Ramos Help

[pyro gremlin]

So guys just starting malifaux up again and got 2 crews currently and have just ordered the new Ramos ME2 box and im really unsure what to get next to back a good 35 and 50ss list anyone got any advce what to have in it? Any help is appreciated

[Dracomax]

You are going to want 3-6 more spiders, And probably an electric construct. I'd recommend playing at a box list for a couple of games to get the hang of him and his summoning, too. His box is finde for a 50 point game, but you really want the spiders for summoning if you are going to do that.

 

Any arcanist constructs will work well with him, but spedial mention goes to the Coryphee, the Mechanical Rider, and the Rail Golem.

 

Johan is definitely a good pick for him as well.

[MR TORGUE]

As dracomax said; spiders are Ramos' thing. Prob good to grab two boxes of spiders, maybe three.

Metal gamin are cool too; armour 2 and hard to kill is so frustrating to shift and they drop scrap at death. This combined with bleeding edge tech makes them insane!

[DavicusPrime]

Ramos was my first master and I was having trouble with him back in 1.5 due to the relatively slow movement speeds and lack of ranged attacks in his crew.  With M2E it's gotten a lot better but I'm still just starting out on the learning curve.

 

You're going to want 1-2 Electrical Creations and 1-2 additional boxes of spiders (I have three but magnetized them so I can put them on the table as any combination of 9 singles or 3 swarms if I didn't model them that way, I'd have a minimum of 4, 2 swarms and 6 singles). 

 

Summoning is powerful, but I just can't seem to get things to work as often as I like. 

 

1st issue, you need scrap markers on the table.  That means something has to die that has the construct attribute or via one of your crew's special abilities (Joss' creative salvage for example).  My current way of getting that first scrap counter is by either summoning (requires an Upgrade) or hiring an Electrical Creation.  They take a point of damage each time they activate and they only have 3 wounds.  Zap it with Ramos' ranged hit, especially if you can get the EC next to an enemy so their explosive demise can be put to good use.  It dies, explodes and drops a scrap.  Since M2E, EC's aren't rare 1 anymore, so you can pump them out once a turn (the summon is a 0 action but requires the right cards so not fool proof) so a second model becomes a potentially useful investment.  EC's also have the ability to cause damage just by ending a turn in Base-2-Base, if they die, they inflict 2 wounds to everything too close, and if they survive, you can detonate them to cause 3 damage but won't leave scrap.

 

2nd Issue, you need a high   in your hand and have a soul stone to maximize the quantity of spiders summoned off of a single scrap counter.  This is where my control hand hasn't played along.  I've ended up having to summon just one or two at a time which always feels lame, especially when I'm hurting to find scrap counters.

 

I've recently started using Metal Gamin and they are very good at helping out your defensive game, I still need to look at how to use them in a more offensive manner.  They've been very good at keeping Ramos from getting chewed up early in the game.  Boosting Ramos' Defense to 6 and acting as a road block which lets Ramos utilize his ranged attack (that does not randomize) makes these little dudes quite useful.

 

I have a Rail Golem on order so can't speak to that yet.  And I've not really included any of the Wave 2 models aside from a single gunsmith (needed more ways to inflict burning to make them really shine).  I have the models for the Large Arachnid, Kaeris, gunsmith x2 and fire Gamin x6 but haven't put them on the table yet.  I'm looking forward to testing them all out soon.

 

-DavicusPrime

[Fenton Crack]

I would second picking up an EC, and some Metal Gamin.

I rarely need more than one EC because I can usually not spare the upgrade slot for EC summoning, and don't like to burn my 0 action or any cards or stones on the summoning.

I will concentrate on summoning spiders, and then mag a weak one with Ramos, or with a Metal Gamin if one is hanging around to buff Ramos' defense, to keep close scrap, and usually depend on Joss to build me scrap upfield.

As far as great objective runners, Union Miners are a great choice for there marker tossing, but I've had great success with Molemen, which are cheap and surprisingly survivable most games.

The Soulstone Miner has also always seemed to be worth his stones in my games gotvobjevtive running. His biggest strengths though can be in Reconnoiter, where Ranos does not really need the help, but he runs other schemes and strats well too.

Rail Golem has been too unpredictable for me, sometimes dying before doing enough killing. It could be, of course, but I've heard others having even a great performance, or flub, but rarely in between.

[pyro gremlin]

So got 2 lists written out now but no idea if there any good feel free to chamge them if wrong

 

Ramos

Brass Arachnid - 4

Howard Langston - 12

Joss - 10

Mechanical Rider - 12

Steam Arachnid - 4

Steam Arachnid - 4

Steam Arachnid - 4

 

Or i have this list

 

Ramos

Brass Arachnid - 4

Howard Langston - 12

Large Arachnid - 6

Large Arachnid - 6

Steam Arachnid Swarm - 8

Steam Arachnid - 4

Steam Arachnid - 4

Steam Arachnid - 4

 

Both are 50ss lists so any improvements will be appreciated

[Fenton Crack]

You might want to consider getting rid of at least two Steam Arachnids from each list to start.  Since you will likely be making two to three per turn, I find buying them with stones is not very efficient.

