Twirling with a gas can + Purifying Fire

[Jordon]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned on here but I was wondering with how TWAGC is worded and Kaeris' purifying fire ability. Would this allow a friendly model to heal +2 damage when resolving the burning condition and also being "covered in gas"? My gut feeling is no, but it can be a little confusing with how TWAGC is worded. 

 

 

Covered in Gas: When this model suffers damage from the Burning Condition, it suffers +2 damage.

 

Purifying Fire: Friendly models within a6 do not suffer damage from the Burning Condition. Instead, they heal that amount of damage. 

 

 

 

[mythicFOX]

<MOD HAT>

 

Moved to the Rules Discussion section.  

 

Carry on.

 

</MOD HAT>

[mythicFOX]

For the discussion it's worth keeping in mind that you've quoted the Purifying Fire wording from the old PDF, and the ability was reworded for the final printing;
 

Friendly models within  6 do not suffer damage from the Burning Condition. Instead, they heal that amount of damage. Models which are Immune to Burning or otherwise reduce the damage to 0 may not heal in this way.

 

This re-word appeared in the July FAQ & Errata document, but is not in the September document. Presumably because all the printed cards are correct.

[Seregon]

I would say that since the model within 6 heals instead of suffer damage from burning, Covered in Gas will not trigger.

 

Only if you actually deal damage will it trigger and then give an additional +2 damage (which in my mind counts as additional burning damage since it's "+2 damage" and not "2 damage")

[Kadeton]

I would read it such that "that amount of damage" is equal to Burning + 2. Essentially, Purifying Fire should be healing you for whatever damage you would have taken normally.

If it said "Instead, models heal an amount of damage equal to their Burning Condition value", then it clearly wouldn't come into effect.

[mythicFOX]

I can read this both ways.

 

Worth remembering however this works will create a similar effect re models with Armor. If armor reduces the healing the ability becomes (IMHO) a lot worse.

[Kadeton]

Hmm, not sure I'd expect armor to affect it based on current wording. However, you raise a good point - having Gas Can affect it but Armor not is having your cake and eating it too.

I'd be interested in a clarification. It might knock Kaeris out of the 'best healer in the game' title.

[Durza]

Well Gremlins dumb luck hits them for the full effect, so I'd say they'd get the extra 2 healing.

[rgarbonzo]

Seems rather clear to me that you do not suffer damage from the aura of Purifying Fire, you heal instead. Since you are not suffering damage you do not get the extra from the gas can.

[Jordon]

I think my issue is in the order of operations. 

 

Burning damage -> Purifying Fire -> Covered in Gas

 

or 

 

Burning damage -> Covered in Gas -> Purifying Fire

 

I definitely think in the first example, it's pretty clear that purifying fire prevents fire damage and thus no CIG. But I can also read it the other way in that you would suffer fire damage, in which you would suffer +2 for CIG, but then purifying fire would kick in and allowing you to heal that damage instead.

 

Its just that the wording has the potential to be interpreted differently and might need a clarification. 

[rgarbonzo]

Actually I see the interactions as Burning Damage, check to see if in , if yes then no damage heal instead, if no then check for CIG, resolve as normal

[hypoking]

They're both passive abilities that modify how burning is resolved. Considering they do the same thing in that sense the controlling player should get to say what order they're layered in.

 

Edit: As covered in gas is a condition on the model and purifying flame is a, most of the time, external aura, the gas would have to be resolved 1st pursuant to the general timing rules. So yeah, damage would get spiked by the condition which would then get converted to healing by Kaeris. Abilities on a model, and I'm assuming those include conditions, are resolved before abilities on other models come into effect.

[Bengt]

They're both passive abilities that modify how burning is resolved. Considering they do the same thing in that sense the controlling player should get to say what order they're layered in.

 

Edit: As covered in gas is a condition on the model and purifying flame is a, most of the time, external aura, the gas would have to be resolved 1st pursuant to the general timing rules. So yeah, damage would get spiked by the condition which would then get converted to healing by Kaeris. Abilities on a model, and I'm assuming those include conditions, are resolved before abilities on other models come into effect.

General timing only makes a difference between models that are performing an action or being the target of an action and "other" models. So if we are taking burning in the upkeep step no one is performing an action and they are all "other" and controller decides the order.

 

If a Condition is supposed to have the same priority as an Ability is not entirely clear though, but it's more like an Ability than a Trigger so I assume so.

[Carse]

Purifying fire specifically says you do not suffer damage, and covered in gas says when you suffer damage from burning. So if you do not suffer damage from burning you can't trigger an ability that activates when you suffer damage from burning.

[Matney X]

In any case, the +2 damage ISN'T Burning damage -- it's generic, non-type-specific damage.  That damage is simply triggered by the Burning condition.  Burning +1 doesn't become Burning +3, it becomes Burning +1 (+2 generic damage).  It could be read that the model heals the Burning amount then takes +2 damage.

[Sholto]

I think Matney X has it.

[Seregon]

I would probably say that it IS actually burning damage suffered from the gas can since it's "suffers +2 damage". If it was generic damage it would (probably) say "suffers 2 damage".

[rgarbonzo]

CIG works similarly to Sebastians Induction, where if you take x damage you take +2 damage. With Induction if you SS and prevent then you do not gain the extra +2 because you have not suffered any damage, therefore if you are healing damage instead of suffering damage then CIG won't work.