefore likely win 7-6. It was a tough choice and, although ultimately the wrong one, I would probably have done the exact same thing had our positions been reversed.  I look forward to seeing you again at future events.  Cheers,  Martin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 You definitely make some good points Psientologist but I don't think that there's any other strategy/scheme that actively encourages you to take one specific build or makes that specific build that much better than anything else. We can discuss 'typical' Reckoning crews but they're not always the same. I for example have largely started ignoring Reckoning when it comes up and just picking my crew to ensure I can get the max 6VPs for my schemes and if I happen to pick up a point for Reckoning so be it (this is a little easier with Ressers I find though who are naturally hard to take down meaning taking down two in a turn requires a lot of AP). But with Bounty you can take a majority Peon list and almost completely negate your opponents ability to score any VPs from the strat at all. Though you can make it hard to score VPs from other strats it's hard to almost completely take away the ability to score from it at all. NPE was Martin's term, I'm not sure it's relevant in the same way that Brewmaster has been discussed as a NPE (or that I find playing against Pandora!).  HH was a good game, I gambled and lost! But it was also brought about by a very good Mech Rider bluff so it wasn't as it I'd just made the mistake completely of my own accord, I was lured into it by some good play (didn't stop me kicking myself after!). Definitely hoping for a re-match at a future event (unfortunately most of us will now not be making September's Curse (sorry Psientologist!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Does that particular Master (Colette) skew the Strategy? Because the usual Peon restrictions mean Interacting schemes/scheme markers would be heavily reliant on the few models that are significant, so an opponent would look to take those out to deny schemes and complete their own (if they can't collect the bounty). I'm not clued up on Colette so I don't know if she does get around that.  Collect the Bounty often sees me turning my Master into a Peon (via Madame Sybelle) so that my opponent doesn't score off one of my best models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake of Godzilla Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Does that particular Master (Colette) skew the Strategy? Because the usual Peon restrictions mean Interacting schemes/scheme markers would be heavily reliant on the few models that are significant, so an opponent would look to take those out to deny schemes and complete their own (if they can't collect the bounty). I'm not clued up on Colette so I don't know if she does get around that.  Collect the Bounty often sees me turning my Master into a Peon (via Madame Sybelle) so that my opponent doesn't score off one of my best models.  Just on this tactic of Sybelle, I'm not sure that works. All you've done is added the Peon Characteristic to the master, not removed the Master key word. Surely they then just score Master Points + Peon points (i.e. zero) when they are killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Sybelle's Trigger specifically states that you count as a Peon for Encounter purposes so definitely works.  Collette is very good at anything scheme marker based as she has lots of just 'place' scheme marker tricks. But even outside of Collette access to lots of Peons and then a couple of very difficult to kill things to accomplish schemes isn't that hard to do (or take schemes that don't involve interacts). Fluff wise the MtS comparison might be different but I don't think that's a good reason to justify not having Peons count for scoring in CtB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Puppet Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Does that particular Master (Colette) skew the Strategy? Because the usual Peon restrictions mean Interacting schemes/scheme markers would be heavily reliant on the few models that are significant, so an opponent would look to take those out to deny schemes and complete their own (if they can't collect the bounty). I'm not clued up on Colette so I don't know if she does get around that. Â The Showgirl upgrade 'Practiced Production' gets around that for the most part. It does depend on the Scheme Pool to an extent but A Line in the Sand is always available. ;0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I don't know what Martin took, but peons are normally very bad as its hard to use them to get points. Prior to collect the bounty, it was probably rare for lists to have more than 1 peon in them, so this has at least made people play quite a different game, and encouraged the use of different models. Â Are there many feasable high peon lists that will allow you to still score scheme points and kill opponents? I don't know, i would ahve said that you would have needed a reasonable number of minions or better. When peopel talk about Collect the bounty, they do go for biggr pointed minions, ratehr than a similary costed enforcer or Henchman as it will giev up fewer points. Just like in Reckoning, most people seem to buiild crews with very few models to try and deny the 2 kills a turn. Â I can't think of many ways for Colette to get Peons to drop scheme markers. there is practised production, that basically moves 1, but most of her tricks I can think of make interacts easier. Kaeris, Cassandra and wings of fire might be even more annoying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Puppet Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 There are two versions of my Collect the Bounty crew with Colette. The one I used at Deliverance was:  Colette with Cabaret Choreography and practiced Production 2 Coryphee 2 Performers 2 Mannequins 3 Raptors Mobile Toolkit  I had 8 Scheme Markers on the table by the end of turn 1, most of them around the halfway line. With a Raptor popping up behind terrain in my opponent's Deployment Zone, Breakthrough was easy (via Practiced Prodcution). With summoning Doves as well, I had massive activation control and all I had to do was throw Peons at the enemy models and then use Colette and/or the Coryphee to pick on the weakened ones to score the Bounty points with their crazy movement.  The Performers were there to entice enemy models in and also remove any scheme markers he was able to drop for schemes. The other version of the crew swaps the Performers out for the Mech Rider. She then summons in more Mannequins and also Electrical Creations which instantly explode when they activate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 One thing I think it's important to note is that Strategies (and Schemes) should be directly encouraging players to build different kinds of lists. That's a really core part of the point of having them in the first place. Â The objectives of the game should form a puzzle for players to solve. Â Since back in 1st edition it's been possible for players to effectively win/lose games during crew selection and I don't really see a problem with that in and of itself. Â That said if a single crew build is effectively unbeatable at any given strategy that may be an issue. I'm not sure if that's where we are here or not. Â It was mentioned above about scheme pools and 'smoothing them out' during events to stop the same objectives reoccurring too often. Â IMO this brings in TO's biases (unintentional or otherwise) and becomes a slippery slope. I'd much rather see the schemes generated randomly and published ahead of events so players have a bit more time to solve tough combinations and avoid turning up with crews which cannot compete. Â All IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Puppet Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I don't know if it's unbeatable but I've yet to lose a Bounty game with either version. Dreamer (run by Andy Winton) has come closest to beating it so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Pfh. I could take it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Puppet Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I'm happy to be proven wrong on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Hang on. Need to wash my hair instead. Sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I'd like to play it for sure sometime Martin. It would definitely be challenging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I'm happy to be proven wrong on this... It doesn't look unbeatable, but may well force opponents to haev to chaneg their game plan once they see it. Â Hope I get a try against it soempoint soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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