 

Also consider you source of scrap.  Usually an Electrical Creation, via the "Mythic Fox" opening, or taking a "Moble Toolkit" at three stones, are models taken to sacrifice for Scrap turn one.  You could sacrifice a spider the same way of course, but then you don't get the free move form magging the EC and if you re killing a spider its a stone more than the MT costs.

 

You also do not have any upgrades.  Ramos himself will often want Bleeding Edge Tech to be healing the wounded, newly minted spiders.  Arcane Reservoir is also great for having the +1 to your control hand.  You could take also consider taking Electric Summoning to make EC's to feed yourself Scrap, but I would usually recommend the third slot Field Generator  or Combat Mechanic.

 

As far as Joss or Howard, both greatly benefit from Imbued Energies to give them Fast.

 

Do not forget to take more than the minimum cache of SS as well, as you will need to spend one every time you attempt to summon three spiders, and sometimes even when summoning two if you hand is bad, not to mention needing them for Damage prevention for Joss

[pyro gremlin]

Sweet cheers for the tips dude gonna start rewriting the lists out now 

[MasterDisaster]

It's ALWAYS a bad idea to pre-build a list, you should build your list to suit the schemes and strategy available. 

[DavicusPrime]

I agree that a fixed list is usually a bad idea, having examples of lists that work well together that can be tweaked to fit the scheme/strat mix is really helpful to folks that are new to the game or to a particular master/faction.

-DavicusPrime

[pyro gremlin]

Awww right so as im a new player to the 2nd edition of malifaux wouldnit be best just to buy the stuff i think will work well together and tweak round where needed?

[DavicusPrime]

Pretty much, yes.

 

When I got into the game back in 2012, I picked Ramos then came here to ask what I should buy to add to the starter crew box.  The new plastic set you're looking at is so much more complete compared to the old metals.  For the M&SU crew back then, you got Ramos, Howard Langston, and a pair of SteamPunk Arachnid swarms.  I picked up Joss, an Electrical Creation and Brass Arachnid on that advice, which is what you get now in one package.

 

From there I added a couple more Arcanist masters that all have minons that work well with each other (Kaeris and Mei Feng) and picked up an LSA, Johann and more recently, metal gamin, and have a Rail Golem on order.

 

Your mileage may vary, but what you're doing is pretty much what I did way back when.

 

Typically with Ramos, you will be wanting to bring in some small low cost constructs to run objectives and to start producing scrap counters to begin the spider factory.  And you'll want to also take an assortment of minions, enforcers and henchmen to back them up.  Ramos' crew lacks fire power, which is why I've always liked bringing 1 or 2 Gunsmiths if the soul stones allow.  I will almost always bring Howie since I just like the model and what he can do to my opponent's minions, the decapitate trigger is a great way of forcing your opponent to discard their control hand and with a 3" engagement range, he can hold down a solid chunk of the board if your playing the area denial game.

 

I take Imbued Protection on Howie to keep him alive and punching longer and I take Bleeding Edge Tech on Joss most of the time so he can help keep the spiders in the game.  The upgrades on Ramos change from game to game based on schemes, and which small constructs get bought up front changes as well.  The metal gamin have been fun, especially as body guards for Ramos himself.  But the spiders and Howie tend to be the game winners for me.  The Swarm's ability to clear out your opponent's scheme markers are a great way to thwart their plans.  And the latch on ability of the single spiders let your whole gang punch above their weight class.

 

I guess what I'm getting at, is that the crew box is all you really need to to get a feel for Ramos, the first add-on I would suggest is another box or two of arachnids, how many depends on whether or not you model them with magnets or not.  After that opinions diverge.

 

-DavicusPrime

[Fenton Crack]

While I would agree that pre-built lists do not work very well in Malifaux, because the strats and schemes along with the opponents faction will dictate some choices much better than others, when you are just starting out you will likely have to "pre-build" by virtue of the fact you have no other models.

My suggestions were based off the presumption that Pyro Gremlin will be starting with the MS &U box, and not much else, which is often the case for those just starting out, or in a fixed faction growth league and the like.

Once, one jumps on with both feet and starts grabbing more models, the choices available make a precon all-comers list an unrealistic, and perhaps impossible, goal.

However, in my experience you can still prevails your core, or several of them, along with more specialized groups to swap in and out for crew selection, with then just a couple at large stones to spend on a cheap model, an extra upgrade, or an increased cache.

For example, one of my generic cores is Ramos with Bleeding Edge Tech, Joss with Imbued Energies, an an Electrical Creation.

Ramos with BET since I'll always be making spiders and want them to heal; Joss with IE because Joss always produces scrap upon killing a model (and maybe 2) and IE is great to give Fast to help him kill even better than he already does with ability ignoring arc axes, and if I lose him despite Hard to Kill, if I haven't used the upgrade, Ramos draws cards; the EC is from the Mythic Fox opening to move Ramos for a zero and provide scrap to start summoning.

