viks, turf war, close deployment

[EntrepeNinja]

Yeah, I'm just trying to think outside the box. I have to hope that there's more than one solution in a faction to a given tactic. 

 

For instance, if my opponent ever announces Outcasts, and I supposed to declare Raspy on the chance they play Viks? Or do I just build a crew that can do the schemes and stratagies, then deal with the 5 min damage WW cluster bomb that is Blood Vik (Pokey, Hench, whatever you call her. )

 

With the ironsides with Imbued protection, she may be able to weather the storm- with her full cache she'll want to prevent every hit which will take away 4-12 of that damage, and she can discard I.P. to prevent an extra two- if she's getting nice shot my turn in with every hit (Either by cheating or by flipping it honestly). She has a chance, though not a great one. 

 

Meh. Viks are an interesting kettle of fish to me. After wave one was up I felt like they were missing something, but now that wave to is out and done, it feels like they've got too much. Too many ways to get their crazy buffs without having to take the time to cast them themselves or something. Four attacks at min damage 5 CB7 paired plus to damage... Guh. 

[MasterDisaster]

Could be Ml 8 if Blood uses her 2nd (0) action "Falling Star" and stays within 2" of another Sister.... Just saying 

 

In answer to your question I don't think you need to worry about the Viks all that much. As you suggested I personally would go with a crew that is optimized towards my chosen objectives and deal with the Viks as best as I could given the crew I'd put together. If you face the brand of punishment that the Viks often dish out then take it in your stride and deal with it as best you can. If they chose a different Outcast Master, same thing applies. Focus on the Strategy and Schemes, everything else is secondary really. Plenty of Arcanist Masters have the tools to deal with a 7 Wd Henchman/Master and if they do go down the road of Uber-buff then you may luck out and find that Ash Vik doesn't have Survivalist then she's just another glass cannon. 

[Sholto]

Against Viks, all the Arcanist heavy hitters are going to die in short order, either to the Viks themselves ignoring Armor etc or to their Relic Hammer-wielding pals. Your only solution to that is to rely on winning Initiative, which is not a solution at all.

 

Instead, why not Ramos with 6 Spiders and 3 Electrical Creations? Gum up all their charge lanes, drown them in 4pt models that can be exploded or explode when they die, while Ramos shoots into melee with Electrical Fire, Summons more of everything and cackles like a maniac. You could also take Silent Ones who can shoot into Melee, safe behind the spider screen. Maybe a Mech Rider summoning Ice Gamin to do more exploding - the Spiders will ignore the pulses. Everything else can get Schemes, so Soulstone Miners would be good.

[Uktena]

Imbued Energies on a Sabertooth Cerberus. Leap into combat, and go bananas.

[MasterDisaster]

Marcus and his Beasties should actually put down a lot of hurt if they get the chance. 

[zFiend]

Marcus and his Beasties should actually put down a lot of hurt if they get the chance.

I love it that there's the if they get the chance clause. Because that's what it's about, if they get a chance.

[Myyrä]

Against Viks, all the Arcanist heavy hitters are going to die in short order, either to the Viks themselves ignoring Armor etc or to their Relic Hammer-wielding pals. Your only solution to that is to rely on winning Initiative, which is not a solution at all.

Relying on winning the initiative is better plan for arcanists than most factions. Seize the day means that you win pretty much 2/3 of the initiative flips.

[zFiend]

Meh. Viks are an interesting kettle of fish to me. After wave one was up I felt like they were missing something, but now that wave to is out and done, it feels like they've got too much. Too many ways to get their crazy buffs without having to take the time to cast them themselves or something. Four attacks at min damage 5 CB7 paired plus to damage... Guh.

Right! See I'm not the only one.

[Kadeton]

 

There isn't much that can take 4 attacks from the Blood Vik who hits reliably and often with a Min Damage of 5 Ignoring pretty much every form of defensive ability. Ash Vik sets up Blood nicely using Sisters in Spirit, buffs the crap out of her with Sisters in Battle and Sisters in Fury. Blood Vik then thoroughly buffed drops her Oathkeeper, Activates the Lonely Path and runs in to utterly destroy everything in her wake which wont be too hard considering she has a horrendous 10" threat range whilst packing 5/6/8 Dmg track that comes with    to both Attack and Damage AND can use SS for the Whirlwind Trigger over the course of 4 attacks ALL ignoring Armour, HtK, HtW and Incorporeal.... Ironsides be dead *nods* 

 

Sure, if you've never seen the Viks before and have no idea what they do, that's almost certainly how it would go.

 

The Viks are right up there in the top tier of Masters, but the scenario you're suggesting not only carries a genuine risk of failure (a Black Joker on any flip can mean Ironsides lives through it, and you'll be flipping a ton of cards), it leaves both Viks high and dry, in the open, probably with no high cards left in hand and some damage on Blood, and likely down a few stones to avoid being killed by Good Shot, My Turn. A counter-punch from any of the Arcanist hitters (Joss or Howard in particular, but basically anyone in range will do) will easily kill Ashes, and now all you've achieved is trading Master for Master (Blood loses a lot of her scariness once Ashes is dead, plus she's just as fragile and she's sitting right there in easy range of your crew).

 

Your scenario also assumes that Ashes is sitting about 10" away from Ironsides at the start of her activation, unengaged, with a clear charge lane between them. Why did the Arcanist player let themselves get into that horrible position? They've clearly been outplayed, so the Outcast player probably deserves to win.

 

To make a Viks punch like that work, you need to be damn sure you're going to get a net benefit out of it. For me, that generally means a practically guaranteed kill on at least two high-value targets (or one high-value target and a bunch of little stuff), and holding the Black Joker in hand for safety. Once you know what to expect from the Viks, it's relatively easy to set up your crew to avoid presenting juicy targets. Force the Viks to choose between two targets, let whichever one they choose go down, then kill at least one of them in retaliation.

 

I should really get around to writing that Viks tactica. Most people are either way too scared of them or nowhere near scared of them enough.

[zFiend]

Kadeton you should really. Title should be "how to kill the goddamn filthy ladies of the night with ease the non-rotten Belle tactica".

[MasterDisaster]

Kadeton you are completely right, the Viks being buffed to those level's of craziness is incredibly specific but that is just the worst case scenario and is fairly resource intensive. They are still more than capable of pulling of tricks like this from further away than 10" with less buffs and more safety. Even with just Sister's in Fury and (0) The Lonely Path Blood can be devastating. Personally though I don't use Sisters in Fury very often with my Viks, haven't really needed it in the past. I was just saying how bad it "could" get although it often doesn't get quite that bad. 

[EntrepeNinja]

I think i'm going to need to put the viks on the table- not to spread the filth, but to learn the weaknesses. Many a podcast has talked about how filthy something seems when you're looking at it from the other side of the table, that then becomes more manageable when you see the order of activations, and the resource intensiveness of it all. 

 

ENinja