Starting up a Kirai crew, hints, tips, and builds?

[jonahmaul]

Two summoners in a 30SS game sounds upsetting!

[EntrepeNinja]

I think Toshiro will be amazing depending on your opponent. Another ressur or a arcanist or other scrap user, and he's going to give you an amazing ability to deny resources. No doubt Izamu has more direct synergy with the crew, but being able to a) deny corpse and scrap to resource dependent crews, summon a spirit model that's both survivable and synergistic, and/or c) an undead model that both has offensive defenses and can be used to bring forth the Ikiryo, can make him pretty worth it. 

 

Izamu is the fast ball. Toshiro is the slider.

 

ENinja

[Vile the mad]

Also has anyone used a yin or rogue necro with "take back the night" with kirai yet?

[Da Git]

I've tried Take Back the Night on the Rogue Necromancy and loved it! I burn though a lot of cards very quickly with Kirai as she still has quite a few uses for low cards so any card draw is fantastic for me.

I like the Rogue Necromancy as it can fairly reliably put out poison from range early game so my summoned Shikome can charge for a 1action. It's also height 3, so it's auras are better.

Although Yin is also fantastic with spirits put gnawing fear on anything and it will die! She can also hand out poison but only in combat so not as good in the early game.

[hypoking]

Build I've been messing with

 

Resurrectionists Crew - 50 - Scrap

Kirai Ankoku -- 5 Pool
 +Spirit Beacon [1]
 +Swirling Aether [2]
 +Unforgiven [2]

Graveyard Spirit [3]
Canine Remains [4]
Datsue Ba [8]
 +Spirit Whispers [1]
Flesh Construct [6]
Flesh Construct [6]
Nurse [5]
Rotten Belle [5]
Rotten Belle [5]

[Bengt]

All the lists suggested so far contain a bunch of zombies. Now as far as I'm concerned zombies had outstayed their welcome in popular culture around 1978, so if I were to play Kirai it would be without any zombies. My question is, do you seriously handicap yourself if you leave out the zombies?

[hypoking]

One of the best parts of playing ressers is access to some of the best rank and file mooks in the game. It's right up there with practically every master being able to take a semi truck to the face and laugh it off. You could play with just spirits, but Kirai's summon tends to benefit from having a few wound banks lying around and most of those tend to be undead or living. Not to mention you would be missing out on plenty of opportunities for Ikiryo abuse.

 

Its not like you wouldn't be playing with spirits, those bastards show up inevitably, its just that you don't start with so many of them on the table.

[Clement]

Just make sure that even if you go big on spirits that a good number of them are also undead (the more expensive spirits mostly). The little crappy spirits can't get Ikiryo into play.

[Bengt]

I'm not swearing of everything but spirits, just anything that looks like a zombie since I can't seem myself ever painting those. So things like Bête, Yin, Nurse or Ashigaru are fair game. Anyway, Ikiryo seems to be covered by all the larger models I might use. For summoning, is it hideously inefficient to use Seishin as targets? 

[EntrepeNinja]

See, I agree with all sides- meaning I think there has to be a happy medium. You need enough meat to summon off of, and enough spirits to synergize off of. If you can't swirl or benefit from adversary effectively until turn 3, then you're missing out on one of the best parts of the kirai crew.

 

However, if you're only summoning off of other spirits (who are typically low health models to begin with) you're short changing yourself from a high card to active models summoned standpoint.

 

That's why Izamu is so good, he's an undead spirit with decent wounds. He can be used as a summon battery. He can be healed up by any number of spirit only heals, he can be swirled right off the bad and play havoc with ranged attackers and get to make 3 attacks because of it. He can be used to get Ikiryo on the table, and he gets buffs from adversary and other spirit only buffs.

 

I think that's the same reason I love Toshiro in this crew- Kirai doesn't generate corpse and scrap markers herself, but obliquely through killing models that drop them. She also doesn't USE them. So (unless you're fighting against a spirit molly, or a hamelin, or the like) you could be using those corpse/scrap for something else- specifically summoning with Toshiro. Either a good undead model (which can either be used to summon a better spirit from kirai, or an ikiryo through malevolence), or a Komainu (an awesome construct who's also a spirit for more buffs). 

 

I don't think that a full crew of undead models are the way to go- you end up spending all your time and cards summoning high cost spirits, or giving up the one thing that Kirai really brings to the table. That being said, the can (and do) bring something to a Kirai crew that is quite useful. 

 

In conclusion, AltheZombie and Rancor said it best. "Summoning is a Trap."

 

What I think they meant (now, with hindsight and a lot more m2e games under my belt), is that if you're spending all your time and cards summoning, your master isn't getting to do anything but summon, and all your high cards have gone to making models that will now die because they have no wounds. Summon when summoning is effective. Position and attack when it isn't. Focus on your schemes and strats, and not on making a trick work. Unless your last name is DuBois, it's a fight, not a performance.