If I flip strats like Reckoning, I'll consider Howard as more kill power for heavies, also with IE.

If I flip Reconnoiter, I'll consider an extra spider for a head start and the Soulstone Miner to pop up at the end of the turn to take a quadrant.

Turf War will have me take more upgrades on Ramos like Field Generator to buff the Df of the central spider horde, and if not taking Arcane Reservoir, maybe Under Pressure or Combat Mechanic.

Squatters Rights I'm likely to take LITS as well since I'm going to be running the centerline anyway. Spiders already have Ramos ahead of the game here, but I'll also grow in a Moleman or two for any marker dropping objectives that are not too far upfield. Union a Miners can also dominate in that situation with the ability to chuck out two markers, as even if one one can remain at turns end, it's both insurance if the opponent is eating them, and the extra can always be positioned for a Moleman Tunneling node.

Metal Gamin I find good both for holding steady on the centerline for the previous objectives, and are also ideal for protect territory since they can just park near a marker and go Df while handing out Protection of Metal to themselves. They can also mag dying friendless to both move up for a zero, but also make scrap for Ramos, and if they are going to be nearby him to provide a scrap, they might as well boost his pitiful DF.

I guess I am rambling at this point and I'm sure checking out Pull My Finger would be more useful than my random observations, but I just wanted to pointing out that Ramos' box brings a decent amount of diversity with the simple addition of just a model or two.

Eventually you will amass many models, some more specialized than others, but in the meantime, I would not be afraid to just try to optimize the crew box as a "fixed list", and just change the upgrades to try to both tailor the crew to the strats and schemes, and to try them all out. It will both give you a sense if the strengths of the models you already have, as well as make apparent what the holes in your crew are do you can prioritize getting models you feel would best fill them.

[Fenton Crack]

Hah, ninja'ed by Davicus, with good advice.

[pyro gremlin]

Thanks for advice guys both got me thinking of what to buy next as i only have the M&SU box and the mobile toolkit atm but from yhe advice ive been given i shall be ordering 1 electrical creation ,2 more boxes of arachnid spiders, metal gamim box, rail golem maybe more but think that should be a good start from all the advice ive had

[Baalbamoth]

Just played Ramos 3 games last night... will just say metal gamin fare a LOT better as main line troops than additional spiders do...

combined with Lazarus's self healing, combat mechanic, and bleeding edge tech upgrades they were magnitizing all over the place completing objectives and I think only one got killed in three games.... they are really great at tieing up oponents slowing them down for the spider factory/crawling iron wall of doom to ramp up production.... decided three are not enough for a 40 pt game... want moar!

[mythicFOX]

lol.

 

They're great but I think once you hire more than two of anything you get rapidly diminishing returns.

[osoi]

I agree, I tend to max on pairs of any one type of model

[Wessex]

What's a Mythic Fox opening when it's at home?

I just ordered M&SU as my first crew today, will get some more spiders for sure after a few games. I just hope the electric creation is released quickly after gencon.

[rythos42]

I'm wondering why folks are still looking at the Electric Creation? From what I see, the Mobile Toolkit not only saves you 1ss but also doesn't have an explosion you have to organize around. 

[Bengt]

I'm wondering why folks are still looking at the Electric Creation? From what I see, the Mobile Toolkit not only saves you 1ss but also doesn't have an explosion you have to organize around. 

Electric Creation is a bit easier to kill I guess. If you activate it first, it will have 2 wounds and no armour. A lot of things would need 2 ap to kill the Toolkit (Joss easily one shot it though if you want two scrap).

[Wessex]

I was only looking at it because it seemed to be in a lot of Ramos builds as token scrap marker. I kind of like the idea that whilst I'm learning the game and the various scenario possibilities that I have Ramos and Electric Creation as a core of sorts that I can mesh other stuff onto.

[rythos42]

I guess if you didn't want to use Joss to kill it, yeah. Personally, I don't mind using him to ensure that I have Scrap for 2 turns. Last game I played I had Killjoy waiting and my opponent didn't want to kill my Spiders, now for two reasons!

 

Wessex, my question was just because most of those Ramos builds are from before Wave 2 was started (or finished) and the Mobile Toolkit wasn't an option. Now that it is, it seemed like an easy choice to go with the MT over the EC just because of the soulstone savings. Why pay 4ss for something you're going to kill in the first round, when you could pay 3ss instead . But if you aren't killing it with Joss, then it'll take an extra AP to take out the MT, as Bengt points out.

[Dead Dingo]

Just a thought...

 

Hire some Convict Gunslingers for range attack.

 

Killjoy to Bodyguard Ramos.

 

Add some Steam Arachnid Swarms...and stir.

 

D.D.

[Sybarite]

Convicts for 8ss dont seem very tempting :/ or am i wrong? Why them instead of gunsmiths or acolytes?