 

ENinja

[EnternalVoid]

For summoning, is it hideously inefficient to use Seishin as targets? 

 

Yes and No.  Yes in the regard that it is a cheap summon that you just threw out generally as a (0) action and not a model you had to pay for.  No in the regard that it will kill the Seishin will die every time and it can have other uses.  I have rather liked the thought of having a flesh construct for summoning as it can heal a little on its own over time and has enough wounds to soak several summons, while doing this any summoned Seishin can be used as cheap activations to out activate and can be used to heal the newly summoned spirit rather than merely used to summon.  Now I can understand some people wanting to say with the spirit theme if theme is important to them.  But even fluff wise she is accociated to Nico, he could easily lend her a Flesh Construct if he knows that her summoning comes at a price.  It would be a small price to him to have her not get killed to easily.

[EntrepeNinja]

You can also use the seishin as a sacrifice to increase your casting- letting you get off better summons with worse cards. (Hanged on an 11up? Yes plz.)

 

I would say Seishin are one of the weaker choices, as they can help in so many other ways. It's why a meaty model like a Toshiro, a flesh construct, or a Izamu run so well- though you can also use Gaki or Night Terrors who are easy summons as reservoirs for Shikome or Hanged later. 

[DeleteAccount]

Recently gotten back into the Kirai bus and feeling that Spirit Beacon on her is pretty much a must to let her survive when pawning wounds onto seishin and simply because she tends to be in range to get new Seishin because of how much of a control tower she is.

 

I've mostly used Seishin to summon my stuff, but I've noticed the horrible drain that it is to my hand, so considering heavily bringing at least a flesh construct to have something that can go forward, take some pain and be used as a beacon. Would also free up the Seishin to heal summoned and wounded models instead of just being immediate fodder, but have to play her more.

 

Been having problem using Sundering for setup though it again comes back to depleted hands which is my biggest problem constantly, since most times she misses (though had an awesome red joker hit though that got me a Gaki out of the deal when shooting with - for the lols yesterday). The upgrade load-out I'm currently using is Spirit Beacon, Swirling Aether (love the heal, but again, card drain) and Bloody Shears (YES DA GIT, BLOODY SHEARS!), though for the accomplice which I end up always missing more than the extra summon range or damage, never used her Ml attack yet though the Cg will be useful once the avatar comes out.

 

But as always, I'm choking on lack of cards, so spirit absorb is tempting, but I have a harder time keeping a spirit beacon on non Kirai models and she is the best one at taking hits to keep her alive and I really like the option of teleporting as a 0 action.

 

Another model I'm looking at constantly is Phillip thanks to his way to get cards from friendly scheme markers, should combo well with a couple of crooligans and he can Take Back the Night, which I tried yesterday, but first game forgot about it (and had me completely in control), and second, was just not managing to seal the deal outside of Kirai who doesn't count.

[Da Git]

 

The upgrade load-out I'm currently using is Spirit Beacon, Swirling Aether (love the heal, but again, card drain) and Bloody Shears (YES DA GIT, BLOODY SHEARS!), though for the accomplice which I end up always missing more than the extra summon range or damage, never used her Ml attack yet though the Cg will be useful once the avatar comes out.

 

 

 

It was only a matter of time till you came around mate!!

 

Bloody Shears & Swirling are my standard upgrades & if the Avatar stays the same that will be my third (these just complement my style of play with Kirai beautifully.

 

I like Take back the Night on the Rogue as it has a nice Ht3 for it's aura (in the last game I played against Jack Daw, all the aura's had very little effect because models kept getting in the way to blok LoS.

 

As for summoning.  I usually bring out 2 Shikome & leave it at that.  Although I might also summon a Gaki or Onryo, have a Nurse heal & parylize it for the Sacrificial manifestation...

[DeleteAccount]

It's all about accomplice, the shears have nothing to do with it! NOTHING!

 

Ehem, I do like to summon small spirits, mostly Onryo since I consider them awesome fire and forget summons to jam in the middle of the enemy formation for slow and Adversary shenanigans and summoning a night Terror with 2 Wd is enough to get a 2 AP distraction on the cheap. I do forget too many times about being able to blow a spirit to increase my Ca total though, which would speed up me getting shikome and hanged on the table. OK, so outside of summoning, what do you do with Kirai then? And no avatar talk, till those are printed I'm not getting my hopes up, I do a swirl, but that is mostly a once per turn thing and not for every turn, I love the heal, but really eats the hand quickly and well, Sundering is a lot of times an option, though like stated, haven't been too lucky with it and hoarding the high cards for the summons tends to leave it imprecise (I mean, do I blow a 13 to get  a Gaki out of a dead guy or do I save it to get a Hanged?).

 

Also, how do people consider Drowned? Cheapest summon that triggers the Ikiryo and fantastic at gumming up Ml crews. Could be used from the start even if they aren't that much of a wd basket. And also, nobody really considered a Crooligan and Phillip module where they move up the baord placing scheme markers to feed Phillip's hand rotation tricks? Oh right, bloody from the shadows stops them from doing it turn 1...

[Da Git]

What do I do with Kirai??  Not actually a whole lot... (hopefully this comes out right!)

 

She's not the center of the show (like a lot of other masters out there), however she can do a bit of everything... shoot, cut people up, summon, movement, heal.  I'll summerise what she did in my last game.  (using the current Avatar rules, really hope they stay!)

T1 summoned Seishin,Spirit worlded to it, swirled it with Izamu, summoned a Shikome, healed it a tad

T2 summoned Seishin,Spirit worlded to it, shot a The Hanged that was sown to 2 wds, summoned a Gaki, turned it into a second Shikome, got into prime Malevelnce position.  Got Ikiryo out this turn.

T3 Avatared (after Ikiryo had died) swirled over to a Shikome & ate a Guilty.

 

Basically although she didn't actually do much she was the lynchpin of the crew, putting them where needed to do the most damage & threateneing with the Ikiryo.  Even without the Avatar not too much would be different (although losing Instinctual would really suck!)

[hypoking]

OK, so outside of summoning, what do you do with Kirai then?

 

See, this is why I like Unforgiven + Swirling Aether. Combination turns Kirai into the happy middle ground between Nicodem and Perdita. If you don't want to summon you can port into position next to a seishen and proceed to pump three damage minimums into whatever catches your fancy with long range, non randomizing, ca 6/8 attacks.

[EntrepeNinja]

What I'm hearing is, "Kirai has multiple, effective styles of play, that can suit multiple schemes, strategies, or playstyles". And that makes me giddy.

 

I'm very excited to start putting this crew on the table, now that their based. Gotta start painting!

 

ENinja

[DeleteAccount]

 

 

See, this is why I like Unforgiven + Swirling Aether. Combination turns Kirai into the happy middle ground between Nicodem and Perdita. If you don't want to summon you can port into position next to a seishen and proceed to pump three damage minimums into whatever catches your fancy with long range, non randomizing, ca 6/8 attacks.

 

True, but by god if Swirl plus accomplice doesn't let you do very nasty one two punches of Kirai sundering for adversary, setting up Izamu and letting him go in instantly. But yeah, Entrepeninja has the gist of it, she can viable play with various styles.

 

Now question to those who have played more with kirai, I'm really liking Seishin Beacon on her and believe it increases her resilience by a ton, do other see it the same way or just use distance to keep her out of trouble? Though being too far away eats into Ikiryo chances...

[hypoking]

Oh, I am certainly tempted by accomplice. Half the fun realy, having different viable starts to choose from.

 

I know a guy who swears by putting beacon on Izamu, but I like putting it on Kirai. With her defensive trigger, beacon gives her the full resser package in terms of survivability.

[EntrepeNinja]

See, I like the concept of putting it on Izamu for the following reasons:

 

It gives you three separate sources for Seishin- Kirai Summons, Datue Ba Summons and spells, and Models dying near Izamu. If Izamu can net you a Seishin up front, then you can summon a seishin (0 action), Summon a model off that seishin, or using the seishin to boost your casting or whatever you need, then swirl it up to that other seishin leaving you with a seishin to either push damage onto, or sac/summon off later. 

 

There are good reasons to have seishin everywhere, so having them able to spring up from three different spots can be helpful. 

[DeleteAccount]

My issue with spirit Beacon Izamu is mostly that he tends to be in the nastiest of places, so he can easily die turn 2-3. I also tend to favor Decaying Aura just to put the fear of god on enemy henchman or Master since there is always the very real risk of getting him swirled into their face.

[Stadon]

I tend to try to have a Night Terror nearby to eat the redirected attacks.  With their incorporeality and hard to kill, they sure can take a beating, and can trigger Spirit Beacon.  Another solid Of Pity and Wind option is the drowned , as they can reduce damage from melee attacks and trigger Malevolence.  Really, the long and short of it is that it is just unwise to target Kirai.  At best nothing will happen to her, at worst you get an Ikiryo in the face.

[hypoking]

Cautionary note here that Wong, Raspy, and Sonia have a special way of nuking down masters reliant on shunting damage or fancy triggers. Yeah though, there are scant few models that pose a lethal threat to Kirai sitting next to a seishen and holding a few masks and/or stones.

[DeleteAccount]

Oh, never thought of the Drowned as pain piñatas, taking note of that one. Also, already faced that tale once against Misaki who was spamming thunder on a poor night terror and it's Df crap. Didn't take down Kirai, but it hurt like the devil for sure.